Any help would be appreciated as to what to do. I was devastated when I found out, I thought my heart was going to drop to the floor. I love her more than words can say - I've not been loving her the way she needs to be loved I guess. Here's the story...<p>I recently found out my wife of 5 years is having an affair with a guy from Louisiana, we're in MI. We have a three year old son. We're not seperated, she says she loves me but has become very attached to this other guy - she doesn't know exactly how he feels - he has two kids - 8 and 10 - ex-wife drug addict - full custody of kids. I drew a line accross a sheet of paper - his name on one side and mine on the other. I asked where her heart is. She said in the middle. The affair started last November on a business trip (work at same company - different states), they have since been communicating via e-mail and phone at work. Since it started, last November, she's been lying about everything (fear of getting people upset - she's a peace maker, never gets anyone upset, whatever it takes - that's her personality - I don't get upset - even when I found out about this affair in August - hurt but not upset - I'm an analyzer, why did this happen) - she even lies to him - he thought (thinks as far as I know) that we've been seperated and are close friends - not the case - we've been loving towards each other this entire year - even after I found out about it. they have since been on two or three other 'business' trips to meet. She claims they had sex once and of course he's a really nice guy - I don't doubt that - like he'd show anything else - he's got a woman on his business trips (I may be wrong). if he is such a nice guy, wouldn't he choose not to sleep with a married woman - and if he knew the truth he would request she work it out with me or completely leave me and then they can see how it goes? I don't know. I've been kind of pushy in terms of making a decision, him or me. She says it's not exactly about him or me, it's about herself and what she wants - she's searching?? she mentioned at one point a week ago that she's waiting to see how he feels, maybe if he'll relocate or something. She said she is not relocating because of our son. She has become best friends with a girl that's a single mom of an 8 year old. She's very outgoing, says what she thinks, I think my wife envys her - obviously her and I don't get along. She's pushing my wife to leave me, saying she can never be happy with me (what's that?). This friend of hers has become close friends with the lover. How convenient I think.. My big problem is there's a trip scheduled in 2 weeks to see each other again (for the weekend in Detroit & Chicago - 100 miles away), and this friend has invited him to a house warming party some time on the same weekend (to get them together I'm sure) my wife says she has to see him to make her decision. I've been told both ways (and have talked to her about it), either 'set the bird free - see if it comes back - maybe it's true love' and I've been told 'it's a temporary fix, infatuation, it will not resolve her problems and we can fix what we have) I don't want this family to break up but I know it's her decision to make. she say's we've never had a healthy marriage - I agree now that I understand what the problems have been. (we're both to blame, but is that an excuse to give up and run to someone else who makes you feel good) won't these problems resurface if she doesn't work them out? I feel like a failer and want to be a better person for myself and for her, but at this point she's not willing to give it an honest try. After I mentioned this to her, she said, "Fine, I won't go on this trip and be miserable and unhappy for the rest of my life." I think, cop out - Is happiness something that just slaps you in the face - I thought it was something you had to work on - life's not happy all the time. It seems like she's following her feelgood mind set, versus looking at what the affair really is (according to most - besides her friend and probably the lover) Granted we were dating out of high school for 5 years before we got married in 96 - young and immature. but we've started this family and why can't she see that what she's doing is wrong, isn't it? it's running from problems to something that feels good instead of fixing her problems within the marriage and herself. She admits that she's never really 100% committed on working on making things better, she just hoped they would. I never knew anything was wrong because of my personality, since my awareness, I've done a huge change in values, God, the way I look at life for my son's sake and my own. I keep telling her it's wrong.. I think maybe she'll make her decision just to show me I'm not always right,, I don't know. what's wrong and right??, I guess that's something you have to come up with on your own. She says I'm like a father figure to her, and I'm always right. I've done so much reading on affairs - unmet needs, infatuation, excitement of newness - but c'mone, she's only seen this guy three or four times, they communicate over e-mail and some phone - is that love and I'm wrong - I know it only matters for her what she thinks it is - but darnit, how well does she really know him, I'm afraid for her. Can it be love or soulmates - or is he playing her. I'm sure I've left out much detail to completely understand the situation, but please, the more advice and reading I've been doing, the better I feel, or more confused, I don't know. I feel that my family is falling apart and I so badly don't want it to.
I believe I've forgiven her for hurting me in the past - the lies and deceit - she says she's committed to tell any more lies to me. can I trust that? Am I going to be able to forgive her if she goes on this trip right in front of my face? Isn't she saying he's more important than I.<p>And, should I send him an e-mail - I know who it is - or send him this post - so he really knows the truth. One side of me says that's her place to tell him, but what if he has no clue. Don't they say if you cheat on someone to get someone else, you'll more than likely cheat again for that feeling again. I feel sorry for this guy if that's true.... She said she would be pissed if I sent him an e-mail (I said I was going to and never did) but - should I care at this point... Thank You<p>[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]</p>

