No emails from H first thing this morning, so I sent one just saying hi and telling him about how great my weekend was, ect...Got one back saying "my weekend was pretty good. Bought you one of your Christmas prezzies this weekend!". <p>Very interesting, Mr. Bond. <p>Took it a bit further when he rang. Tried to bite my lip, but HAD to know. Did he have sex with her this weekend? He says no. I asked if that was difficult for her and he said yes. I asked if he told her why he wasn't having sex with her and he said yes and that she thinks he should "move on". In other words, stop thinking about me and have sex with her. <p>Did I LB? Probably. But I got some fairly positive info out of it. <p>*He didn't shag her and told her WHY! Because of me. Because of his respect for ME! Wow. How must that make her feel? (like I care!)
* He bought a Christmas present for me while he was with her. Again, WOW!
* He said he thought about me while he was there. And nice thoughts, too. <p>So then I got off the phone and realised how furious I am with her. Now I know that she is pressuring him and that makes me SO angry! It's the one thing I've tried not to do to my H since in Plan A. But then on the flip side, is she LB'ing? Does he even care if she does?<p>Anyway, I sent him an email after our phone conversation that went something like this...<p>***********
Hi Honey,<p>Thanks for talking to me. I know you're busy and I don't want to interrupt you at work, but I'm glad you understand why I needed to ask what I asked.<p>I hope you understand how difficult this whole thing is on me. I'm trying my hardest to be the best person I can be in light of this whole situation. I feel I have made some incredible changes in myself over the past few months and I only want you to see those changes. But it's difficult for me to show you how far I've come when I don't get very much of your time. I also know that it's not my place to demand time from you, so I'm trying to be respectful and give you the space you asked for. I hope I have acheived that and I hope it's appreciated.<p>I didn't really say what I said on the phone the right way, but I'm trying not to demand things of you. I expressed that I didn't know if I could see
you this week, but looking back, it's not what I meant. I guess I am just wondering if you actually want to see me at all. My own insecurities enter into this, as they are expected to when I've been rejected the way I have. If you truly want to spend time with me, then I'm here, ready willing and able. But no pressure, no demands and no judgements. I am your friend, first and foremost.<p>Thank you for keeping your promise to me, as well. I find it interesting that OW said you should "move on". I guess the next question would be, is this because that's what she wants you to do, or what she thinks is best for you? Again, this goes back to her having her own agenda. Which is why I get so scared for you when you go to her at the weekends. I wonder what she says
about me to you. I wonder how she can form an opinion on what is best for you and I when she doesn't know me. That is what gets me scared. I'm also scared that she is pressuring you. You've expressed to me that you no longer want to be pressured, but I fear that is what she may be doing, based on her needs and wants. That's why I tell you to be careful, honey. You have told
me that you want space, time on your own, no pressure, no demands from people, ect...I've tried my hardest to give that to you out of respect and out of my love for you. But from where I'm standing, it doesn't look like
she's doing the same.<p>I hope you know, deep down in your heart that I'm not a horrible person. I hope you understand that I have accepted what I may have done to facilitate
our relationship problems and that I have been working on these issues with myself, and I will continue to do so. You didn't deserve to be treated that way, and I promise never to do that again. Those days and that behaviour are
over. Full stop. I just wish, so badly, that you would give me an opportunity to show you this. I think everyone deserves second chances - I
feel I'm no exception to that rule.<p>Take care and I love you.
****************************<p>Okay, let me have it. How did I do? He wasn't upset by the email. In fact he called me in the afternoon and we chatted about his family (because I seem to be the only person keeping in touch with them these days) and made plans to have a "date" on Wednesday night. <p>But I'm thinking I shouldn't be sending emails like this to him at work. In all honesty, I haven't sent him anything like this for a few weeks now, but after our conversation, I was so full of thoughts that I couldn't resist the temptation to share them with him. But that was the last one. <p>I guess I know the answers to my own concerns and questions, but need some validation here. My thoughts are; no more emails like that. No more q's about OW. No more judgements about OW. <p>So what do you all think?<p>Cheers!
venusenvy

You did very good with your phone convo and your email with one BIG glaring exception.<p>You should under no circumstances bring up OW, let alone diss OW to your H. The less said about her the better. Every time you bring her up, he thinks about her. And if you diss her, his natural instinct is to defend her and resent you for dissin her.<p>Other than that, Venus, you've been doing a stellar Plan A. Try your best to stop asking him about OW or discussing her in any way, just do your best. If he brings her up, just listen and answer in ambiguous ways ... example: "I see", "I understand" ... etc.<p>Jo [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

