Hi all,<p>I've drafted some notes that I will pass along to my brother who I will ask to be the "intermediary" between WW and I in the event that Plan B becomes necessary to save my sanity and love (i.e. as I expect more and more each day).<p>What do you think? If I can't execute a "perfect" Plan A, at least I can try to do a "perfect" Plan B... NO CONTACT!<p>-------------
- If she asks “how I’m doing”, please be vague – “He’s doing well” is about as much detail that she needs. It wouldn’t hurt to mention my location too I guess, if I’m traveling.<p>- If I provide you with an e-mail with content that I want to get to her, please don’t forward on to her as-is. I’d like it if you could paraphrase it for her – reason being that I don’t want her to get a sense that I am actually communicating with her in any direct form – she needs to feel cut-off from me. She recognizes my writing style, and hopefully yours is different enough for her to notice. You can directly forward on messages from her, if you like (see below).<p>- If and only if she says she’s willing to discuss the terms I set out in my last letter to her will I even be willing to entertain any kind of direct contact with her. If she’s looking for contact at all, you can screen based on this fact.<p>- If she sends any message that contains anything that sounds remotely hurtful – directly or indirectly, or even anything that borders on being overly “personal” (e.g. “I just hope you find real love someday,” “I just want you to be happy,” “You deserve better than me,” “I still love you,” etc.), please let her know that you’ve been asked not to pass on these kinds of messages to me – and don’t (part of the goal in this process is to keep my feelings for her as intact as possible, so I don’t need them to go further downhill! You can use your judgment on what might fall into this category – I trust you).<p>- If she starts to become belligerent, aggressive or hurtful (towards anyone) – let me know the general gist.<p>- If she ends up sending me correspondence directly (i.e. e-mail, phone, etc.), I’ll forward it along to you to make the reply (if I feel that it warrants one). I simply won’t respond directly, unless it’s an emergency, as I’ve made very clear to her.<p>- Please keep a record of correspondence – an e-mail folder or something – messages from both of us. Hopefully it won’t be necessary, but a permanent record might be useful.<p>- Some exceptions to these above points are things of a legal nature. If this becomes the case, I’d be willing to have contact with her, but only as necessary by law. (Without kids, I can’t see need for any real contact.)

You are in Plan B, not any one else and it is not fair of you to ask others to be in it with you.<p>If she asks “how I’m doing”, please be vague
Let him tell her what he wants.<p>If I provide you with an e-mail with content that I want to get to her, please don’t forward on to her as-is. I’d like it if you could paraphrase it for her
If you would need to get in contact with her (I take it you have no kids?) then have him pass along a message exactly as you send it to him. Don’t ask him to paraphrase it or else it will end up being something you didn’t want to get to her.<p>If she sends any message that contains anything that sounds remotely hurtful – directly or indirectly, or even anything that borders on being overly “personal” (e.g. “I just hope you find real love someday,” “I just want you to be happy,” “You deserve better than me,” “I still love you,” etc.), please let her know that you’ve been asked not to pass on these kinds of messages to me
Plan B doesn’t mean she can’t/won’t send messages to you. It means you will not respond.<p>If she starts to become belligerent, aggressive or hurtful (towards anyone) – let me know the general gist.
Uh, why? In Plan B you are not to worry about what she is doing. Doesn’t mean you won’t want to but you don’t need to keep checking on her. If you don’t want to know, then tell your brother you don’t want to know when he starts discussing her.<p>If she ends up sending me correspondence directly (i.e. e-mail, phone, etc.), I’ll forward it along to you to make the reply (if I feel that it warrants one). I simply won’t respond directly, unless it’s an emergency, as I’ve made very clear to her.
Don’t forward it to your brother. Keep it or get rid of it yourself.<p>Please keep a record of correspondence – an e-mail folder or something – messages from both of us. Hopefully it won’t be necessary, but a permanent record might be useful
Why don’t you keep this list?<p>If I was your brother, I would tell you to get lost.
You should NOT put your brother (or anyone) in this situation. It is not fair, nor even right for you to ask this of anyone. Things will get skewed and you, your wife or your brother will end up getting hurt/mad/? at someone.<p>Just tell your brother to pass messages as they are received. You do not have to respond to anything she says or does but please do not ask him to “filter” anything for or about you.

