Probably breaking some code of confidentiality, but here's the response I got to my e-mail quiry to my H. I don't want to answer it until I get some of the perspectives of you guys, as sometimes his logic sways when when it shouldn't. I'm not sure he really addressed my questions...<p>He wrote...
I'm pretty happy with my life as it is...
To get into a Divorce is a big mess and will ultimately likely be the end of anything left between us but maybe we're already there?
I don't understand the NEED for a divorce, nor do I understand the hurry for an IMMEDIATE answer to all the points you bring up. I don't like pressure salesmen and if you want me to give you a black-on-white clarification, point-by-point, it's gonna take me a while.
I'm trying to come to an understanding myself. It prob. won't be an acceptable one for us.
Whatever we may have from now on will likely not be a traditional marriage anyway. If I roll over there will be all kinds of scrutiny and control and I'm not likely to conform to it.
Our situation has a much longer history than you would like to include.
The original problem we had with "OW" did not turn into what you expected it to be... but it lingered partially because of the control you wanted to have over the situation and it did NOT turn into what you thought it would in the first place.
I meet lots of people, men and women, I don't sit in my room when away from home, waiting for the moment I can return home, I would die. When I interact with these people (especially if it's anywhere on paper) you analyze my thoughts (like these) to the point that I should always be conscious of how you would interpret the situation. That is control. Too much control. If it does not affect you directly, I believe, it should not matter. I am Me first, Then I am Us. You want too much Me.
I have no "grand scheme" to screw everything in sight, I'm getting older and that will surely change. The life I lead is not a "normal" one like you want to lead.
I have never snooped and will not snoop, I can't tolerate snooping.
The next fifteen years will be about as lonely as the last ones for me, at my job, whether you are there or not, unless I change jobs. I want to change jobs but this is too easy money for now.
I still like you an awful lot, but will never be the roll model you want me to be: flowers, church, karaoke, no cursing etc. You may be better off with someone that's not a natural "redneck" like me!
I think I've made enough"points" for now....<p>
There it is...What would you respond?<p>Beth

Hi Beth,<p> I may be way off base here, but the first thing that came to my mind was that he is trying to stall for time. Perhaps to move or hide funds???
Hard to say that is the case, but keep it in mind. <p> I would say to do whatever necessary to protect yourself and know exactly what assets the two of you actually have. <p> I also wanted to say that I am sorry for what he is doing to you. This type of behavior has gone on in your life far too long.<p> Keep posting and stay strong. And, do not feel bad for wanting certian things from him, like going to church and not cursing. It is rightous to want those things for your spouse and family.<p> jd

Beth,<p>I am so sorry..although I do understand..<p>As I read your post I was reminded of the movie
"Left Behind" it took the Rapture to make him wake up..when he called home and there was no answer..
he got home and she and son were among the millions missing..it wasn't until she was gone did he fully understand just what it was he lost..<p>I think a plan b is supposed to be such an act..
remove yourself from the situation..seperate with no contact..not sure how old your kids are..if they are young..the no contact is rather difficult..if they are older he really doesn't need to go through you to have contact with them..<p>So you need to ask yourself..Do you "need" this type of man in your life? Do you "need" to worry about if he's going to give you a disease? NO..You don't NEED these things..now..do you "WANT" to live like this..well..I know that by your posts you don't..So now is it's time for you to make some choices..you have given him two years of your life..waiting on him to decide what it is HE wants..your marriage or OW..<p>Now, I do understand that he's going to go do things and not want to stay cooped up in a hotel room when he's traveling extensively..just as you don't stay home 24/7 with no life for yourself when he's gone..You karaoke, and go out w/ your friends and do things you enjoy, without him, is he required to stay in and not do things too?..so yes he's right..your not just 1 person..your two seperate ppl who are married to make an 'us', which typically means your together
and do things as a couple..and do things seperate from each other also..but you shouldn't have to always do things seperately..<p>Now, what would make this easier for you to trust him that there is no sexual contact w/ these OW when he's gone? And that he just has a friendship with these women that is nothing more than that?<p>IMHO- The only thing that would help ease your mind is his not hiding things out of fear that you will assume that it's more than it is..the RADICAL HONESTY!!! If he has plans to go to dinner or do something w/ someone..he should let you know--and talk to you about it..yes, it will hurt you..but, he's talking to you about it..and sharing these things with you..and not trying to hide it from you..it's when they hide things and then you find out later he lied..that the assumptions come into play..and the trust plummets to an all time low..so you begin to question everything..<p>Now when you go out with your friends do you share everything with him that happens? Like if some guy flirts with you? Or that you talked to so and so..and tell him who all was there? If so then he has that trust in you..because you share these things with him..he has no reason NOT to trust you..because you give him that Radical Honesty..of sharing yourself completely with him..you haven't done anything..therefore you have nothing to hide..so you share..this helps him trust you..<p>The problem here is he's not doing the same thing in return..he's not sharing himself with you, making you a part of his day to day life..so that you too can have that same trust..<p>I fear that what he's about to say in response to you will be along the lines of..Let's just keep things as they are..I'll try to be here more often..the kids are older now so maybe you can travel w/ me occassionally..blah blah blah..<p>And he's right..as long as he travels things will not be 'normal' and you will not have the traditional marriage..so you need to ask yourself..can Beth continue to live like this?
Can Beth continue having a husband home only on occassion and accept his terms of marriage? Or does Beth need more out of a marriage relationship that requires both spouses to be there all the time? <p>I've asked myself these same questions Beth...what is it I need at this point?? can I accept his terms of travel? Can I accept not having a spouse here to help raise the kids? Can I accept not having someone to curl up next to every night? Can I accept his being home only when he can be here because the money is more important to him? Is his financial support more important to me than having someone I can share my time with? Can I accept not having emotional support from someone when I really need it? Can I continue to live this way?
Can I continue to live in fear that he is hiding something from me?<p>What is it Beth can and can't accept? Only you can answer these questions..and they aren't easy questions to answer..I know..but, these are the questions you need to be asking yourself now..<p>You've asked him all you can ask..you've let him know what it is you want/need from him..can he provide these things to you? If He can't, can you accept that for the next 20+ years? If not..well then what do you need to do to get those things?
and if so, then ask God to help you work through your feelings to accept this..

