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Confused...H appears to be but I'm not. I want my marriage. I want my real H back. Him? He's made his so-called decision to leave me and our life behind. Today, I had another wedding shower to go at 11:00 a.m.. He comes over earlier. When I return, D is sleeping...he says, "You look really good...are you in for...?"
I say no. He says, "Don't worry. You look good. I'm the one that's losing. Not you." I tell him, "We're both losers." <p>Re:not telling our friends and other family, he says he's just not ready!!?? After Christmas, he says.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong><p>Re:not telling our friends and other family, he says he's just not ready!!?? After Christmas, he says.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Why not in 2024, since the main goal here is AVOIDANCE. <p>Who is EVER ready to face the consequences of bad choices?? Everybody likes to take the path of least resistance, but avoiding the inevitable will not make it easier, but much harder on everyone concerned to HIDE. Another burden for you to bear to compensate for his shortcomings.

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If there is nothing wrong with leaving his wife and children then there is nothing TO hide. If there IS something wrong with it - which his actions indicate - then why is he doing it?

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Hi ML, Good to hear from you...I agree wholeheartedly but I can't tell my H that. It would be consider trying to educate him...LB in his mind. <p>I just pray he comes to that conclusion on his own.

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Hi T,<p>One thing that is so hard to take about our spouses turning into Aliens in a FOGGED Fantasy is that they become unbelievably selfish, self centered, self asborbed, self involved and intolerably narcisstic.<p>Their taker is dominant, with giver almost non-existent. <p>BUT .... deep inside, he knows what he's doing isn't right. Otherwise why hide it.<p>Strength to you Honey.<p>Lv,
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong>Hi ML, Good to hear from you...I agree wholeheartedly but I can't tell my H that. It would be consider trying to educate him...LB in his mind. <p>I just pray he comes to that conclusion on his own.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>well, I will leave the lovebuster managment to you -that is definately my downfall! I tried to beat up my last husband on the side of a busy road while wearing a business suit. I guess I am probably the QUEEN of LB!

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I had to get in on this one, because I've been there!!!<p>Directly after Dday, I phoned all of our friends. My main reason for this was to ensure my H had friends who would be there for him. Knowing that he isn't the type of person to jump up and scream that he needed help, I figured I would let our friends know so that they could be there for him. <p>As it turned out, they were there for both of us. While none of them have "taken sides", they have all been terrific support for both my H and I. At the same time they have made it perfectly clear to my H that they do not agree with what he is doing, how he is handling the situation, how he is treating me and that they are not impressed with his Ostrich impression. <p>His family, however, is another story.<p>
A few weeks after Dday, I wanted to go stay with my H's Aunt for a few days (we're very good friends); just to get away and clear my head. This meant I had to tell her about what happened. I was also at the point of reaching out to anyone and everyone I could for advice. Anyway, long story short, I told her, she told H's Mother, H's Mother told H's Father and before I knew it, everyone was calling H saying things like "what the h*ll do you think you're doing? How dare you run out on your marriage. That woman is NOT welcome in our homes or our lives" ect... I'm sure you get the picture. Despite me asking them all not to call and yell at him, they did it anyway. <p>Now, I'm being totally honest here. I felt good about this at the time. I had felt for a long time that I was crazy in thinking that what he was doing was wrong. I even entertained the idea that if I love him, then I should believe that he deserves to be happy and if that is with OW, then so be it. But after speaking w/ friends and family, and discovering this site, I began to realise what was *really* happening. H was only hearing *my* opinion on what he was doing, and even then he wasn't really hearing me. I was Plan A'ing without realising it, and therefore he probably felt quite justified and felt as if I supported his decision to have an A. After the barrage of insults from his family, I'm sure he began to think twice. <p>He wasn't happy with me that I told his Aunt, since it set off the chain of events with his family.They all eventually calmed down and did reach out to him letting him know that they are there to talk if he needs them. <p>So hindsight time. No, I really shouldn't have told them without discussing it with him first. (Major LB!!!) But I really did need somewhere to go to escape and I felt his Aunt's house was the best place. But the results of my "outing" the A didn't help my H at all.<p>I guess what worries me in this is that none of your friends/family know what's happening. Do you have any support apart from this board? If no one knows, and this is the only place you come to vent or rejoice, then that worries me. But I guess that's a very personal thing, as well. I know, for me, I could not have gotten to where I am now without my friends and family to talk to, cry to, scream to, and smile at. <p>So I have no advice, really. Just wanted to share my story of the friends/family issue with you. You have to do what feels right for you. If you feel you need the support of your friends/family, then go for it. If you think you can carry on without anyone knowing, then do that. <p>Whatever you decide - be strong. <p>lots of love
venusenvy