J.R. - I agree with Chris for the most part. However, an intermediary is recommended by the Harleys. Frankly, I don't know why anyone would do this for very long, but if your brother is willing, I'd take him up on it.<p>That said, I also recommend you retain an attorney and draw up a separation document or at least get guidance on how to split up your liquid assets and debts. This can resolve a lot of intermediary communication up front, thus limiting all other communication through your brother hopefully to the punch line - when she wants to talk about working with you to rebuild your marraige. Your brother need not pass along anything else in either direction.

Hey J.R.- I did counsel w Steve twice about my plan B. <p>He suggested the intermediary not be a family member.Y'know, the percieved agenda thing.. He also said one purpose of the intermediary was to take the "edge off"...of messages that may otherwise provoke a response to be regretted later..<p>It's tough to find someone to fill that role. I didn't find anyone..<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>That said, I also recommend you retain an attorney and draw up a separation document or at least get guidance on how to split up your liquid assets and debts. This can resolve a lot of intermediary communication up front, thus limiting all other communication through your brother hopefully to the punch line - when she wants to talk about working with you to rebuild your marraige. Your brother need not pass along anything else in either direction.<hr></blockquote><p>Sounds good..<p>Good luck.<p>Dan

>>> Let him tell her what he wants. <<<
Well, thinking about what's in even HIS best interests, rather than risking extended exchanges with her over personal matters that are MY own business, I'm simply encouraging that that NOT happen. I guess if he's happy doing that... doubtful however.<p>>>> If you would need to get in contact with her (I take it you have no kids?) then have him pass along a message exactly as you send it to him. <<<
I suppose - of course, what's the value of the intermediary, really, if the only difference is the e-mail address? Mind you, given the actual amount of information exchange necessary, it's probably not a big deal.<p>>>> Plan B doesn’t mean she can’t/won’t send messages to you. It means you will not respond. <<<
Well, it's my preference to say "you know, I don't want to see $@%! that I will take as hurtful" - this does probably go a bit beyond what it required explicitly, but is something that if can be done, would help me avoid losing even more love. It's a time, after all, to start moving on, and having reminders of her thrown in my face are not good - and if they can be avoided, why would I not try to do so? On the other hand, since it is only speculation, it is probably best dealt with if and when it happens. (And I agree that it's risky since it's open to interpretation.)<p>>>> Uh, why? In Plan B you are not to worry about what she is doing. <<<
Yes, fair enough. It is more of a curiosity thing that I acknowledge I don't need.<p>>>> Don’t forward it to your brother. Keep it or get rid of it yourself. <<<
I'm thinking if she's willfully violated my request - something that SHOULD have gone to intermediary, but came to me instead - by responding directly, I've essentially given in and broken my own Plan B request. I guess once or twice is one thing, but if it were a pattern.<p>>>> Why don’t you keep this list? <<<
Yeah, I had thought for some reason that I would not have access to all information going back and forth, but I would.<p>>>> If I was your brother, I would tell you to get lost. You should NOT put your brother (or anyone) in this situation. It is not fair, nor even right for you to ask this of anyone. Things will get skewed and you, your wife or your brother will end up getting hurt/mad/? at someone. <<<
The intent is not to do anything other than act as an intermediary, with some added requests to ensure that there are no loopholes taken advantage of - examples from others on how they have been. The bit about filtering would be nice to avoid her making me feel like $%@! as I expect she might, but I will maybe just deal with that if and when it happens. (A personal request to her to stop, maybe.)<p>And I think I'll try to find a non-family person to use, as suggested.