Hi, <p>Welcome to MB. This is the place where your story or like it has been told hundreds of times over..... believe it or not! <p>Now to your issue. Read up on the concepts page. The link is under the MB logo at the top. Find the book Surviving an Affair and his needs/her needs. Get with a good marriage counselor or utilize the phone counseling services of Steve or Jennifer here at MB.
There is also an emotional needs questionnaire. <p>A few of our posters have links below their names. Look up those links and read up on the info of plan a and plan b. Get a clear understanding of what each plans definition and purpose. Then compare it with your situation and characters involved. <p>I don't have access to my links right now. Maybe Redhat or one of the other people will post shortly. It is usually kind of slow on the weekends so please be patient with us. <p>Post your thoughts and vent as you need. You will find this a helpful place. There are acronyms used here that you will find helpful. From your post you are the (bs - betrayed spouse) and your wife is the WS - wayward spouse. <p>Just a note: It is virtually impossible to leave your heart in 2 or more places and be happy. So know that your w is not happy right now. The reasons will vary but she is not happy. Her happiness is no more a possibility in this state than it is possible for her to sleep in 2 beds at the same time. Silly comparison but when you talk to those in the 'fog' (another descriptive name for an A - affair), you will find this rather a common way of thinking. We jokinly refer to those in the fog as speaking fogese.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>TAke care and keep posting.
L.

It's me again and I'm just wondering if he's such a nice guy and wants my wife to be in a long relationship other than a 'fun filled' trip friend, why hasn't he asked her to leave me or express he'll move up here or something? According to her, he knows we've not been seperated yet he's still persuing her. Thank You in advance.<p>[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]</p>

Thank You Orchid for the reply. I will look at plan A and B. Don't know what it is right now.<p>You referenced a book - surviving an affair - I'm assuming that would be for the bs, correct? obviously, we don't know if my w is going to want to honestly reconcile.<p>This 'fog' is the worst pain I've felt in my life and I don't even think it's really peeked yet - maybe....

Hello,<p>My husband and I just joined this forum today and this was the first post we read and our mouths are still hanging open. This is *exactly* what we are going through and why we were looking at MB and why we joined this list.<p>I guess I am the WS as I have been emailing someone for the past year with whom I have become very attached to. We are on opposite sides of the Atlantic, but I went over and visited him for a few days this past summer. I told my husband all about it on our 17th wedding anniversary in August. We have three beautiful children (12, 8,7).<p>I have not been happy with our marriage for many, many years. Instead of telling him when I was upset with something, I just kept it inside until I just could not stand him anymore. I harbored resentment towards him for years and had given up on having a happy marriage. We still are close in some ways, but not on a deep level. After he found out just where my heart was, he changed dramatically! He has been SO attentive and nice to me, giving me what I need. I want to feel closer to him and trust him again with my emotions, but over the past 12 or 13 years I have built up a mighty wall to protect myself from hurt. I don't know how to tear that wall down.<p>I am very torn. I do love my husband, but I cannot let go of my feelings towards "him" (do you have an acronym for the "other guy"?). I am thinking that a trial separation might give me the space I need to think objectively and discover exactly what I want. I, too, have thought that if I could just spend some more time with "him" (the "OG") that I could make a decision. I don't know if that will do the trick or not. I guess I am just too foggy to think clearly.<p>Have any of you had a trial separation so that the WS could figure out what the two of you should do? Did it work??? Please advise! <p>Thanks!

