If you are truly sorry for something you have done -- why not come out and say that it
was wrong?<p>I honestly don&#8217;t understand this. He is &#8220;sorry he hurt me,&#8221; and &#8220;sorry he spent time on
Them that should have gone to me,&#8221; but he will not say that what happened between him
and his women friends at work was wrong.<p>This is not just a matter of semantics. It would mean a great deal to me to hear him say
that it was wrong, ALL of it, and that these women are NOT wonderful people but just a
bunch of skanks who did their level best to get their hooks into a married man -- and
treated his wife like dirt in the process.<p>It&#8217;s as if I suddenly went nuts and demanded that he stop wearing brown socks. Now, he
doesn&#8217;t see anything wrong at all with wearing brown socks, but if that&#8217;s what it takes to
make me happy then that&#8217;s what he&#8217;ll do. But don&#8217;t expect him to say that there&#8217;s
anything the least bit wrong with wearing brown socks. He&#8217;s just stopped wearing them
to keep me quiet.<p>My only consolation is that at least he&#8217;s not lying about it. But it still makes me feel like
nothing. All this time, all this battling, and I am still losing out to Them.

I know I may hear it from a few on this.....but....just because you are truly sorry for something does not mean that what you did was wrong. Nobody wants to admit that what they did was wrong....especially a WS....and it may not even look wrong to them. It's something that they wanted.....and in the throws of an A....their taker is in control. They can do no wrong...and they convince themselves of that.<p>Your WH is probably thinking this way......I am truly sorry for hurting my wife but what I did wasn't really wrong.....but it wasn't right either. In the "fog" and during withdrawl...right and wrong don't really exist....and for some time after either.....it takes time. <p>Have you ever asked him if he thought what he did was the "right" thing to do?<p>My WH has never said what he did was wrong....but he will admit that it wasn't right.<p>Maybe he just needs time on this one.<p>I think it's an ego thing with SOME men....not all. When my WH told me that it wasn't right....but couldn't admit that it was wrong....I knew that it would hurt his ego for him to admit to doing something wrong...so that was his way of letting me know that he knew it was wrong....without making himself feel worse about it.

I believe that in some cases people do not say that they were/are wrong because they do not feel that they were wrong.<p>Perhaps he is only sorry that his actions hurt you, not that he did them? Or sorry that he got caught?<p>I assume you have read the SSA book. In it Dr. Harley says that many people who stray feel entitiled. Presumablly this is because their spouse is not meeting their needs. And remember, sometimes a person has needs that are not listed in the SSA book. Sometimes their needs include feeling like the big cheese and all powerful OZ. This is something that any one person cannot fulfill. It will take a mind shift on the part of the WS?<p>It does seem that you are getting somewhere in that he aleast acknowledges that his actions hurt you. Has he filled out the EN questionaire? Have you been Plan A'ing him? My bet is that your H has a very high need for admiration. <p>Z

<<<Have you ever asked him if he thought what he did was the "right" thing to do?>>><p>Heh - good question - I think I'll run that one by him and see what he says.<p>This bothers me tremendously because no, I DON'T think you can truly be sorry for doing something when you believe deep down that there was not one thing wrong with what you did. <p>He insists that these women were NOT girlfriends even though they would spend hours together talking about her personal life; that driving out alone with one of them in his car for a 1-1/2 hour lunch, and not telling me, is NOT a date; that forgetting to mention his visits to strip bars is NOT lying to me, etc etc etc.<p>He still seems utterly, totally clueless to the fact that a married man is not supposed to behave this way, and CANNOT understand why I would get upset about it.<p>I'm just about ready to give up. I'm truly despairing that I will ever get through to him.
He is very good to me when he is home, but the minute he walks out the door he stops being married. And it has been that way for a very long time.

