Morning Couples prayer:<p>In our second Morning Prayer she asks our Lord for help in giving her the right words to deflect or defend against the Predators Satan seems to send her way.<p>Now I don&#8217;t want to get too analytical or critical or read too much into this & certainly not with her because this open dialogue is truly a big step in the right direction, but this makes me wonder about a couple things. I have to fight this impulse I have that she may use this couples prayer thing to promote her agenda with me. <p>You might imagine, this started me wondering. As she is beginning to apply her make-up and in my best a very pleasant tones, I ask her if she has had some other advancement. She, also in a very pleasant, non-defensive tone, said, &#8220;no.&#8221; I then posed kind of a rhetorical question, just a preventative thing? She said yes. I asked in a jovial tone if she wanted to do some more role playing and she laughed & said no. All very light. I made me good that we can talk about this.<p>Then when she emerges from her private fitting room (remember she closes the door & is very protective that I not come in when she is trying on her wardrobe for the day!)she is poured into this very thin, stretch, tight V-neck top. Now I ask you, what is wrong with this picture. Just to be sure you understand my feelings here. I am not totally buying this predator thing. I mean when she has described the A&#8217;s, she takes no responsibility. She says these guys were predators & that she had become so interested in sex because I showed her a dirty movie & we watched &#8220;Real Sex&#8221; on HBO &#8211; according to her, these later points are my fault! <p>I know I am obsessing about the dress thing again. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] But honestly, if she is really concerned about potential predators hitting up on her, while does she dress this way?! To me, and I know I may not be objective here, this is like putting an open gallon jug of honey of honey in the clover field & saying that we want to be careful and not attract bees!! Now then when the bees start swarming around, we get all confused and concerned and wonder why such a thing could happen like this??!! <p>Sorry, I Just had to vent here rather than rage on my DW!!<p>Thanks for listening!
HH

Glad you can vent here.<p>Remember, small baby steps at a time. I think she has taken SOME changes. Hang on to those. She probably won't change overnight. Just keep praying God touch her heart in that area.<p>It may take time, but as long as you see some consistant changes (even if they are small). Just hang on to those for awhile.

I must say that I've read alot of what you have posted about the way your DW dresses.<p>I don't think you are obsessing about it....I think it's a problem for you......and if you have a problem with it then she should have a problem with it.<p>I have to admit.....that hearing what your wife wears seems a little far out to me.<p>I'm 29....definatley have the body to wear what your wife seems to wear.....but choose not to BECUASE of the reaction I know would come of it.<p>Seems that your wife really likes the attention of it.....but doesn't really want to admit it?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>...she asks our Lord for help in giving her the right words to deflect or defend against the against the Predators Satan seems to send her way.<hr></blockquote><p>Hhhmmmm. Seems like maybe Satan would send a few less her way if she'd quit putting out the welcome mat, eh?<p>OK, I couldn't resist. Sorry.<p>You cannot try and control her, and as I recall she is in counseling to try and get a handle on her internal issues that drive her to bolster her self-worth this way. I think that's about all you can do. Is she making any progress in her counseling???

A big thanks to all!
Notheard,
Thanks for reiforcement! I am generally a very optimissstic guy, but I do slip at times & I apreciate your support!
Miss Priss,
Thanks for understanding -- I don't always get agreement with the idea that if it's a problem for me, it should be for her -- most importantly from her! I hate to be negative or accussatory, but I believe she may also suffer from some Narcissium -- she does not seem to have evry much real empathy for my feelings -- it is all about her!
Yes, I beieve she is in some denial on some issues here.
Kam,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Hhhmmmm. Seems like maybe Satan would send a few less her way if she'd quit putting out the welcome mat, eh? <hr></blockquote>
My exact sentaments, & very well put!!
You would think it is obviuos, huh?!
She seems to build an alliance of sorts with co-workers & perhaps Pastor, that her look is just fine, ... even with her history. I don't think anyone else has the courage to be totally frank with her about this -- they know it is too important to her. I hope & pray that one of her friends will get the courage to speak to her about this, but I don't think that is fair to ask.
She will normally tone it down a bit when we are out with friends & to church, but I can't help but think our friends notice this Youthful/ sexy look she is going for.
I am very impressed that you recall some things about her Counseling. These session are supposed to be confidential from me, but Yes, she has mentioned on occasion that she talks with Counselor about her obcession with her looks & this control thing has eveidently come up when she told him about her vomitting and her little lie to me about her use of the pre-paid phine card. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I don't believe she is totally honest with him (C) about certain things, like the vomittting was totally new to him -- I have a strong sense she has this image she wants to uphold with him, like she is a vitum to preditors & does not have all these sexual urges and/or actifity ??? I mean she insists that her counselor does not believe she has any issues with SA -- Even if person did not believe in SA as an illness, I don't see how anyone that is familar with her history, could not say that sex was not an issue. A's with two guys (see my Bio) -- one day with both, seperately & she & I were doing it twice a day - she performed oral S on me in movie theater - she had a kind of S with one of these guys that she & I have not done & many people would consider diviant -- I mean, come on?!
She can be a very good actress!
The C ing helps to a degree I suppose, but until she is honest with herself (as you know!) there is not a lot of real hope. I am hangin on with seat belt firmly tightened.
Anyway, one day at a time!
Thanks again!
HH