Hi, Me again,<p>I forgot to tell "tycush" in my last post to think long and hard about emailing the "other guy". I was just beginning to trust my husband again when he did just that! He emailed "him" this past Thursday without my knowledge and it set us back. However, he did tell me about it shortly thereafter. My desire to protect "him" (the OG) from any uncomfortable feelings was tremendous! It made me want to be with him more than ever to make sure he was OK. I am now more distrusting of my husband than I was three days ago (he had previously promised me he would not email him). <p>One good thing, though, about this is that "he" now knows how my husband feels. They have actually had a couple of very cordial exchanges since. My husband feels better that the other guy knows just how he feels, but in return he lost my trust again.<p>Soooo... think about it. Weigh the pros and cons first and then decide if it is worth it.<p>Hope this helps!

Hi you all!!!<p>Ok Tycush, I will send you the welcome package when I get home. The plan A and B info is located in several areas. The book surviving an affair is good for both the BS & WS. However, most BS' look at it first since they are generally the first to do research. Depending on the attitude of the WS, they can benefit if they are interesting in understanding what they are going through and will go through. So I recommend it for both of you (with a bit of caution for your W). <p>L.

Hi vrmcca,<p>Welcome to marriage builders!!! I am glad both you and your H are wanting to learn more. This is the area where many of us who are undergoing various stages of the A are dealing with understanding, moving on, recovery, etc. <p>I recommend you do the following first:<p>1. post your story on the Just found Out site.
2. You can come here to GQII (general questions II) and post your comments/story here).
RE: most posters visit several sites. GQII is the one where many post so you have a better chance of getting more responses here. <p>3. take a look at the concepts section located under the logo. It will give a brief overview of what MB is about and the plan A and B stuff. You will be directed to look up books by Dr. Harley such as Surviving an Affair and his needs/her needs. Get those books and read them ASAP. Very helpful. Also Dr Harley has an emotional needs questionnaire that is beneficial to see where each of your needs reside. Then share them with each other. The phone counseling sessions are available with Steve Harley and Jennifer C (children of Dr Harley and well qualiified as counselors). <p>Well that's just the start. You will find a variety of stories here. Some very heartbreaking and others kinda funny...... mine tend to be a bit hilarious since I had to deal with a crazy OW. That is a whole other story. LOL!!!! <p>You will find this group supportive but remember we are not professionals, just everyday people trying to survivive, grow and cope. Sometimes you will hear things you don't like, some feelings may get hurt. Why? Because you are dealing with other personalities. Simple as that. Take the good of what you hear and discard the bad. You will have progressive and setback days. Know this. A lot of emotions could erupt and you may feel like you are moving nowhere or even backwards. Don't give up. <p>Post/vent here either together or separate. Keep your lines of communication open with each other as much as possible. <p>Well that is all I can do for the moment. More help will come later. Weekends are usually slow so please be patient with us. But I think you have homework!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Again welcome to MB and I hope this helps your recovery.<p>Take Care,
L.<p>ps: FYI, there are several couples that post here. Sometimes good and sometimes bad... overall mostly a good thing.....

Thank You vrmcca... we have not seperated at all. She thinks a seperation will get her to see what it's like with out me - think objectively like you said. I personally feel that a seperation is running from the problem, just like an affair. Am I right, who knows.. just blabbing I guess. I don't see how that would work and considering our 3 yr son, we both don't want to part from him. I've read so much and people have told me that statistically, seperation is the worst thing to do...?.?.. only 15 - 20 percent of those who seperate actually reconcile.<p>This is devistating for all of us huh? Don't know if it applies, but read Disrespectful Judgements in MB - that's exactly what I've been doing to her... telling her what's right and wrong, what are your values, it's an addiction, etc... I'm only trying to get her to see it from my perspective but I think I realize after reading about disrespect, that I'm actually pushing her farther away. It's just so damn hard for me not to do!!<p> The Plan A and Plan B information is really good, at least it made me feel a little better - from what I could understand, just writing in this forum helps.. thank you so much for listening and responding with your love. Let's keep in touch and see how each are doing?<p>Orchid - thank you!!! I'm looking forward to receiving that information.<p>This is great, I just joined today and posted my story, and already receiving much needed talking to. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

VRMCCA. Can you share with me how you're feeling in that position. My w is having a very dificult time talking with me, showing basically no affection. The talking part is probably due to the fact I have been shutting down her spirit by always saying what's right and wrong. I'm going to try to respect what she is doing for now and hope it passes. That trip is going to be the most dificult to just let go... talk to you later I hope. Thanks.

