<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BeenWishin:
<strong><p>OK, I Will!!!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
How very gracious of you. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Okay - I have been reading these posts in utter disbelief. Guys- while everyone is debating these issues - 1) Marsha's situation is not being helped, she is dealing with the most intense emotions and feelings of her life, and, 2) there are other folks on this forum looking for support.<p>Love you all - really!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey Alberta,<p>You are right on both counts. Marsha is looking for help and support. And as I have posted before, I am in the same situation as she. So I read everyone's posts with intense interest. Thanks for the re-focus.<p>Dear Sad Dad,<p>I think you are very on target in your comments. I know that for me, trying to understand where my H's EN of that nature (same-sex attraction) come from is the real mystery. This takes serious counseling! And while we have found a counselor who specializes in this particular area, my H isn't really interested in delving into all this stuff with a counselor. He thinks he can do it himself. Who is he kidding? After 15 years of this type of behavior, even if it's been off-and-on, the problem speaks of a need/dysfunction that time and wishing won't affect. My biggest problem as the BS, trying to see things from Marsha's perspective, is trying to keep my love alive for him. There is no trust. This whole Plan A thing is really tough for me because of my own anger, resentment and hurt.<p>Well, I appreciate everyone's comments and am reading and benefitting from them all. And sometimes I even have to agree with SnL's hard-line approach.<p>Thanks again.
A.

Beenwishin,<p> Lol...believe me when I say that even if you really do, not only does it not bother me but it gives me warm fuzzies... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> Ok, my apologies for the toes I stepped on. To each his/her or...umm...their own.<p> jd

All this debate over my sexual orientation is depressing. On top of being depressed and confused and hated by those around me who knows what has happened.<p>I am too embarrassed by what has happened. I am too ashamed of the impact on my life. I am too ashamed of what my boys' life will be like as the children of a homosexual.<p>I think it's time to end it all. My wife and kids can then have a "normal" husband/father.<p>Don't be surprised if you don't see me again.<p>Marsha...I hope things work out with your husband.

BeenWishin,<p>I'm sorry things here have dissapointed you.<p>Can I make one suggestion before you decide to leave us. Please make an appt with Steve or Jenn Harley for a counseling/coaching session. I'm sure they can give you guidance as to what to do or where to turn. I can't imagine they haven't encountered a similar situation before this.<p>You have my prayers.<p>God Bless,
Jo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BeenWishin:
<strong>All this debate over my sexual orientation is depressing. On top of being depressed and confused and hated by those around me who knows what has happened.<p>I am too embarrassed by what has happened. I am too ashamed of the impact on my life. I am too ashamed of what my boys' life will be like as the children of a homosexual.<p>I think it's time to end it all. My wife and kids can then have a "normal" husband/father.<p>Don't be surprised if you don't see me again.<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>Talk about the height of selfishness. If you really feel that bad, why not consider how bad your kids would feel if you really did off yourself? I think thier devastation and loss of thier father might be a tad harder than your hurt feelings. And they are much less capable of handling devastation than you are of handling temporary hurt feelings. You are the adult here, they are KIDS! You need to put thier very real need for a father before your own hurt feelings. They would be more than a little hurt [more like DEVASTATED] to attend your funeral.<p>You know what? Life is tough, but suicide is a permanent "solution" to a temporary problem - it is the GRAND COP OUT. You might feel depressed and confused - [we all have at different times] but this is certainly not the way to handle it.