Hey, HH,
Still dealing with dress issues...
Sorry, I agree with Kam - the welcome mat is out. When I dress like that(usually for H), I am hoping to be noticed...
Are you and I the 'eternal optmists' or fooling ourselves???
Hugs,

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hurrian Hoosier:
<strong>Morning Couples prayer:<p>In our second Morning Prayer she asks our Lord for help in giving her the right words to deflect or defend against the Predators Satan seems to send her way.<p>HH</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well heck, if she can't convince *YOU* that the fault all lies with these evil "PREDATORS" of satan, then maybe she can fool God! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

P.S. and as I am SURE you realize, the problem is NOT with the predators, but with HER REACTION, so the "predators" are an irrelevent strawman designed to detract from the real issue, which is HER.

HH,<p>Bees make honey. They don't have to be attracted to it. But honey does attract BEARS!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>She is the bee, her dress is the honey and what does it attract? Hm.......<p>The bear does not go after the bee unless there is bait..... so are they predators are is someone setting up the bait? If so, why? <p>HH, sounds like your W has self-confidence issues. She has a great need to know she is still attractive. But what is that need based on? An insecurity of what? Marilyn Monroe was insecure in a similar manner and look what she did to preserve her youth? Yea we don't really know what she would look like as an older woman but we do know that she would not have been sent floating on a ice berg and put out to sea just because she got older. <p>Beauty is only skin deep and but rottenness goes straight to the bones. These shallow headed men she attracts who are only going by her physical side, is that all she wants is a shallow man and not you? Well, HH if she does you are worth more than that and should tell her so. <p>Just my opinion you know. <p>Take Care,
L.