WAT,
I was not suggesting he not use an intermediary, just that he not ask his brother to do more than pass the messages.<p>J.R.<p>rather than risking extended exchanges with her over personal matters that are MY own business, I'm simply encouraging that that NOT happen.
Since he is acting as an intermediary, then what happens between you/her are his business, at least to some extent. Sure you don’t want it but what are ya’ gonna do?<p>what's the value of the intermediary, really, if the only difference is the e-mail address? Mind you, given the actual amount of information exchange necessary, it's probably not a big deal.
In your situation, not much. The intermediary has much more to do when children are involved.<p>However in your situation, an intermediary is not gonna do much. Perhaps a bit of financial talk and such.<p>I bet she will still try to get in touch with you for just about anything/everything, at least initially. If she emails you, then don’t respond unless she asks about reconciliation. She has to understand she has to go through the intermediary.<p>Well, it's my preference to say "you know, I don't want to see $@%! that I will take as hurtful" - this does probably go a bit beyond what it required explicitly, but is something that if can be done, would help me avoid losing even more love.
I can tell you what will happen.
She will try to contact you for he same reasons she does now.
Then she will start pleading with you to answer her.
Then it will turn to anger & threats. Eventually she will get the idea if you stick to your guns!<p>At the end of Plan B you will have lost your love anyway. If she does not end up wanting to reconcile, then it is her loss.<p>I'm thinking if she's willfully violated my request - something that SHOULD have gone to intermediary, but came to me instead - by responding directly, I've essentially given in and broken my own Plan B request. I guess once or twice is one thing, but if it were a pattern.
So don’t respond. Plan B is not necessarily NEVER having contact. It is to NOT meet any of her emotional needs so there may be times when it is necessary to have contact.<p>The bit about filtering would be nice to avoid her making me feel like $%@! as I expect she might, but I will maybe just deal with that if and when it happens. (A personal request to her to stop, maybe.)
She will very likely try to do this but if you respond to her to stop, then she wins. She has gotten a reaction from you & she will know she can do it again. Just don’t respond.<p>Plan B is not easy but it does work (may or may not save the marriage though.)

Chris -- sounds like you have some experience in this area, possibly??<p>Anyhow, I agree with your points.. I'm thinking too hard about Plan B, given that it is such a big deal - it is, but thinking too hard about it will only be counter-productive right now. In 13 years, we've talked to each other nearly every single day, even if just a phone call when we've been apart. Maybe 20-30 days when we haven't in 13 years. So it's a foreign concept for me (and for her).<p>I've noticed that with her recently, she hasn't been into e-mailing me much, hasn't responded to many of my e-mails, prefers to spend more time away where she works, and generally seems quite willing to not have me around. So I wonder out loud what Plan B will do - well, I already know the answer - help me regain my life, finally.<p>One thing I did just recently - not sure how wise or not, but I felt it might be important to set the stage - chip away a bit more at her fantasy world... I let her know that for me, divorce would mean I need to sever all contact permanently - and why I need that a) for my own healing, b) respect for my future family. What do I think this might do? It might keep her at home longer, keep her confused, keep her on the fence. She's admitted in the past that she'd like nothing more than to keep "all of us". Yeah... we'll see about that one.

sounds like you have some experience in this area, possibly??
If you will notice the registration date & number of posts at the bottom of my reply...
Also I am registered user #160.<p>This does not include the 5000 plus posts I had prior to the great MB server crash of Spring ‘99.<p>I have not actually done a Plan B because my wife took off Feb 99 & we have had very, very little contact. I have not seen her in over 2 years. It would be pretty foolish if I told my wife not to contact me when we haven’t spoken since Feb of this year.<p>I know the MB principles and I have counseled with Steve Harley a bit and I spend far, far too much time here. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I've noticed that with her recently, she hasn't been into e-mailing me much, hasn't responded to many of my e-mails, prefers to spend more time away where she works, and generally seems quite willing to not have me around.
So Plan B will let her know she is free to continue to do as she pleases and helps you to separate emotionally from her.