<<<Sometimes their needs include feeling like the big cheese and all powerful OZ. This is something that any one person cannot fulfill. It will take a mind shift on the part of the WS?>>><p>You are 100% correct on this. That is him to a "T."<p>There was never any problem with us at home. We have always had a very good relationship there. But once he started working for a big corporation, and found out how much attention he could get from the office bimboes and how much the company would reward him for it (and believe me, they do,) he was like a kid in a candy store.<p>He never looked back. Life was GREAT. The wife at home, babes and endless attention at work, strippers on the road! And most of the time, the company PAYS for him to go out with the babes (they call it "Teambuilding" *spit*) and PAYS for the road trips!<p>I'm the one who paid the *real* price. It has been harder than h*ll to get his attention on this. He is "sorry he hurt me," now that I've spent a year screaming and throwing things instead of suffering in silence and telling myself to look the other way - but that's all.<p>And for the record, talking reasonably to him about how this made me feel did absolutely nothing. I think it just added to the rush to think that Wifey might be a little jealous and would have to work harder to keep him, if you know what I mean.<p>You are right, and I have known for a long time, that this huge and endless desire for attention and ego-gratification is not something that any one person could ever fulfill. So what can I do about it?<p>I feel as though he has never fully committed to our marriage - not once he walks out the door to go to work. Things are great at home (or used to be, until I stopped being a doormat,) but are completely different at work.<p>Yes, he would have to go through a complete mind-shift in order to be a full-time husband instead of just a part-time one. I can't make him do that. So what's the answer?

It sounds to me like he is not ready to give up this behavior. So you do have some decisions to make.<p>Before you can decide on your direction, you need to know your options. <p>What are the answers to these questions?
You have some choices to make.<p>Do you really have enough information to know what he is really up to? Are you relying solely on his word that he is not having an affair, or affairs? If you are, I would be very reluctant to believe it. Sorry for saying that. I don't want to make trouble, but that is how I feel. You really need to have some very solid information to help you make your decisions. <p>Are you willing to leave him?<p>How much of his antics are you willing to put up with for the sake of security and to continue your marriage.<p>Once you have determined your boundaries, then you need to tell him what you expect. If he is not willing to give up his behavior, then perhaps Plan B is your answer.<p>Of course, if you want to save your marriage, then you will want to do a very good Plan A before you tell him what you want. <p>Don't you just love the way corporations make this "playing around" so easy. Many people take jobs that keep them traveling so that they can lead double lives. <p>Here's my mean solution... get him fired so he is no longer "big cheese". Of course he could never know that it was you who did it. And your personal financial situation might suffer terribly. <p>It is obvious that your H does not really care about your feelings. Any married man who truly respects and cares for his wife would not behave in this manner. So you are the one who has to protect yourself.<p>Take care of yourself first and foremost. Get a complete make over. Join a spa and workout if you are not already doing this. Start wearing new perfume.. Make him wonder. Join some groups that are very active. Get busy so that when he is not around you do not feel so abandoned. Yes, this may lead you away from him. But is it not where he is pushing you... whether or not he knows it.<p>Strive to grow as person. Have you done the soul searching and talking with him to determine exactly what your contribution is to the current state of your marriage? Have you asked him about his EN’s? Do these, then work on yourself to be better able to meet his needs and to improve yourself.<p>How would he react if you were not home when he expected you to be? If you behaved in a manner 180 degrees from what he expects? If you did not do the things he has come to rely on you for? Who does his laundry? Sends his shirts to the dry cleaners? Etc? If it’s you, just stop it. Surprise him and join him on a business trip. (If you do this.. .be sure to have a plan if you find out that he is up so something.) At the same time you are doing this be sure to be as gracious, loving, and Plan A’ing and no LB’s.<p>Even if all of this does not change him or his behavior. It will change you and your relationship. If one partner changes, then the relationship is forced to change. Though where it will go you only have partial control over.<p>Do whatever it takes you make you feel back in control of yourself and less at his mercy. <p>Not sure if this helped.<p>Z

I think it should help alot zorweb, that was great advice.