I know that I'm going to get some resounding NO's to that question, but let me explain why I'm even considering it.<p>WS is truly considering things, ALL things, and she still hasn't found the "inkling" that she's been looking for in order to try to save our marriage.....she's still hell bent on divorce.<p>Granted, she's in day 1 (really) of the "break" with OM. But I truly think she's been considering things in a LITTLE BIT of clarity. I was thinking maybe that "talking" with people who are GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING might help her. I've told her several times that I've seen stories JUST LIKE OURS....normally, we'd all consider this a LB, but I don't think so. She may roll her eyes, but she doesn't get pissed like when I DO LB.<p>I've told her that I'm a little aprehensive because of some of the vents that I've posted, but I guess I could go back and edit those out.<p>Really, you're the only people that I (and she would) know who can TRULY understand our trials and tribulations.<p>She said that MAYBE she'd be interested in speaking to people who could understand so she could ask questions like, "What did you do when you just plain DIDN'T feel like saving the marriage, what turned you around?"<p>I think I'd either quit posting, or more likely change my handle to something not quite so easy to identify (she'd pick it up in a New York second). Or maybe I'd post on some other forum (though I haven't found ANY like this one).<p>Tell me what you think.
Kev<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

Kev,<p> I think yes. Absolutely. The sooner the better.<p> jd

Hi Kevco,<p>Howz about sending her some of the posts here. You know other people's stories that may help her understand. My H read others and expressed deep sorrow for their story yet he was staunch about his A being soo different. Well I kept this up for most of my time here and he later commented on how he appreciated some of it. He thinks a few on here are nuts but then again I told him our own story is nuts..... LOL!!! He agreed (to a certain point). [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I e-mail stuff to my H. Maybe sharing (via e-mail some of the basic concepts stuff, portions of SAA book, emotional needs questionnaire, etc.) Not too much at one time though. You can lead a horse to water but don't drown them!!! <p>Anyway, that's my take. <p>L.

Kev,
You seem to be a stand up kind of guy & I did not get the impression there was very much you discussed here that you did not discuss with your W. And you speak of her with repsect.
I have seen a few couples here, they are normally working together towards recovery --
The only reservation I see is that she does not seem in agreement on objective to work on marriage -- she may try to learn about this to use it against you -- However, you seem very intelligent & knowledgeable about this stuff, so I don't think she could overpower you with this stuff.
Some of our feedback & maybe me in particualar with the references to Dobson and all may give away some important strategic ideas though?
Is she moving in?!
You know I have a weakness for affection. Is it possible for her to have those STD screens, not that your planning anything of course, [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] , but you are married & sometimes things happen! Just a precaution --
Hope it is working out for you!
HH<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

WS skimmed SAA and listened to the HNHN primer this past weekend. While she think the terms are pretty hokey (love bank, etc...) she thinks that the concepts make sense.<p>I've shared SOME posts from here, but I've been pretty careful to cut out the header with the URL, as well as my bi-line...a little too sarcastic about OB.<p>I'm sure that she thinks that I'm hand picking, or possibly even faking the posts (I doubt she thinks I'm faking them) to suit my own needs. And while I certainly wouldn't give her anything that hurts my cause, it might be important for her to see those too so that she can place some validity in the positive ones.<p>As much of a No No as education is supposed to be, she just told me that it's not a LB for me to share these. I'm leaning heavily towards giving her the site if she asks (she said she'd think about it). It's not like it'd be hard to figure out, she's read SAA and I think this site is noted in there, plus I'm positive she saw the T-shirt that I got when I ordered the two books. Not rocket science here.<p>We'll see.
K