OK...you all have computers and brains..
Start here
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/dhap.htm
Get the facts about HIV.<p>Beenwishin, if you're still around, I have some information that may help you...email me at address below.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Twyla:
<strong>OK...you all have computers and brains..
Start here
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/dhap.htm
Get the facts about HIV.<p>Beenwishin, if you're still around, I have some information that may help you...email me at address below.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>And if anyone is interested in an expose done on the CDC's propogation of the AIDS scare by Congressional Research Services [the non-partisan research arm of Congress - they conduct oversight reviews on organizations like the CDC and EPA] and The Wall Street Journal, email me at Dana114@aol.com and I will happily email the entire article to you.<p>Here are the first few paragraphs [and it does get into the actual statistics as uncovered by CRS later in the article]:<p>In the summer of 1987, federal health officials made the fateful decision to bombard the public with a terrifying message: Anyone could get AIDS.
While the message was technically true, it was also highly misleading. Everyone certainly faced some danger, but for most heterosexuals, the risk from a single act of sex was smaller than the risk of ever getting hit by lightning. In the U.S., the disease was, and remains, largely the scourge of gay men, intravenous drug users, their sex partners and their newborn children. <p>
Nonetheless, a bold public-relations campaign promised to sound a general alarm about AIDS, lifting it from a homosexual concern to a national obsession and accelerating efforts to eradicate the disease. For people devoted to public health, it seemed the best course to take.
But nine years after the America Responds to AIDS campaign first hit the airwaves, many scientists and doctors are raising new questions. <p>Increasingly, they worry that the everyone-gets-AIDS message -- still trumpeted not only by government agencies but by celebrities and the media -- is more than just dishonest: It is also having a perverse, potentially deadly effect on funding for AIDS prevention. <p>-snip-<p>
FROM: Health Hazard: AIDS Fight Is Skewed By Federal Campaign Exaggerating Risks --- Most Heterosexuals Face Scant Peril but Receive Large Portion of Funds --- Less Goes to Gays, Addicts
By Amanda Bennett and Anita Sharpe
Staff Reporters of The Wall Street Journal
05/01/1996
The Wall Street Journal
Page A1
(Copyright (c) 1996, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)

<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jdmac1:
[QB]<p> What the BS who lives in this situation gets is a DOUBLE whammy. And if you are any sort of a Christian, I feel VERY bad for you. If you are not a Christian, then this is of no more importance than just another affair. Like mine, like snls(even tho he is WS)And like everyone elses on this forum. But if you are a believer in God, you just got two of the most terrible hits to the stomach that you could have gotten.
QB]<hr></blockquote><p>I am not Christian.<p>Marsha59

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jdmac1:
I will knock adultery just as fast as I will knock homosexuality. Both are wrong in Gods eyes. What the BS who lives in this situation gets is a DOUBLE whammy. And if you are any sort of a Christian, I feel VERY bad for you. If you are not a Christian, then this is of no more importance than just another affair. Like mine, like snls(even tho he is WS)And like everyone elses on this forum. But if you are a believer in God, you just got two of the most terrible hits to the stomach that you could have gotten.
[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>I wasn't going to discuss any more here, but seem to keep wandering back. I didn't really see this remark until Marsha responded.<p>Then I thought "WOW, ignorance abounds on this site!" Do I understand that jd thinks that those who aren't Christians have no conscience when it comes to extramarital affairs? What a slam to the Jewish, Muslims, Hindus and the countless other religions of the world. Even Agnostics and Athiest have feelings about extramarital affairs, for your information.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:
Male homosexuals as a population are far more promiscuous (and careless) than any other sexual population...that is simply a fact form the center for disease control statisitics (and every study done on the subject). They are also the carriers of aids in our culture. You CANNOT treat std with homosexual men as you do other populations, it is literally life and death on a significant scale. [/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>It's people like SnL who take snipets of information and use them to support their narrow views. Of course, I have found this to be true of many religious people, who want to intimidate others with their beliefs.<p>I apologize to those who are true believers in their faith that do not use distorted information to carry out their agenda.

I, too, have been avoiding this thread but keep coming back...I have two things to say:<p>MelodyLane,
What a relief that the CDC has grossly exaggerated the AIDS problem...I'll be sure to pass that on to the several friends that have died from the 'exaggeration'...maybe they just think they're dead!<p>And thank you, BTDT, for your comments about Jews, Muslims, etc. I think one of the biggest flaws in organized religion is that they think only "THEY" are worthy of God's love and mercy. As a Muslim, I believe in the One God--regardless of whether He is called God, Allah, Jehovah--and it is to Him I will answer for my sins.