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Hello Jo, He's definitely a HUGE taker right now...said he's given all these years without anything in return so it's payback time according to the NEW H. I hope the deep inside part takes over sometime. He really is a good guy underneath all of this. Take care.<p>Hello ML, Don't think you're the only LB'er...I've done my share of the most embarassing things but you live, LB and learn. <p>Hello Venus, In a strange way, I'm thankful he's not ready to tell. I know it's the hopeful side of me wishing he doesn't want to tell because he may change his mind about all this but I know the truth is that he's protecting himself. I made a decision to keep quiet BUT I must admit it's a lonely one. I hope you're doing well.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>One thing that is so hard to take about our spouses turning into Aliens in a FOGGED Fantasy is that they become unbelievably selfish, self centered, self asborbed, self involved and intolerably narcisstic.<p>Their taker is dominant, with giver almost non-existent. <p>BUT .... deep inside, he knows what he's doing isn't right. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Jo,
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!<p>I have been trying to reconcile this ALIEN with my real life H for all this time!! This person is just totally UNLIKE my "real H" who is NOTHING if not a GIVER........this - this - "person" who is doing NOTHING except take, take, TAKE....I just don't know this alien. I can not fathom the depths of TAKING he is doing.<p>I didn't know he had it in him to TAKE from everyone like this, and for so long. Do they ever emerge from this "condition?"<p>Didn't mean to hijack your thread, Terri, but this just hit me "right between the eyes."<p>Lupo

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My Goodness Lupo .... You are very welcome!<p>When my XH and I were still together during the FOG days, he said he knew he was being grossly selfish, but said he couldn't help it. <p>He asked me if I was disgusted with him and also said "I'm pathetic, aren't I?"<p>What puzzles me is, if he thought this of himself, how can he have thought what he was doing to be right???<p>Jo

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Terri,
How are you?! Hope you had a good T-Day?!
Telling friends? Tough one! -- I can see where your H would want to postpone the embarrassment, or perhaps he has some idea you & he will reconcile by then. Or, is he waiting for this OP to get back into the states or is he still trying to assess where he is with her & hopes to get that resolved one way or the other by first of year? Like others have pointed out, all that we hear, it seems he is somewhat committed to what suits him best & I would assume this same motivation exist on this request.
I know that in my situation, in that this was a second bust & later as I thought about things there could have been other PA's, but primarily based on how she described these things, there was no doubt in my mind that I was sending her back home -- She did not want to leave -- she wanted to make it look good to friends and neighbors & not suffer any public embarassment. I understand this. We only had two couples friends that we did a lot of things with -- in my mind she decieved them as well. She had told her boss she was thinking of leaving me & her boss had directly asked her if she was having an A & my W lied to her. My W's closest friend was her cousin's wife & they had many discussions about me & marriage & she was crushed that my W could do such a thing & she felt very betrayed & their relationship is still not what it used to be. These are the ones outside the immediate family & our Pastor that she told. I did not tell my family for first couple weeks she was away, then I decided that regardless of outcome, it was just not right to not tell my immediate family -- I will add that virtually everyone was/is extremely supportive!
I can see an advantage to not telling friends in that if you reconcile, it could perhaps be smoother for him & he avoids some embarrassment.<p>On the other hand, I believe it is the secrecy of A's that allows the A's to thrive -- cake and eat it too thing! If you reconcile, & let's assume that for the moment, I believe it is important to continue to receive support & prayers from your close friends. Let's be honest, a true recovery will take a long time & I think a measure of true friendship is communication with honesty -- can you imagine how a close friend will feel when they find out 6 weeks to 3 months after the fact -- I would think this would put a big strain on friendship --to me it would be a clear indicator that there was not a close relationship. If a recovery is to occur I would think openness & honesty needs to be an important part of that -- if we're not open & honest at least with some generalities, with our close friends, IMO, this is a henderence to recovery -- Yes, there is some pain with this for the WS. Without any felt consequences, I think this seems like a "cover-up" which IMO, seems to act as a reinforcement for future misconducts -- we appear as enablers.
If on the other hand, you feel recovery is not happening, then his desire to stall the ineveitable serves no real purpose -- from my vantage point at least --
When to tell friends does in fact seem to be avoiding the real issues -- what about you & he's relationship -- isn't that more important than whether close friends know or don't know. Is he still saying it's over, and let's waite to tell friends? What are you telling friends -- we're having difficulties and seperated or we're D ing and seperated until final? Dosen't sound like it has come to the last point, so I don't see importance of keeping this a secret, for close friends, I mean you are not putting this in the church bulliten or to have it broad cast on TV & radio -- these are supposed to be close friends, right? The guys console with H & gals with you --that is what friends are for!
Perhaps, keeping his feet to the coals is best choice. I would be surprised that if these are close friends, don't you think they have suspions? I suspect perhaps they do -- why decieve them? Isn't it this deceptive behavior pattern what we're trying to come to grips with --That's his program, yu can't be responsible for him -- Taking responsibility for our actions & feeling some consequences for bad choices is a part of this -- Isn't this a lesson we would want to teach our children -- to continually protect them (our children) & never have them feel any consequences for bad choices is perhaps not the best thing --In my mind, Doesn't build strong charactor. Funny, we're back to child like behavior patterns aren't we? FOGGED IN!!
I don't know all the answers, like I've said before, but as I think about this, it appears to me that he is now asking you to cover up for his bad choices! What is wrong with this picture -- just does not pass the smell test for me. Are these people ones that you want to have a good, ongoing, close realationship with -- deceptive action over a period of time, to me, is not a good way to treat a relationship. Does he intend to try & alienate you from them -- perhaps my parania here, but another thought Ijust had is that if he knows you are telling, this perhaps gives him opportunity to make up his stories to tell them. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Another perspective that came to mind. Particularily since it seems that he is not being remorsefull or asking for recovery, if push comes to shove, one approach could be that he made his choices, you have every right to make your own choices; I mean these are your friends as well aren't they? Perhaps he has to learn a bitter lesson that because of his choices, he has given up these control tactics over you. If we are real frank & hard in looking at the facts here -- He has treated you with the uptmost dis-respect & has shown no real remorse & he wants you to help him "cover this up" [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
It does happen -- we have to be strong -- did this sound a little like a Dobson perspective? <p>Keep up the good work & focus on you!
Hope I did not confuse issue!
Love & prayers,
HH<p>[ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