Dobson, ER... HH,<p>Yeah, I was just thinking that it might steal my thunder when/if Plan B comes into effect, but I've already told her that I'm working on a countdown clock with the love I have for her and at some point I've got to just walk away....so she's already aware of that impending deadline, she just doesn't have any idea when it'll be (Neither do I really, though I have a guess).<p>You're absolutely correct, she's nowhere near (right now) working on reconciliation...as you know, she's going to spend the next couple of weeks determining if she even WANTS to try to reconcile.<p>Nope, she's not moving in. Actually, she'd pretty much talked herself out of that idea, though she said she would have had I requested it. She agrees that it'd be for the wrong reasons. But neither is she going to see any more of me, she might want to see LESS of me. I think I can even be ok with that for now, give me a chance to get away from thinking about her (in terms of is she coming over, what'll she say, etc...) and focus more completely on me.<p>She knows about the possibility of her girlfriend having contracted HPV via oral sex and then the possibility of her passing it to WS when they were playing around and lip kissing one drunken night(well a couple of them). I would hope that would be encouragement enough, but I'm not going to ask her to do it. <p>Anyway, there's NO WAY IN HELL she's going to have ANY kind of sexual relationship with me until she starts to have feelings for me again (if ever). And we're not even close to there...maybe if I see her start to soften, and she can commit to working on reconciliation, I'll bring it up then, but not before.<p>K

Kevco,<p>I'm still struggling with this personally, and I still haven't really led WS to post here. It seems like an easy decision for someone else though [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You don't have a lot to lose. She does need to know that there are lots of other people in exactly (well close) the same situation she's in. I would think if I were a WS, that seeing typical behaviour all mapped out would put my entire fairytale into black and white perspective. But most importantly, the feedback she gets is going to be from people who are interested in marriagebuilding - just what she needs to hear.

Kev,
For what it is worth, I agree with your idea of not having her move in & taking a time out -- not talking at all for two weeks would be an interesting test -- she would see it as a test for you -- if you could play it cool & not make any contact, it could be a good test for her -- for you see how she reacts to that. It sounds like you are ready to let the tiger out of the cage! Have your chair & whip ready! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] It could get interesting!
Take care & keep us updated,
HH<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Kev,<p>I vote "no", I don't think it's a good idea to have her come here. Things are still pretty unsure for you two, this is your place of support and safety. And regardless if you change your handle, she may want/need her privacy just as much as you need/want yours.<p>And I believe you two would eventually discover each other's handles by virtue of knowing each other so well.<p>Knowing she needs support help too, why don't you give her the books, SAA, Her Needs/His Needs and print up the EN Questionare, also print up the posts that most emmulate your story, but omit any reference to the URL to MB.<p>I really advise against it, Kev. I empathize with the idea she could benefit from it as much as you have, but the state of your marriage, as it is today, is not conducive for you both to be here. I truly believe it will backfire.<p>When you and she are "truly" *both* in recovery, then "YES", bring her here, in fact we'd insist on it. Timing, Kev and patience.<p>Sorry to be the Nay Sayer ... just have seen this happen way too many times, even with the best of intentions.<p>Jo

Kevco, one possible outcome you should consider involves the reception your wife might receive here. Most BS try to be civil, and some realy appreciate the WS point of view, especially if it isn't so foggy anymore. However, we've all seen foggy-headed WS post here and get blasted. Face it, there are so many bleeding and torn people here that reading a bunch of fog makes some of us rabid. What if your wife came here and got a hot-headed response from some wounded BS? Just worth a thought...<p>Rose Red

kev...been there...done that...have the t-shirt...she's way too deep in fog to come here yet...trust me...or just look up "efftupmylife" posts...(that's my H)...then look up "justaperson" and "justaperson2" (OW)...then "alittlelost" (OW's H)...it royally backfired on me...<p>I'd go with Orchid and just print out posts for her to read...<p>Let her read SAA...or even Diane Medved's "The Case Against Divorce."<p>Just my opinion

kevco,<p>my vote would also be a 'no' for a couple of reasons. Not only is this your place, where you get to hang out, vent, ask questions, and get support when you need it but check out the postings from WSs. <p>In general they don't really get that much empathy here and for obvious reasons. I'm not sure your W is ready to face up to the truth about her decisions - still way too much fog. At this point in your road to recovery the outcome may not be what you desire.<p>Perhaps it's better to hold off until you are an item again, some water has gone under the bridge and then introduce her here - that'll be about a year from now.<p>take care,<p>- Freddy

