This really sucks. I've been doing pretty good. H has been gone for two days now. He'll be back on Saturday.<p>I find myself getting SO, so mad at him, all throughout the day. I just feel like screaming and not talking to him. Then, he calls, and for some reason it makes me feel so much better. (which makes me mad too because I want to be mad at him).<p>He's back to Dr. Jekyll, so he's always real caring on the phone. He's called 5 times since he's been gone and is really doing a good job at telling me what he has been up to, etc. Asks what's wrong, listens to me complain about my horrific day (oh, those kids today!!), tells me he loves me and the special/sweet present he is going to buy me.<p>Then he hangs up, and my mind wanders. OW pops up, the A pops up, H's anger issue pops up, I have trouble sleeping. Even had an anxiety attack today. Haven't had one of those in a while. I was at work again. Hate it when it happens there.<p>I have been yelling at my H so much lately in the car on my commute to/from work, the people next to me must think I'm nuts. I've just been SO angry and so upset. All this resentment and anger is building up. All this stuff I have to talk to the counselor about (you know, my other posts)... But that is 8 days away.<p>All swimming around in my head making it hard to sleep, keeping me up, making me not want to clean this horrificly-messed up house.<p>Oh well... So anyone else around tonight and feel like chatting?<p>HbH

Sure, we've never chatted before. I could use a little conversation (besides the cats).<p>K

That is JUST the way my day has been today. Had this nice long post, and <poof> all gone cuz' the system logged me out and the BACK button doesn't restore what I had typed.<p>I tell ya...
HbH

I freaking HATE that....I've tried to make it a point to hilight everything and copy it to my clipboard just in case that happens. That way, if I get logged out, I can just log back in, paste, and away we go.<p>It's saved my butt several times! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Seems that all the WS have been quiet for the last day or so, I've seen (and posted) several threads that could use some WS input...but then again, I've seen a couple of WS BLASTED too, so I can't really blame 'em.<p>K

So anyway. How was your day? How many cats do you have? We have 3.<p>Been reading some of your posts but haven't caught up yet...<p>My day was horrendous. My almost 3-year old drove me nuts in the shoe store. I have this really bad cough, so when I try to yell / raise my voice, I end up in a coughing fit. Here are my 3 kids running up and down the aisles, trying on all the shoes, making a big mess, and I'm on the floor coughing up a lung.<p>Then we get to Walmart and the 3-year old books and hides down an aisle. Of course, I can't chase her because I'm lugging my 30-lb 18-month old. So, of course I send the 6 1/2 year old to go get her and they end up wrestling in the aisle and knocking all the toys over.<p>You should see my Christmas tree. I have rows of all unbreakable stuff on the lower two branches (from the 18-month old and the 3-year old). Then it's totally bare in the middle and the top has all the breakables (from the 6 1/2 year old thinking she's a big shot cuz' she can reach the top).<p>Pretty funny actually. H and I let the kids decorate it themselves this year. Does it look horrible? Yes, but it will be an interesting memory...<p>HbH

Sounds like you need one of those kiddy leash things that attaches to their wrists [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] . You GOTTA take pictures of that tree, it'll definitely be something to remember in future years.<p>We have two cats. One about 8 years old and pretty mellow, the other about 5-6 months old and a FREAK! He drives me nuts, especially since I'm here alone. You want a cat? I can mail him to you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, our tree looks similar it sounds like....all the nonbreakables are at the bottom so Max can play with them, GRRR.<p>I haven't put the lights on the tree, maybe I won't. I'll give him a few days to see how much he's going to mess with it. Actually, he's been pretty good so far. Last night was the first time he was messing with it that I know and wouldn't you know it, WS and I were having a semi-heavy discussion at the time.<p>Yeah, I can't understand why you haven't caught up on my posts, I only have like 300 in about 4 weeks, SHEESH. I've become affectionately known by a couple of folks here as the Energizer bunny on crack....kinda makes me giggle just to picture that.<p>K

Yeah, that's a good idea, I will try doing that from now on. It's really quite aggravating when it happens...<p>I am ordering a bunch of books online right now that people have suggested. I must have spend over $100 on these things. Lots of them have been useful though.<p>Yeah, I know what you mean about the WS insight thing. I have not seen many posts lately from most of them, they are probably trying to get through the holidays like most of us.<p>I will try to read your posts and let you know if my WH has said anything insightful that may help you. He's actually pretty good in this department. <p>He's out of the fog, so alot of the stuff he says now makes sense regarding the affair.<p>We've actually done a pretty good job at understanding it, how it happens, etc. Now it's all the after-effects and other stuff that we are hacking our way through. It's real tough.<p>HbH

