Well for those who have been following all of this I ask for some more advice. My wife has stopped all contact with the other man. My wife just left on Sunday to go back to Croatia to see her family and friends for two weeks.
We both did stay at the house for the last week prior to her leaving. At first she said she has no problem with being there as long as I don't ask any questions. Well I didn't ask any questions all week until Friday night. I noticed she kept saying she was working late and then she had to stop by the store on the way home. This was the routine for almost the whole week. Well on Friday night she said she was shopping for three hours and she only came home with two small Target bags. Well I know my wife and that wasn't her shopping. She just stopped there on her way home. So I asked her if she had anything she wanted to tell me. Of course she said no. I asked her where she was on Friday night and she said she worked late and she went to Target. So on Saturday I did some looking into this. Well I am not going to reveal my source of info but I found out that she has been hanging out with two of her other co-workers lately. Basically to make a long story short she went to their place after work on Friday and got high. I think she has been doing this for some time. I don't think this is the first time. From what I could dig up out of the last 30 days she has been stopping by there at all odd hours. About a dozen times or so. A lot of this is when I was living with my brother. I believe she is either drinking or smoking up over there. Also last Sunday night she left the house when I came home to live. She told me and everyone else she spent the night in her car. Well I found out she crashed at these two guys place. So on Saturday I told her I knew where she has been and just for her to tell me the truth. Well she kept saying I went shopping on Friday night and on Sunday night I slept in the car. So I gave her like 20 minutes to tell me the truth. I told her I would rather have her tell me the truth then anything. Well she is in this stage now that she doesn't tell the truth until I tell her how I know where she has been. So after me telling her I know where she has been I want to know what the hell she is doing over there. She swears since what has happened with the other man that is the reason she didn't want to tell me she was over there. She says they are just laid back guys and she just likes to relax over there. I told her to think you are getting high with your co-workers. My wife holds a very good job within the company. I can't believe she is stupid enough to get high with them. People talk and she puts way too much trust in them. I told her what happen these two one time decide to get you high and give you something to knock you out. I said they could do anything to you they wanted. She says but I trust them. I asked her if she wants to smoke up why she doesn't do it at home where it is safe. She says it is no fun smoking up alone. So there was one knife in my back because she is basically saying I am no fun. Then she told me she doesn't want to even be at home with me. There was knife number two in my back. Then she told me she doesn't want to live in a bubble. There was knife number three. Anything that was stable in my wifes life she is leaving behind. If one door says bad and one says good. Well she is going in the bad door. She is so dishonest in all of this. Everything she does and says she does isn't the truth. So how do I deal with this? I can't keep torturing myself in all of this. It is like my wife is going to push the limits of everybody and everything until she gets caught doing it. Like if she got in trouble at work with a drug test. She doesn't want to listen to me or her family. She is acting like a 17 year old and she is 27. Now I am getting this I grew up too quickly because we got involved when we were so young. She has labeled me as being no fun and I always act more like a dad then a father to her. Basically I am always looking out for her and I. I told her why can't I go out with you and your friends. She tells me she can't be herself then. I think my wife is starting to form to lifes for herself. She has the one life with me and her family which she wants us to see her one way. But then when she is alone with friends she is like the party animal. She doesn't want us seeing that side of her. She has never introduced me to these guys she is hanging out with. So now what do I do? My wife says when she comes back she doesn't want to live in a bubble. I can't keep letting her go out and getting high and staying with other guys. This is killing me as a husband and as an individual on what she is doing. Bottom line is she says she can't be herself out with her friends if I am there. I don't know what that is all about when she has shared a lot with me in her life. I think she knows she is screwing up her life but doesn't care to fix it in any way.
In order to fix our relationship we have to spend time with each other learning each other again. We have changed since who we were 8.5 years ago. Also there has to be that radical policy of honesty. I told her about that and she didn't agree to it. Nor did she agree she had to tell me everything that she tells her friends. I always thought I knew what a relationship was about but after reading a few books I really didn't. My wife doesn't know what a relationship is and that is a problem. I can't tell her what a relationship is because she needs to figure this out on her own.
Help??? What do I do? This is just killing me with her not telling me anything close to the truth....

confused_guy,<p>I have similiar situation ... even up to now my WW still saying she did not have anybody (A) while she spend all nights there and I have prove of "love talk" between the two of them ... She denied PA too.<p>I learn to LET IT GO, really LET IT GO. I told my WW, I love her soo much that I let her go and hope she finds me on time when she is back. You could do nothing when they are in their deep fog. Set it free; if she is not back she is not your to begin with. Again avoid LB'ed, you LB'ed all over the map. Keep you snooping for you and not use it against her at all. Just to measure how deep is her fog !!!! or how deep of a [censored] you are in now (forgive me for my french). Stop dwelling ... get focus, focus on plan A, no expectation of filling your EN not even expecting to be allowed to fill her EN !. It is about you and her issue(s) with you in your M, nothing else matter. Fix it, that is the only one under your control.<p>She might not even going to Croatia for 2 weeks, she might spend 1 week w/ OM in Greece or bringing one of OM to her home ... drive you nuts ? see my point ?. Listen to others who try to chase you down until you understand MB, plan A in particular. It is her choice to do what she had done and she is going to do. You could only change her "reason" (not the excuse but the facts) so that she could rethink about her choice again.<p>[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