Freddy,<p>I won't be married in a year, not unless something drastic changes in WS feelings. My hope would be that she can get some of her questions answered about motivations for STAYING in the marriage. Right now, she has NONE. She doesn't think she has anything more than a friendship relationship for me and doesn't want to base a marital recovery on that.<p>I understand the possible negative feelings that she might get from some posters, but I think she'd be able to handle that, maybe.<p>All I DO know is that what we're doing doesn't appear to be working....I know that it really seems that I'm rushing things here, but frankly, >>>I'M<<< feeling rushed by her desire to get out of the marriage.<p>I don't know, I'll wait a little more before I make any decision. Maybe Steve will be able to give me some hope after their session next week.<p>K

Kev, why not try a posting for her? Write out her question in a way that expresses her feelings as best you can. Include the things that she says, even if you don't agree. Then ask for ideas about why to stay in the marriage. You can edit out responses from BS who obviously have their own axe to grind. Showing it to her would have the two-fold effect of getting some advice to her, plus by writing out her thoughts you would validate her feelings. Remember that marriage exercise of echoing each other's statements? It's great when they "get it."<p>Rose Red

Kev,<p>You haven't been using the MB Principals long enough to see any results. IMHO, you are being a bit impatient and, understandably, trying to rush this along, maybe even control it. A year is a very long time from now in terms of your WS's feelings. <p>Although we all think our situations are different then everyone else's on here, the fundamentals are all similar, almost identical in some aspects, and the Harley's methods are designed to work on those fundamentals.<p>I need to hit a meeting, but I will be back to tell you more reasons you should not bring your WS here.<p>Jo<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

UH, Does she really want to come here?
She is too foggy to WANT to come here unless she just wants to see what your writing.

Reason's NOT to bring your W here:

• She will think the Harley's methods are manipulative and designed to TRAP the WS into staying in a loveless marriage. (Plan A & Plan B) Every single WS that has come here (before they are ready to recover) at the urging of the BS has said this, without exception.
• She has a good chance of being blasted by BS here. Unfortuntely is does happen.
• She will read your prior posts and see things you may not have intended for her to see. And deleting the contents of your posts won't help as there are responses that may still tell her what you had possibly written.
• Once she comes here you can no longer be as frank about how you feel for fear you will offend her.
• She most likely will tell OM of this site (pls don't discount this, Kev) and once that happens all bets are off.

<p>Kev,<p>Why don't you setup counseling with Steve or Jenn instead. If your wife starts counseling with them she will start to see the value in your marriage beyond being just friends. <p>Jo

Kev: I'd have to agree with teh nay-sayers here... My W knows my screen name and it does have a limiting affect on what I write, even though I know she'll not even appraoch the forums.<p>I also know my W's reaction to this site. She was very enthused at first, she sent the link to me when we were still separated. Once she read the concepts section on infedelity, her attitude did a 180. Now just reading here is a huge LB, anything that even smacks of MB is discounted immediately. She doesn't want to hear what's said here, I'm thinking you're W won't either right now.

Resilient,<p>She knows about the MB principles, she skimmed SAA, and pretty much agrees with them, though she's a little skeptical.<p>I agree that I might not be able to be frank, but hopefully not. I explained that some of the posts that I've written here are pure vents, so as not to direct them at her. She genuinely seems to understand this.<p>I really get the feeling that she's not completely in the FOG, but that she's speaking her TRUE feelings. I know there's some FOG in there, because some of her logic is faulty, but I believe what her heart is saying.<p>
Long story short....you've talked me into it (for now). I'm not going to bring her here. I posted her questions FOR her, and hopefully she'll get some appropriate responses.<p>Incidentally, she has her first session with Steve next Tues, with me to follow on Friday. I pray that it helps. I'll think about saving the responses to my other thread until after Tues.<p>Thanks all, I suppose we can let this thread die.
Kev

You gotta be a pretty strong WS to hang out with this crowd.<p>And I think in a lot of circumstances it makes you defend your actions, justify them, and reinforce them -- not neccessarily the response you're looking for Kev.<p>Lot of bashing and disrespect happens -- lots of threads on "list the stupids things your WS does" which can be offensive to a WS. (I don't begrudge a BS the right to vent or even laugh about the situation -- anything goes.)<p>And also take into consideration that she may buy into the principals but with the thought in mind that she will use them in her relationship with OM.