This is a question to Vrmcca. You write that you were upset with your husband that he wrote to the other guy that he knew of your affair with this man when you went to visit him and you also told him about it on your 17th anniversary. You claim you were just beginning to trust your husband again but his letter set your trust level back because he said he would not do it.
I am sorry but I must be missing something here.
Were you not the one who cheated on your husband, flew off to spend time with this other man and then confessed it to your husband on your 17th wedding anniversary? It would seem to me that you are the person that broke the trust and fell in love with another man while you were married. It seems to me that you should be working to try to regain the trust from your husband that you have broken. Your statment that you are just beginning to trust your husband again seems bizarre. I am just making sure I did not miss something but did your husband go off and have an affiar with some other woman and fall in love with her? I just do not understand your statement.

Has everyone forgotten that they are married?<p>I am sorry, but your wife is being totally selfish. She needs to make a decision.<p>She has a moral obligation to you & your child to stop her affair & decide what she wants.<p>I know you are hurt & probably want to do anything to keep her, but isn't that just helping her continue with her unrealsitic behavior?<p>I am sorry if I sound so righteous, but I am so appaulled at all the people who think it's ok to leave their spouses & children "hanging" while they decide what's right for them.<p>When you get married you form a "union". Since when do you think it's okay to start thinking and behaving like a single person. Never mind adding children to that union. Doesn't that make the union stronger, more complex.<p>Single parenthood is no bed of roses.<p>Sure that "fluttery" feeling of a "new" relationship is great. (Can't these WS see that it's what they felt when they were 1st with their spouse) And if they stay with the OP long enough the "feeling" will disipate just like it did with their spouse. (Unless of course the BS let's them ahve their cake & eat it too) <p>You see, WE the BS only perpetuate & enable the A by not putting a stop to it.<p>We can still love from afar....but do we need to have our faces rubbed in it every day. NO WAY!<p>Tell her to make a choice. Tell her to act like a married, moral women or move out.<p>
GOOD LUCK...<p>A bad day on beautiful Cape Cod.

I agree with the previous message from LOUSER.<p>"she said she would be pissed if I sent the OM an email telling him the truth." Oh please....You should immediately send an email and tell him she is still married and not separated and that you are aware of the affair. Your letter indicates to me that she sees you now as a second choice and a mere back up. She clearly has little respect for you in that she goes to visit the OM and is sexually intimate with him on her trips. I doubt it was only one time.<p>There is not much to do if she refuses to go into counseling. Why should she have all the options in deciding your future? She cheats, lies and has sex with her lover with little or no remorse. She is going to see him again and find out if he will have her while she tells him she is not living with you. If he says no then she will accept you as the doorprize?<p>I would no longer let her dictate the situation and constantly throw the affair in your face like she is doing. I would send the email to this OM.
Personally I would contact a lawyer and present her with this information. She is in a fog and is being very disrespectful to you. She needs to be aware that there will be ramifications to her actions. Right now she thinks you will always be a backup so she can continue to test the waters with this OM and someone else in the future. "She would be pissed if I sent an email to the OM telling him the truth." Oh Please.....<p>I wish you luck. Remember you are not a doorprize and a backup and she should be made aware of this.

tycush,
So far, I have still been able to show affection and talk with my husband. He was even by my side when I wrote the last two posts. I think we can talk now because he has realized what he did wrong in neglecting my emotions and taking me for granted for *years* while at the same time I was giving him my all!! When I finally gave up on our marriage and he realized it, he started listening to me instead of telling me how I should think. He seems as if he now respects my thoughts and actually gives them merit! I know for me, that was a tremendous change!!! One of the biggest problems I had with him was that he always wanted me to be what HE wanted me to be rather than let me be who I am. Before, if he could not understand why I felt the way I did about certain things, then I was the one who *had* to be wrong. He is now, for the first time in probably 15 years, actually seeing me for who I AM. He says when he realized he had lost my love, it was like he had an immediate epiphany and the light had finally been turned on and he could see what he had done wrong. He is at work right now. Maybe he can make some comments sometime about how he changed. If he had not been SO understanding and SO loving to me (while giving me space when I needed it) I don't think I could talk with him and show him affection. Shortly after I told him how I felt, he took me on a short vacation to the beach (no kids!). At that time I had not seen a great change in him and whenever we got the least bit close emotionally, I would start having a panic attack. I couldn't breathe, I broke out in a sweat, and my heart started pounding. Little by little his love and patience with me has changed that.<p>When I went overseas this summer and spent a few days with "him", we were very close emotionally, but nothing physical occured (he knew I was married, albeit unhappily, and is a very honorable man!). The fact that we did not share *that* level of intimacy may have made a difference in the way I can now talk to my h. I know I was not unfaithful in that sense so I have no guilt that way.
Hope this helps some.
If you have anymore questions for me or for my h, don't hesitate to ask. We are very curious to see how others in this situation are feeling and how they are handling things. He has his suitcase already packed to leave tomorrow. I still don't know if this is the best thing to do, but I don't think he deserves the pain I am causing him because I am so torn. I need to think objectively about this so I can do what's best for everyone involved. It is not doing him nor the children any good to have me like this!
Hope to hear back from you.