Not doing too well,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Then I thought "WOW, ignorance abounds on this site!" Do I understand that jd thinks
that those who aren't Christians have no conscience when it comes to extramarital
affairs? What a slam to the Jewish, Muslims, Hindus and the countless other religions of
the world. Even Agnostics and Athiest have feelings about extramarital affairs, for your
information.<hr></blockquote><p> Well look who's ignorance is hanging out now. As far as other religions go I really don't know. I would venture a guess that whatever god they worship does not go for homosexuality or adultery.
Of course some pagan religions could welcome such things. Darned if I know.<p> Now, just so you know....so there are no lines to read between....I never said ANY GROUP, OR RELIGION had no conscience where affairs are concerned. I only stated that if you are Christian neither can/should be condoned.<p> Many of the other religions of the world would KILL Christians where ever they are found if they could. But yeah, they still have feelings where adultery is concerned. Difference is, many of them also KILL the adulterer. Shows their feelings, huh?<p> jd

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jdmac1:
If you are not a Christian, then this is of no more importance than just another affair.
jd[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>jd:<p>If I misunderstood this quote, then by all means, explain it to people like me who are too dumb to understand your logic?

Not doing too well,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>jd:
If I misunderstood this quote, then by all means, explain it to people like me who are too dumb to
understand your logic?<hr></blockquote><p> Don't let it be said that I want to be the cause of anyone being ignorant. Not due to the fact that they TRY to take bits and pieces of something I said to make a point. That being, that if you are a Christian(and possibly other religions)the affair, and especially if it is homosexual, is like taking two(2)(got that)punches to the midsection. Not only are you betrayed, but so is your religion.(understand). If you are not religous, then you do not have that aspect to contend with.<p> The person whose spouse betrays them for someone of the same sex is delt much more pain even without religion involved. Why? Well I am sure you can figure it out for yourself. But if not I will be only to happy to explain further.<p> If you will notice the entire statement I made you will see that I included myself, SNL, and Everyone else in that statement, which you only used a part of. <p> If you want to carry on this stupid form of conversation, we should take it off the forum. You can email me at jdmac1@yahoo.com and I will be only too happy to continue. This serves no purpose to anyone. Unless you have an axe to grind. Heck, I enjoy the debate. It gives me the chance to teach someone something. That is the only way ignorance is turned to enlightenment. Who knows, you may teach me something. Just don't try to twist my words or their meaning for your agenda. <p> jd

Everyone,<p> I want to apologize for using the terms ignorance, ignorant, and stupid. Just because someone else decides to use those terms doesn't mean I have to stoop to that level. My apologies.<p> And, I would ask that if you don't understand what someone is attempting to say, then please ask without making blanket statements about the person(s) mental capacity. <p> As for the discussion of religions. If you will simply look around the world today, you won't have to look too far to see which religion is the MOST tolerant of individual freedoms to choose. Whether that be to choose religion, or anything else. <p> jd

I don't think this merits amy more discussion, either in this forum or privately. I think you better re-think the christian religion...it too lacks a lot of tolerance.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by diddallas:
<strong>I, too, have been avoiding this thread but keep coming back...I have two things to say:<p>MelodyLane,
What a relief that the CDC has grossly exaggerated the AIDS problem...I'll be sure to pass that on to the several friends that have died from the 'exaggeration'...maybe they just think they're dead!<p>.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>diddallas, Please do pass that on to thier families - they need to know the truth and they also need to know that millions of TAXPAYER dollars were WITHHELD from the REAL at-risk population [homosexuals and intravenous drug users]and funneled instead to very LOW risk segments causing UNTOLD Aids deaths. This was done to bolster a propoganda campaign initiated by the CDC. <p>By the way, you didn't bother to email me for the articles on the Congressional research on the CDC's AIDS division so you really don't even know IF the CDC exaggerated the data. Surely you want to know the truth,no?<p>email @ Dana114@aol.com for WSJ article