Hah!! Energizer bunny on crack!<p>I remember the times when I had quite a few threads going as well. You just need it sometimes.<p>Mmmm.. Mikes. Sorry, I just opened a Mike's hard lemonade. Need something to take the edge off tonight.<p>Yeah, I remember when our cats were young, they would climb up the tree and wreck it to pieces. Hopefully yours doesn't come crashing down. Or maybe if the kitten has the right timing it will be JUST before you LB and it will save you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have a kiddle leash, I was using it for a while, but she HATES it. I may have to re-instate it.<p>I think she is just acting up cuz' my H isn't around. She keeps screaming at me cuz' I am the one picking her up from the babysitter. I do it 4 of the 5 days normally, but she wants her dad, so when I show up... And of course she doesn't understand why he is on his TRIP, and keeps thinking he'll be home when we get there...<p>At least my 6 1/2 year old understands. She's a godsend. She says it doesn't matter to her cuz' she knows this time H is coming back. She's always helping me clean and going to bed early so I "can have time to spend with daddy too. You never get to see him and I know you miss him so I'm going to go to bed and let you spend time with him".<p>I think you can read into that like I do. At least she says she can't remember why he left the first time (OW or "his girlfriend" as she knew it). She says she's sure she could remember, but she doesn't want to, so she's not going to try.<p>sigh.
HbH

Sorry, I was off reading MissingHer's thread.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It's real tough. <hr></blockquote><p>AMEN to that. <p>That would be nice if I could get some more WS input. Don't know if you read the thread this morning, but I was considering bringing my WS here to post/get input from other WS... She's actually been pretty receptive to some of the stuff that I print off for her to read. Hasn't been a LB, until today. <p>Two days ago, I think she was only partly foggy, and she suggested that she move back in, but it was for the wrong reasons. Well last night we agreed that she wouldn't (actually she pretty much rescinded the offer, but I'd already decided on NOT). In hind site, I should have probably seen the FOG rhetoric from last night, but I didn't and I gave her a couple of posts about depression because she's been unable to believe that that had a part in my actions of the last year. <p>It didn't sit very well and today she was pissed at me. I had sent her an email setting up a meeting in the morning to repair a dent that I'd put in her car right after D-Day, and she replied and said ok on the meeting, but the rest was spit and vinegar.... But tonight (for no apparent reason) she called to see if we were still meeting tomorrow morning. I just plain old don't get her sometimes.<p>What books did ya order? I've finished SAA, and Dobson's Love must be Tough; both excellent reads. I've also read When a Mate Wants Out by Conway & Conway, not a bad book but I don't remember any specifics of it. One other was Winning your Wife Back by Gary Smalley- dumb book, it's set like some halftime prep talk. Really, it makes comparisons between our plight and the 1993 Buffalo -vs Houston "comeback of the century." I'm not joking! DUMB.<p>K

Hey guys, I'm a dog person, but wanted to say Hi. HBH, your replies really have helped me over the last few months at times when I really needed it. I just wanted to say I SOOOO understand how things get ugly once his phone calls are over. There's just SOOOO much pain and anger to get through. I imagine your feelings are pretty much on schedule with where you are in recovery. I'm probably not the best to give advice as my H and I are separating (probably divorcing, but separating sounds less strong), but I just wanted you to know that I totally understand how sometimes the mind just won't shut off all the lies, the betrayal, the anger. Since my H and I put the house on the market, I'm learning to stop checking his cell phone, stop having him call me to "reassure" me that he's not with OW. It's been REALLY tough, but why do I need to trust him when he says he doesn't want the M anyway? You know what's been the hardest? I think the A is truly over, so now it's not about the OW, it's just about me! That sucks rocks. O.K., so I'm sorry this turned into about me! Anyway, I have a dog that's a poodle/terrier mix. He's 11 1/2. I will lose him when we sell the house, as the apartments don't take dogs. Just another reason to be SOOOO pissed off at my H.<p>Kevco, wanted to say hi too. Saw your post about thinking I dropped off the face of the earth. Sometimes I really wish I could! I told you before though, the MB didn't work with me and my H (at least not yet), so I don't feel like a very good advice giver.<p>HBH, I will say a prayer that God can give you some peace tonight so you can sleep. I'm so sorry that you can't turn the memories of all of this off. I'm actually to the point with my H right now where I just want to scream at him, but then I think, the man didn't want to help me get through what his A did to me before, what makes me think he'll give a dam* about my pain now? I need some serious therapy!!!<p>O.K. It's time for me to go to bed. I'm praying for you and also for YOU Kevco. (By the way, Kevco, if you WERE asking for advice, I'd say for you it's time to Plan B. You are having too much trouble leaving your WS alone to figure out her shi*. Trust me when I say that when you continue to analyze and want to "help" her see things more clearly, all you do is push her away. Been there, done that, got that t-shirt. It didn't work. The minute I backed off (you know, this was before my H decided I wasn't worth the effort), he came towards me. I know you didn't ask for my advice, so just dump it if you want. I truly see that you want so much for your W to SEE what she's doing, but they can't see it until they step back and really see what they would be losing. You're not really helping her see right now. Write that heartfelt "I'm losing my love for you" Plan B letter, then let her go for now.<p>O.K. - No More Unsolicited advice.<p>Please know that my prayers are with you both and with your spouses. I know God wants the marriages all to work. <p>NIGHT NIGHT!!<p>MOM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Wow, all that from a 6 1/2 year old. They DO say the craziest things.<p>I hope WS and I can put this back together so we can have children. I think we'd make great parents. I wish I hadn't been dead for the last year or so because I had been hoping this last summer would be the year for us to start. Now it'd probably be LATE next summer, if at all. And I CERTAINLY wouldn't want to just rush out and get wife #2 and then rush in and have kids.....MAN, it sure looks like I'm going to be the old, broken down dad like my father was (if at all). Hate that.<p>One other book I started reading but didn't get through is SoulMates by Thomas Moore....it's awefully classical phych stuff. A lot of mythology analogies and stuff. Too academic for me, though that statement would shock the pants of my WS (HMMMM, maybe I ought to try that, just kidding).<p>K