Louser, I agree with you. My ws thought seperation and div would be glamourous. It got her a lot of attention at first but now she is broke (she says) and isolated from family. very miserable but just as mean to me as can be. Only calls when begging for money then goes back to see op. I have had it with acid toungue and hateful actions. I wonder if any ws is actually happier after they leave than while they were taking care of their spouces and children. I seriously doubt it. They are afraid to admit they made a mistake and try to work on making a go of it.

tycush;
i too had a simmilar situation...my wife asked me not to contact the om...i felt that if she had started something then it was my responsabality to end it...i called the om and he assured me that he had gone thru a cheating divorce many years ago and that he didnt fool around with married women or women that he worked with...my wife had gone to the town to collect on a wager that she had made with him and had told me that the had made love...i now feel that my wife is a liar ,of course,and told her so also told her that her selfishness was not only between the 2 of us but affected our children,grown,as well as our grandkids, she hadnt thought of that, obviously,...my advice for what its worth is grab the bull by the horns and hang on...show your wife that you love her and try to convince her that your love is greater than any hurt or pain that she may try to inflict...also pray, Gods plan is greater than what we realize,sometimes when all sems lost there will be a miracle occur... it works...best of luck and hang in there...brokenheart51

Hey vrmcca, or anyone, what are your thoughts on sending the OM a link to this post. Because I really don't know if he knows the truth, this would tell him (if he chooses to read it) what the real situation is. I know it's from my perspective, but it is the truth.<p>I mentioned to my w this morning (she's been 'willingly' reading my posts and responses) just as a suggestion, maybe for her to post her feelings out here on the forum to get others opinions from her perspective. ?? vrmcca, have you done this? maybe hearing it from someone else will help me understand more. My w says it's hard for her to talk to me from her perspective because I typically shut her down with what's right and wrong. It's so hard to do when I feel so strongly about family values, and what I feel an affair really is. Thanks for listening. my prayers are strong and I know there's a plan for me, you too, WS too, OM too, I pray this family will blossom - yours too.. God Bless.<p>[ December 02, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]</p>

Well this weekend didn't go to well. The counselor suggested that I should ask my wife out for dinner, a movie, or just a drink. We should go out and just enjoy each others company and not talk about the current situation. Well my wife rejected me on Saturday because she was tired from working that day. Well come Sunday I tried again and she said she didn't feel good and wanted to stay home. Well I found out she went out with one of her friends for dinner. So I keep trying and trying and notta. The counselor suggests I try something and my wife just does not try. What does everyone think of this? Is she still in the fog and she knows she hurt me so she doesn't want to be with me? Or do you think she has her mind made up on a divorce and she is justing being really mean about all of this? Hard to keep trying and trying and I don't see anything. I am not expecting her to say I want to work on the relationship. But I would like to see some sign of something positive in all of this...

My W asked me this morning before work to please let her know before sending the OM this post - if I decide to (she's been reading my posts and your replies) - that would be a big LB she said. Can I get some more opinions on this - should I?<p>I don't want to get her upset - I'm in Plan A right now. Woundn't that be disrespectful - isn't it her place to tell him the truth? I feel I may be saving a man from drowning...<p>and, considering this upcoming trip, I've explained myself and how I feel and she's still not understanding me (maybe she does understand but doesn't care - how can that be possible - she does care and that's what's driving her crazy), nor has she confirmed the trip plans - if she's going, - should I move to Plan B now? Thank You

Is there anyone following this post that is in WS shoes? any input from that perspective would be appreciated. Thank You.