My Dearist friends, Thanks!
The sago continues:
Update on Pastor&#8217;s involvement.<p>First, my DW spoke to me of getting our P the coffee & she also spoke of getting a card to go with it. She told me what she wrote in the card &#8211; thanking him for his help & Prayers, ECT. & wishing him & his family a Happy Christmas. She is going to give it to him in church today. All this is good. I feel she senses I have some anxieties with him &#8211; I have specially mentioned so before. I&#8217;m pretty sure that is why she mentioned the part about wishing his family well. Strange though, we usually have a card we giving some on eon a counter top on desk top &#8211; I do not see this card anywhere. The coffee is in her trunk in bag W/O card. &#8230;hmmm
I can&#8217;t help but be reminded of something here & being purely synical here, I know the reference to his family, in a romantic setting (I&#8217;m not convinced this is the case yet!) that the reference to family does not mean anything. Let me explain. When I spoke to her second OM&#8217;s (the one she said she was with on D/D), she asked for my Dw&#8217;s name & she said that she spoke to my DW once when she intercepted a phone message & told my DW that they were back together, and to back off They have a couple kids BTW. The OMW said my DW told her &#8220;good luck&#8221; &#8211; that was a couple months before D/D.<p>This is example of how committed my DW was to pursue these guys &#8211; I mean I still remember our Pastor speaking of all these Predators out there & with the idea that my DW is the victim here. It kind of gives me a sick feeling like I don&#8217;t think our Pastor really understands some of the dynamics here?! For some reason my DW has divulged a lot more than what I understand is confessed by most WS.<p>Remember, after the first guy had his way with my DW, in our house just after I had called & was on my home &#8211;15 minutes away; he did not call back. She started calling him. She was 250 miles away at her cousins & they have phone records, and she admitted to calling this guy several times &#8211;even 11:00 to 11:30 at night &#8211;evidently not reaching him most times. On Nov. 1, 2000 the first guy stands my DW up for a rondevue, & he evidently had stood her up a few times before. She calls the second guy & this is when the second guy & his W were separated. She drives approximately 15 miles to this second guys place for a sex. Somehow I just cannot embrace this idea that she is a victim here! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] She says she is not responsible &#8212; she is victim of predators??!! These actions just don&#8217;t like the typical victim to me ??? I feel if I try I get assertive with Pastor on these things that I appear like the insensitive guy wanting to have her wear a scarlet letter.<p>Now, when the pastor says that I have to understand that there are going to be predators that are going to hit up on my DW, I don&#8217;t quite get the compassion to feel she is a victim in this scenario?! Remember she & Pastor had met for around an hour & half. Now he is representing our marriage enrichment. I have thing feeling she & he have this great alliance & that is is primarily from her perspective & her needs.<p>Here is example of this new focus with Pastors involvement. There were tow assignments we had from Pastor &#8211; pray daily together & look for ways t express our love to each other. Yesterday was our third day. In bed before we got up I asked if she wanted to pray &#8211; this was how we did it the two prior days. She said she was really awake & did not feel like it. Literally, within two minutes, she was up & getting ready. An hour later we are in car & I make suggestion or ask if she wants to pray. She gives me her satirical tone, &#8220;I knew you were going to suggest this.&#8221; It was like an expression, here we go again, I&#8217;m forcing things on her. She said, &#8220;No, I don&#8217;t feel like it, go ahead if you like.&#8221; In retrospect I probably should have gone ahead, But I just feel like a pawn in her little game at times & I felt I would be really weak to do that.<p>
Yesterday afternoon I had occasion to call Pastors home yesterday in regards his son. He seemed very supportive, & asked how we were doing (it eased some of my anxieties about him) I thanked him for his help & he thanked me for having him over. The he said something I am struggling with. He said that I need to tell my DW that she is attractive. Now I feel a little threatened (remember she had just met him for an hour and a half ,4 days ago) I told him that I do actually. He went and said, I know that you feel she dresses provocatively on occasion & it bothers you. I said, &#8220;yes.&#8221; He said, &#8220;You need to tell her she is attractive even when she dresses that way.&#8221; Now I am to endorse her & encourage her when she dresses in a manner that bothers me?! ????<p>I just do not feel right giving her these compliments about her provocative dress???
I feel she now has this alliance with Pastor that makes me look like I&#8217;m the cause of marital unhappiness here, cause I don't hand out enough complimnets about her provocative dress?? <p>Peace,
HH

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hurrian Hoosier:
<strong> Now I am to endorse her & encourage her when she dresses in a manner that bothers me?! ????<p>I just do not feel right giving her these compliments about her provocative dress???
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>HH,
I have read many of your posts, but do not reply often, because I just simply do not know what I could say that would help. You do have others who give good advice! I read their comments and think, Ooooh!! I wish I'd thought of that!<p>On this issue, however, I would like to add some thoughts: Just off the top of my head, maybe the pastor wants you to compliment her, with the idea that if you DO begin to acknowledge it, it will give her a way to 'tone it down" a little bit? In other words, maybe she is trying to look sexy in your eyes mostly, and once she begins to get that "approval" the others won't be as significant. Does that make any sense?<p>Maybe the "over the top" dress is necessary, since you don't recognize how sexy she is (in her mind), so therefore, she'll get the approval of it elsewhere. (Not that you don't, but just trying to rationalize how she MIGHT be thinking?)>However, if you begin to acknowledge it,a nd enjoy it, it might lessen the need for it OUTSIDE of home. Maybe? Is worth a try. Give her LOTS of compliments on how sexy she looks, how wonderful, etc. <p>I know, being female, that most men just glance at us when we feel we've worked very hard to create a "look" and just grunt, or some other unacceptable level of interest. Maybe she craves getting the attention from you, but will accept if from all these other guys cuase she can't seem to get enough interest from YOU. I'm not saying you don't love her, desire her, etc. Just that she wants the attention lavished on her, and will continue to go over the top until you make her feel as sexy, desired and "delicious" as she can stand. Then maybe the "man-hunting" will stop.<p>Just ignore me if you think I'm waay out in left field here, OK? I'm NOT, have never been a very sexy-looking "kitten" so this is way outside MY realm. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Lupo

Lupo,
Thanks for input.
I gladly welcome any & all perpsectives -- I need help.
Remember, we have sex usually twice a day. and believe me I get very complimentaory about how sexy she looks.
Also, in last few weeks we've done the Glamor photo thing, where she wears her sexiset nighties & undies & I am very expressive vocally & physically with how sexy she is. In fact a friend of mine gave me a digital camera & we had two very explicit photo sessions with lavish vocal & physical compliments from me.
Peace,
HH