This situation is ridiculous. She now supposedly ha cut off relationship with the OM but is constantly lying to you and hanging out with other men smoking, drinking and getting high.
She must really think you are a fool telling you she is sleeping in a car at night and you finding out she is getting high with male friends. I have some sad news for you. The chances are pretty great that when she is spending overnights with male friends at their apartments getting high that they are probably having sex at the very least.
Your wife is acting as a single woman who clearly has no respect for you or your feelings. I would worry about catching STD's. I would contact an attorney to talk about your options. Her behavior is so acceptable and degrading to you. What more do you have to endure?

confused guy,<p>It doesn't sound like she is interested at all in maintaining your marriage and is actively working to destroy it. And it is doubly worse because you are ENABLING her to continue in this lifestyle by moving out of your own home. Please consider staying there in your own home and initiating a Plan B by asking her to move. This is YOUR home too and since she is the one who wants a separation, SHE should be the one to move. Otherwise, she will NEVER suffer any consequences for her choices. <p>You need to start thinking about taking steps to PROTECT yourself, emotionally and financially. Start with writing a good Plan B letter and retain an attorney to get her out of your home and protect your assets. <p>What you are doing now is NOT WORKING and is simply emboldening her in the pursuit of this destructive lifestyle. You have ENABLED her in this new lifestyle by moving out and giving her the freedom to carry on, UNEMCUMBERED. Accommodating her is not making her love you, but making her DISRESPECT you. This has to end, confusedguy. It's time to start looking out for your best interests since no one else is.

P.S. Just to clarify, I am not suggesting you take these steps to throw the relationship away, but as steps to :<p>A) protect yourself and start focusing on *YOU*<p>B) shake her up a bit and hopefully get her attention to shift to what she will be losing if she continues to destroy this marriage.<p>As things are now, she is having her cake and eating it too and has NO motivation whatsoever to work on the marriage or to show you respect. If you keep doing the same old things [accomodating her destruction at any and all costs] you will get the SAME RESULTS.

Thanks for all the advice. I was sort of hoping that it wasn't going to get any worse and it has. I understand that I need to start taking care of myself. Do I sit down with my wife and tell her she has given me no respect in any of this? Do I tell her that if she wants to go get high and drink with her friends that she should move out? If I say that I am positive she will go. Do I tell her that she needs to go and when she is ready to work on the marriage then come back? Do I try to communicate this through the counselor so it doesn't get any worse between me and her? We go to the same counselor and I am going to see the counselor this week. I think I should tell the counselor what she has been doing and tell her how I feel about it. My wife doesn't tell the entire story unless you figure it out without her telling you. I think I should ask the counselor to communicate to my wife on where I stand on this. The strange part is that my wife asked me to take her and pick her up from the airport. Also she took the book Fall In Love, Stay In Love with her. I just got done reading the book in two days. I am going 100% forward on the relationship. From her side I am seeing like maybe 2%. But then again there is the fog part because she protects her cell phone like it is a million dollars. We all know U.S. cell phones don't work in Europe. Well at least those on the Primeco plan don't. She is stupid to think that I don't already have all the numbers and names of all her party buddies. They may be in the fog but we are still smart enough to figure things out.
I am getting to the point now that if she doesn't stop some of the stupid things she is doing like lying, well I am about to say it is better for me that she hits the road. I am done protecting her in a lot of this. I am not going to be with the entire family this Christmas because I don't want more and more people to know about this. I was trying to leave the door open for my wife to shape up. This is going on about 11 weeks now. I think when my wife comes back if there isn't any signs of improvement that I am done covering for her.
Bar none I respect her parents enough that if they ask me again if she is doing drugs I am going to answer them honestly. I am really tired of protecting her and everytime she throws another knife in my back.
I did tell her what she keeps doing is really hurting me. Maybe one of these days the fog might clear so she might realize there is another human being in all of this.
Sometimes life just isn't fair when someone else is causing all the damage in it.

cf,<p>Not sure about the logistics here but I would definately give her a Plan B letter when she gets back and let her know that you love her and want the marriage to work but that the way things are now, you agree with her that the best thing would be a separation. However, she should be the one to move since she has initiated the separation. You aren't willing to leave your home. I would do this all in a NON-LB way and talk to some of the old timers here about constructing an effective Plan B letter. There are numerous examples on this website.

I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to say that I understand your strong desire to work things out with your wife. Everyone tells me that I need to get far away from my H and stop all contact with him because he is a horrific liar and he has hurt so many women along the way. I discovered that while we were separated and working on our marriage, he was living with another woman that he got to move to our overseas location and he had a local girlfriend too. I know that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie, but it is just hard because I love.<p>I know that you know what you need to do. I know what I need to do too. I just understand and cry with you that it hurts to be rejected for nothing we have done.