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T --
The holidays is a time when you are forced to see and spend time with friends and family.<p>Your H is probably feeling a lot of pressure right now.<p>I don't know what to tell you, cuz I see this playing out a couple of ways.<p>First, how does he seem to be responding to your plan B?<p>That should tell you a lot.

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He wants to keep things "rosy" from the outside, and not face consequences. My personal bias is to bring the A and the resulting mess to the light of day. I don't think it buys anything to allow it to continue without facing reality.<p>Take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I did a long Plan A, then Plan B, but that was very difficult with small children, so I drifted to a Plan nothing where I now have no interest in my wife, who continues with her OM.<p>I allowed things to remain quiet for a long time, but sometimes I wish I had not done so, because she has lived a phoney life all along, spinning her stories to pretend there was never an A, and apparently now they are "just starting to date". So there is my bias coming through.<p>He wants a nice Christmas with no flaws....meanwhile you are alone in this. I hope you do well.

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Hello HH, I hope you had a good Thanksgiving. You sound good. Re:telling friends, I can honestly say I'm not sure where my H's head is at...in my heart I know it's because he's not willing to face the music. Even if people know NOTHING of the A, they will react very negatively to our separation. In all the years we've been together, I've NEVER complained to anyone about him or our marriage nor has he. Therefore, he knows people will be SHOCKED. <p>I also agree with you on the secrecy of the A being an enabler...I just don't know what to do. I definitely don't want to be the one to tell our friends. I think he needs to be the one but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. He just repeated tonight that he's just not ready.<p>Hi Lex, Plan B has been slightly modified due to the latest sequence of events...however, he's still angry and blaming me for everything that has happened. He looks terrible, is miserable and won't talk to anyone about this. Honestly, I'm worried about him.<p>Hi R37, What you've described has crossed my mind but I'm just not ready to go public.
Thanks to all for your responses.

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Terrified,<p>I don't want to dump snow on your parade by envisioning the worst of the worst, but should your H decide to tell everyone after the holidays, make sure that "everyone" knows the truth, and not just his version of it. I'm sure that your H is not a heartless man, but a WS will do and say anything to protect their image, sometimes projecting the lion's share of the blame on the BS. <p>If this does happen, make sure his story is accurate. I didn't say a word to anyone of our mutual friends and a lot of family during H's A. I now wish that I would have at least told them that we were living apart because he was having an A. <p>belld

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Terri,
You sound good,(relatively speaking of course) as well.
I had another thought -- to keep some idea of honesty with close friends, one option would be to tell them you are seperated because of personal differences -- cope out of sorts, but at least it is a start, so it could eliminate dancing around with phone calls and party plans & the like -- [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
It would eventually come out I'm sure & some will likely figure it out -- when it is he that is living apart, many will assume it is he that screwed up -- that is his point of not telling -- but it is not fair to you if you are getting calls at home & having to tell stories -- you don't need the extra tension that is sure to bring.<p>This is perhaps another indication of where he is with you. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I would think he should start coming around some, but if not, he is either a very proud, stuborn guy or he is truely planning to leave (emphaisis on "Planning" but he's not sure) -- If you are not getting calls and not having to make up stories & you are not stressed about this all that much, then perhaps you let it rest for a while -- Perhaps you should schedule another session this week with your counselor, then if counselor agrees, it is not just you wanting to create aditional pain or from your H's point of view, go on a crusade to destroy his reputatuion kind of thing, it is just being fair. I am just imagining this might be a response from him, if you proceed with telling a few of your close friends -- I don't sense it has gotten to this kind of sernerio, but I'm just thinking of possible responses from him & so you might be better prepared as to how to offset it if it does come up.