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] MOM!!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hey, Lady! You DO belong here on MB, you don't know how much of an inspiration you've been (at least to ME)! That's just the kind of caring people that we need here. Ones with a calm head, even though you wanna scream at H. We're always here for you. If you don't want to post, then email me: comradekev@yahoo.com I try to check it at least daily.<p>And about the advice thing. I'm moving in that direction, I know....I've felt compelled to go to Plan B by folks here, by my heart, and by God (though I have a REAL hard time believing it's really God speaking to little old me, the skeptic in me I guess). I've been waiting for her session with Steve, and then mine later that week.<p>And actually, I've seen some positive steps by WS. At one point in the past week, she was no longer RUNNING away from the fence, she'd actually stopped, turned around and taken a couple of tenative steps towards it. If only I could get her to come on over and sit on that darn fence. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>K

There's that dern logout again. <sigh> at least I didn't lose a bunch of stuff this time...<p>MOM, thanks SO much for posting!!! Haven't heard much from you in a while. Just same old, same old, huh? So you really think I've been an inspiration to you? Wow. I'm flattered. I was thinking that it was friends like you that make it even possible for me to keep going.<p>If I had never found MB, I would have been divorced by now, that's for sure. Affairs were like taboo.<p>Kevco, I just replied to your other thread. I hope you don't mind. I know it's not exactly what you think your WS may need to hear, but I have some experience in WS-talk and sometimes the things that click aren't what the BS thinks would do it.<p>I really do wish the best for you. I think it is too soon for you to plan B. I mean, your wife actually asked you or let you post that, right? Or did she talk to you and you posted it without her knowing, expecting to tell her later (i.e. helping her).<p>It does sound a bit like you are pushing with the MB stuff... Just watch it. It's a fine line to walk, I know, I've been there. Took my H several months to read anything, and even now he is only 1/2 way through the questionnaire.<p>Oh, he'll do whatever our MC suggests, but the though of self-help books or the MB site, he just doesn't GET it yet. Hopefully someday...<p>HbH

Oh, the books!!<p>I've read:
After the affair - good book<p>Love must be tough - good book<p>His Needs her Needs - eehhh<p>SAA - extremely valuable<p>Understanding Male Depression - boring, couldn't finish<p>How to get what you want and want what you have - reading now<p>and two other "control related" books. I can't remember the name right now, but they were extremely useful.<p>I am buying:<p>The Dance of Anger - suggested by Jo, which I think will be real useful to me<p>Co-Dependent No More - suggested by IC, again, hopeful<p>Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets - light reading<p>How One of You can Bring the Two of you Together - Suggested by TA, hope it's good<p>HbH

I do appreciate your post on my other thread. It's not about what I think she should hear, it's about her hearing it from other people. <p>You see, when we were talking last night, she said and I agreed that NOBODY we know understands what we're going through. Because none of them have experienced it. Well except for one friend of WS, and she's an unrepentant OW who's pissed at her H, so she's not being really helpful to our marriage. Several of her other friends are the kind of weak friends who just nod and smile no matter what- "MMMHMMM, that's nice, sure, you're doing the right thing." She DOES have two friends (one of whom she's living with), that I believe are opposed to the A, and who generally say it like it is. Then there's OM's roommate whose 20 something wife just died a year ago or so of cervical cancer, and so he's like, "go out and do WHATEVER makes you happy and feel good because you could DIE TOMORROW."<p>Anyway, I asked her last night if she'd be interested in getting the points of view of people who've been through this. She sounded interested, and said she'd think about it. So this morning, I tried to put myself in her shoes and write our story from HER point of view. It's not actually something she had written, but I really believe she'd write something SIMILAR.<p>At this point, because she's drifted back into the FOG, I'm just going to hold onto it and wait for a partly FOGGY day to give it to her. She seems more receptive on those days.<p>Thanks!
K