VE,<p>Thanks SO MUCH for your posts on my thread, thought I'd return the favor (truth and all [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>I have a question for you, has H ever mentioned to your knowledge about "neediness" or "clinginess" being a LB? If so, then much of your email MIGHT qualify. Otherwise I think it was fine, with the exception of what R has already pinned you on. It wouldn't appear that it was a problem if he called you later and was OK. <p>Steps in the right direction: respect for you, Christmas present, maybe a hug's next.<p>K

V<p>I think you did great. Sometime you have to mention OW. I did. That is how I got my WH to open up to me. Now today he was calling her stupid and a wh0re (i love it). <p>I think OW is putting pressure on him and that is a LB. He will tire of this. Believe me he will get real sick of her and stuff she says. My WH now sees the brain washing the OW did and how jealous of me she was. Your situation seems to be getting to this point.<p>Hang in there and stay strong.<p>
SLH

Thanks everyone. I guess I knew the answers all along, I just needed to hear it from those more experienced. I mean, this is all pretty fresh to me, still. <p>Resilient - yup, you're right. No more convos about OW. I do try - but sometimes my curiosity just gets the best of me! Yes, he does defend her. I went thru a phase of trying to "educate" him about the nature of A's; did this while he was knee-deep in b****rd-mode and it didn't do me a bit of good. Now that he's actually being nice to me again, I will still refrain from this as I know he still has feelings for her. <p>Kevco - thanks for your honesty and you have a very good point. While H hasn't actually come out and said that I'm needy or clingy, I feel it myself. He has said that he feels "mothered" (same thing?) sometimes, but I think this is two-fold. I do it, because he lets me and asks me to do things for him. Like when he was packing to move out, he had to ask me where we keep the sheets and towels. Then asked me how often he should change/wash them! This is from a man who went from living with his Mom, to living with his Aunt to living with me. His biggest goal at the moment is to live on his own and be independent, which is why he moved out. I am incredibly supportive of this, which is why it was so easy for me when he did move out. Yes, I miss him. But I don't miss cleaning up after him, washing his clothes, ect... I'm definitely dealing with the whole "mothering" thing in counselling and I will bring up the "needy" and "clingy" thing this week and try and work through that, as well. <p>Stilllovehim- I think you're right, as well. I often think to myself, "how long can she play this game?" meaning, eventually her facade will crack and he will start to see the real her. I guess it's just a matter of time before she begins to demand more, pressure him more and hopefully when she does, he'll run a mile. So far, it sounds like she's everything he's always wanted, but when her true colours start to show, I hope he's wise enough to see it. Everyone else spotted it straight away, of course. But the fog is thick. Someone get me a giant fan to clear it away!!!<p>Thanks again, everyone!
venusenvy

V,<p>I think your inner child is in need of some hugging [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <<<<<<hugs>>>>>>>>><p>I'll only add to what R said and say, don't mention the OW - I know it's difficult (very difficult at times) but if you can, keep away from the topic.<p>Couple of things are interesting here, he did prezzie shopping for you while with her - so he's THINKING about you in a nice way. Wonder what he got you ????<p>They didn't have sex !!!! - if this decision points to a platonic friendship and is the result of a mutual decision then the attraction in the relationship could be based on other needs. Perhaps companionship or something else - can you find out what it is? Comes back to the EN questionaire issue - any progress here?<p>talk later,<p>- Freddy

VE, I agree with what everyone else has said, especially what Resiliant said about not bringing up or dissing OW. That has been exactly my experience and I've learned to never start talking about her. The harder part is when WH brings her up, but I'm getting better at not taking the bait and turning into a big LBing session. It hurts so much when WH defends OW the way he should be defending and protecting me.<p>In spite of that general rule, it doesn't appear that you did any damage by bringing up OW this time. You've got a date set up, so it looks like progress is being made. Maybe the fog is starting to thin out. I hope so!<p>I don't think you should be angry about OW pressuring your H. Just the opposite. I'm always happy to get any inkling that OW may be putting on the pressure or making my WH's life miserable or unhappy in any way, because then I know she is LBing!