I'm curious, did you get the James Dobson book? are any of your readings helping you establish a strategy?
I am a little concerned that if he has not asked for a resolution or a time frame or shown any signs of remorse, perhaps another strategy is appropiate -- I've lost track of the time he has been out of the house -- perhaps I'm beeing too anxious here? These things do take time! Am I correct that he has not specifically asked for a divorce. This whole thing could be his immature way of asking for more attention, but he's played his cards & it is up to him to make definate move for resolution.
If practical, considering the sensativity and the issues, do you think a once a week visit to counselor is appropiate for a while? Not that you are doing bad, but that it could help solidify some sound strategies.
In speaking about these friends, I think you are justified to speak with one of your female freinds about this -- I mean the more I think of this, it is totaling controling & unfair for your H to require silence from you to your best friend, for example -- you can insist on confidentiality from friend & ask that she not tell her H (although we know that many times this is hard, if they have open & honest relationship). For myself, I think it definately helps to talk to a friend ...your choice though, if you want to, not what your H dictates. I think this is common to talk with a friend, what are friends for?! This may sound unfair, but I would consider calling friend without telling your H -- sounds hypocritical I know when we ask our S to be open & honest - but lets face it, that is not how our S's (I know that mine has not embraced this concept -- she sees it as too controling for her!) are operating & why should we follow rules or guidelines that they have not bought into -- Just a thought.
As others have pointed out, the WS tend to spin their own tale to protect their image -- Who is to say he has not already droped a few things with these friends to set the stage for his account of matters? I know you said that has not happened in the past.
My DW once quoted something when it supported her point -- very trite -- "all is fair in love & war"
What can he do? He has not threatened any kind of violence has he? He has been consistent about his intentions to leave you. If you sense he is softening a bite, perhaps holding off won't hurt, but try to focus on how you feel about it.
To conclude, if you don't feel a need to share with a friend, and the little cover ups are not a problem for you, then perhaps this is not a big deal. Otherwise, I say, call a friend!
Hang in there & keep us updated!
HH

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Let it rip. Tell friends tell neighbors tell family. This is for your sanity not for his convenience. Wait til after the Holidays??? Screw him! He should get a taste of reality now. LB?...maybe, but the Taker is viscous and deceitful and looks out for one person only. <p>I know this may be contrary to the 'Plan' but I just can't take this crap anymore. I may also be in a different place than you are but I thought I would 'vent' my opinion.<p>I wish you good luck, whatever you decide to do.<p>WW4L

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{{{ Terri }}}}
OK, Perhaps all is well (again, relatively speaking) -- I hope!
Just wanted you to know that we're still here for you! BABE! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
I hope you have been able to take a small time out actually. I know your guy has been a real bear and please remember -- it is not your fault! -in certian ways, he is sick. ... FOG
That support group I mentioned does not require any qualifications as such to get online. I'm sure the SA sounds way too strong for your H -- but infidelity is the key common ingrediant with people in this group & the focus is not to talk about our S, but to talk about us & our sickness which is a part of all this.
If you care to email me: bhurrican@yahoo.com
HUGS, [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
HH

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Hi HH, Always so good to hear from you checking in...for some reason, I've been better this week. I'm not sure if I've just become more accustomed to my H being gone or just happy that I don't have to deal with his daily broodiness. It could be even the fact that I decided to attend a business conference starting this weekend(I've become so lacklustre in my career and have only travelled once this year). Or could I be in denial? I worry about that one. <p>This week has been a "nice" week for H and I. I haven't talked about our relationship at all and H has been fairly cooperative and conversational. He still wants me to lie to his parents about where he is...<p>Thanks for your email HH. You're a special person and you've helped me to survive each day.

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Good for you on the conference!<p>Are you gonna be in contact with him while you are gone?? I know Miss Priss had quite the experience with jealous H while she went on a trip! Maybe this will be an eye opener for him!<p>And I would say NO to lying to the in-laws. Tell him you won't make a point of telling, but you won't LIE for him.<p>Take care -- and have a GREAT time at the conference!

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