OH, yeah, I just ordered "How One of You can Bring the Two of you Together" today, man Amazon.com's going to make a fortune off of us.<p>K

Just read your post on Snert's thread...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>oh if you don't do it, I was thinking of just having sex with this other woman so it would fill my need". Oh man, please don't do that. <hr></blockquote><p>So you're saying that won't work? Darn, I was thinkng of using that on my W... just kidding!<p>K

Yikes. Don't get your hopes up, that's not a very good scenario to be in. She probably won't be as receptive as you think, and it may even be an LB to her (how dare you share my story with those people and get it ALL wrong at that!!!).<p>I'm just saying, please tread carefully.<p>I think TA should get a percentage of all the sales Amazon is making off that book. I wonder how many MBer's went off and bought it.<p>It really does sound like you are trying to hard. I remember when my H first wanted to get back together. I bookmarked all this stuff, printed stuff out for him, etc. But, he just wasn't ready, so it didn't sink in. <p>For the first time last week, I nonchalantly said that I was looking over some of the MB stuff and read something that I thought he'd be interested in. We had been talking alot lately about a "plan for recovery" and the four points that the Harley's outline seemed right on par with that.<p>To my enjoyment, he was actually enthusiastic about it. Said right off, yeah, I'd like to read that. I printed it out, and HE ACTUALLY READ IT THAT DAY.<p>If you know my H at all, that is just amazing.<p>My point is just that they have to be ready to absorb what they read, not just read it. It's okay to try, but just don't push her too much, k?<p>I think I am going to try and go to bed now. On the East Coast over here, it's near 12am and my H is going to call in 6 hours. I think the Mike's finally did me in.<p>Thanks for talking with my Kevco. I really needed that tonight.

I hear you about the trying too hard thing....I am trying not to push. Basically, I leave the printouts and she asks what they are and I tell her that they're stuff I printed out that I thought she might like to read....no pressure.<p>About the "tell my story and get it wrong" I really don't think that'll be a problem. She has pretty much agreed that I understand what brought us here. She said last night that I've named and taken responsibility for every single thing that I did to harm our marriage. And we've talked a lot about how she got to where she is emotionally, so I'm pretty confident of my rendition....even though I may have missed some important details.<p>Maybe if/after she reads it, if she has other points to make, I'll have HER write it next time and I'll post it for her...that's a good idea, but I don't think she would have written one today as she was peeved at me.<p>Yeah, I'm going to be going to bed too, we're meeting at 6:30 to take her car in...<p>
Thank you also for "talking," it helped my blue mood tonight.<p>K

HA!!! Yeah, you go try that on your wife and see what happens!<p>I don't know. I just can't really understand that logic, but I am a woman, and SF is NOT one of my top 5 needs.... LOL<p>It almost sounds like what Snert needs is Affection, and even if you believe Sex is Sex and Love is Love. If he's looking for Sex to meet his need for Affection, then it's going to be more than sex...<p>Just my 2 cents. Maybe I will go post that to him. I'll wait to see what he comes back with first I guess...<p>Oh, and I just had this wicked trigger of OW that I just must vent about. That women is SUCH a bitc*!!! I must be insane, but not only am I mad at her for what she did and what she put our family through, but now I'm really, really pis*ed at her for using my H like she did.<p>I mean she ACTUALLY told him that she thought they would: have an affair, lie about it, and split up and go on their merry way.<p>When she KNEW he was married, knew he had 3 kids he adored, KNEW he was suffering from severe, severe depressions on a regular basis.<p>And the night they went PA, my H was the lowest he has ever been in his life. You know, when you are lying on the bed and can't move, you don't want to eat/sleep/move depressed? Your friends try to cheer you up and nothing works. You just lie there not moving.<p>Well, she got him to move with sex, but that's about it.<p>And she took advantage of him in that state. How cruel/selfish and uncaring is that? It's almost rape if you think about it.<p>I'm not saying he wasn't willing, I'm just saying when you are in a state of that severe of a depression, you are not mentally sound to make those types of decisions. Kind of like the guys that get a girl drunk and take advantage of her.<p>After that time, he just used sex to try and feel better about himself, feel love, feel something good to get him out of his depression.<p>It didn't happen. Until he got back with me that is and felt the closeness he was searching for in her. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm not trying to downplay his part in it all, I am painfully aware of his choices. Just venting about OW right now...<p>Ugh. Had to get that out so I can sleep tonight. <p>HbH