Beth,<p>That letter tells me that he has absolutely no intention of changing anything and is committed to his lifestyle. The question then becomes, can you live with that? <p>If not, I would suggest that you immediately take steps to protect yourself and the kids, starting with a visit to the attorney's office to PROTECT your assets immediately followed by a Plan B letter. Get your assets protected NOW, though.

He has no intention of changing, but would like you to put up with him & his selfishness anyway. I think he summed it all up with "I am Me first". <p>Personally, I'd keep my appt with the lawyer.<p>Kathi

PW,
Well, I definitely believe he does put himself first, like he says "I am ME first." He strikes me as someone who would be fun to know, hell as a husband.<p>You face the same 15 years of loneliness of marriage that he does. He's filling the emptiness with bars, OW, flirting--and seemingly not convinced he has anything to change.<p>Protect yourself financially. He's right that divorce will be a mess--one that his actions have led the 2 of to the edge of. There's no sense of that responsibility in his letter. He refers to you as a high pressure salesman. You could stop selling and act. Or give him the "while" he says it will take. But then, hasn't he had awhile? Any difference in this past year, or expectation for the future?<p>Ah, I'm just so sad for you I don't know what to say.

Dearest Beth:<p>I have followed your life over the past two years.<p>You have a beautiful family and you are a beautiful woman. I think you are incredible...caring, sweet, optimistic, determined! <p>I know how much you love your husband. And, although his response doesn't show it, I am certain there were/are many things to love about him.<p>To me, your H's response is an attempt to make you feel guilty for wanting/needing what every spouse should have a right to ask for: FIDELITY.<p>How much more of this can your battered spirit take? Are you confortable with allowing your H to sleep with other women while being married to you? Are you OPEN to an open marriage?<p>If the answer is NO, then I agree with MelodyLane: you need to take immediate steps to protect yourself and your sons.<p>Peace, ~Marie

Beth,<p>Whatever his point by point clarification, it is pretty clear that he does not want things to be different. He wants to keep being unfaithful, as he pleases, and he wants to stay married to you, and he wants you to accept and condone his behavior. He wants you to agree to him being Cakeman forever.<p>Are you even remotely willing to do this? If not, then I don't see how you can negotiate this one. All the brainstorming in the world cannot bridge the gap between his acceptable solutions (all of which include his being able to pursue whatever relationships he wants in the form that he wants) and what seem to be yours (fidelity). Either you are faithful or you are not, you cannot be partially faithful - such as not committing adultery while in the same city as you.<p>At this stage, do you really need the point by point clarification? You probably don't need to be in a hurry to divorce and you might actually benefit from a little time to protect yourself financially, emotionally, and mentally. Take the time you need to consult the people you want and need to and make a considered decision with a planned approach.<p>I have to say that it amazes me how he tries to blame you for being controlling, for pressuring him, for snooping, for over-analyzing. I sense a bad vent about your H coming on, so I am going to sign off.<p>Hugs,

Dear PW, <p>I am reading lots of good advice here. He doesn't sound as though he has taken any responsibility for the situation your marriage has become. That is completely selfish. IMO it sounds as though he is saying he would like to stay married so as to avoid the unpleasantness and costliness of a D.<p>I would respond to him in a very non-offensive manner with no tone leaning one way or the other then seek legal advice to protect you and your family. Once you get the finances taken care of Plan B him. That may rattle him enough to drop out of the FOG and take a look at some cold hard reality. Sorry you have to go through this.<p>Good Luck.<p>WW4L

Hi all,<p>Thanks for your imput. I'll get back later and respond more directly to some of the points I hear you've made. Just wanted to show you the letter I wrote back to H....<p>I am still mulling over my thoughts and reactions to your thoughts. I will say that you do not need to bother with a point-by-point clarification as what you've written here, coupled with your recent actions with (new)OW, pretty much verifies in my mind what you believe to be a fair way to live your life away from home. I guess what is up to me now is how I want to live mine in relation to how you want to live yours.
I will continue to think on it.<p>Beth

Beth,<p>Wow...I've sensed it for awhile now, but after reading your H's response I am totally convinced that our husbands are one in the same, and I feel for you!!<p>This whole cloning thing is further along than the feds are admitting to...keep your appointment with the attorney and don't be sucked in by H's charm, because he'll turn it on full blast when he finds out about your divorce plans.<p>Good luck!