I just read the post by Charlie a few days back - who posted under "message from OW" let me begin by saying that you guys are very kind and open to hear our OW side of things and as Charlie said - although it probably will not be well received - it surely is interesting for us OW to see the other side and as I'd suspect for you guys -interesting for you to see what our side the OW side is like as well.
We are all obviously involved in a very hurtful, very hard issue here when someone is having an affair. Don't think I havn't lain awake at nights with knots in my stomach thinking of the "what if's" for the BS. I can relate so well, you see - I was once an BS a few years back my self. My experiece as the OW has opened my eyes to issues that until this day I had refused to face in that marriage - namely that my exH's OW was not the reason for our divorce - sure she didn't help matters when it came to our working on issues but looking back - I didn't have the benefit of knowing about this board then nor did I have the kind of support and guidance to save that marraige whether she was involved or not. But I went through HELL with self esteem issues for a long time after that - still working on rebuilding that - and I suspect as anyone will who is reading this at this time that these self-esteem issue and this unfinished business is one of the reason's I got involved in this affair. Dosn't make it right or excuse it in anyway - but I'm not blind to the fact that we are usually unconciously or sometimes conciously motivated by our past unfinished business.
The MM I am involved with at this time was a friend of mines boyfriend's friend. Hard to follow, huh. When we meet there was immediate attraction on both parts - that is not unusual - as I recall being married does not exempt you from feeling attraction to others - it was common knowledge that he was in an unhappy marriage - he made this known to all his friends and if as was the case the first night we meet - even to new acquantiances - he talked about his less than fulfilling sex life with her (yes, it was a HUGH red flag for him to talk that way in front of a group of people) and how they were basically living seperate lives as roommates. Well, that was in April. Now, a few weeks later I emailed him a brief "hey, how ya doing email" - got his email off the email joke list of our friends chain. But due to an email glitch - I didn't hear back from him - so I wrote it off - seems he did email me back but due to a glitch in my office email it didn't come to my computer. The next time we meet at our mutual friends house - he asked me about it - I even thought no big deal but looking back - at this time he was in pursuit. And pursue me he did - and I took the bait. We bagan a very intense PA in August - this continued until the end of Nov when we mutually decided that this was not fair to his family - 2 kids nor to me - I have a hard time being 2nd - and I have no right to expect that I should be first in this situation!!! We had one slip since that time - the following week so that would be the first week of Dec. We are still in almost daily contact via email, telephone, etc - we are managing to keep it plutonic - and not sexual - we both are deep into not wanting to totally let the other go and I see this. I don't know if or how long this will last. As I 've mentioned - one of my best friends is soon to marry one of his oldest and dearest friends and we see each other socially quite often - the issue with that - is due to his "seperate lives" situation - his wife never "hangs out with us" Like I've said - I've been in the same tight social circle with him for a while now and I've never, ever meet her - she has been invited to everything that our friends invite him to she just doesn't want to come.
There is a part of me that wants to call her up and tell her - Look, your going to loose him and whether it's to me or to the next girl it's eventually going to happen if you don't start being his wife again - but then - now - there's a part of me that has fallen in love with him - but right now - that part loves him unconditionally - and wants what will make him happy - be that staying with her or continuing with me - oh the joys of "new love" like I said earlier - I'm not green enought here that I don't know that given time that will also change - remember I was married for 9 years!!! So you see folks - and I'm speaking from both sides - there are no easy answers here - but I would appriciate feedback - after reading your post for a few days I have faith in your opinions.
thanks,

A bit of clairication - being new to the lingo here - I was a W(wife) with my ex-H - I'm not sure if BS means Battered Spouse but no one - neither I nor the MM's current wife is battered here. Sorry for the mix up.

A bit of clairication - being new to the lingo here - I was a W(wife) with my ex-H - I'm not sure if BS means Battered Spouse but no one - neither I nor the MM's current wife is battered here. Sorry for the mix up.

ws means wayward spouse... the one who has the affair<p>bs means betrayed spouse... the one who is cheated on<p>op means the one whose is have the affair with the ws<p>I am sorry to hear that althought you understand the dynamics and pain an affair causes, you still choose to have one with a married man. You say that his wife never attends funtions they are invited to so she is not being a good wife. In my previous marriage that was the case with me. In the last 7 years of my marriage I too attended almost none of the functions he was invited to. Why? Because he hid the invitations from me. He usually got them from the mail and took them to his office or threw them out. If the invitation was given to him directly at work or verbally, he never told me about them. The few that I did find out about he said that he did not tell me because he was not going, was on call that night, yada yada yada. Then he'd go anyway with out me. <p>What I wonder from your post is why on earth is he out partying and socializing with out her? Either she does not know she is invited or she does not feel comfortable at these gatherings. If she is not comfortable at them, then he should find things to do with her that make her comfortable.<p>
The moral of my little story here is that unless you are with him and his wife, in the privacy of their home, you have no clue what is going on. You believe what he says about his wife because it suites your purpose and makes you feel ok about your affair.<p>As for his telling every one about their sexless life. Well that is so disrespectful. Why on earth would he tell everyone about this? Probably because it suites his purpose. Don't forget that once again you have no clue if this is correct. How much time have you spent in their bedroom with them? None? Then you have no clue wether or not they are intimate or not. And if they are not intimate, you have no idea why. Perhaps it is he who withholds affection to punish her? There are all kinds of sick dynamics that go on in a marriage that you are not privy too. My previous marriage was sexless for the last 7 years. Again it was not my choice.... my H used it as a sick way of punishing me for every supposed wrong I committed.. like not washing the dishes after working 16 hour days to put him through med school. Don't you feel very sorry for him? Poor guy. Had a wife who got tired and could not keep him in the manner he felt he was entitled to. <p>I think that you should tell his wife. Not the warning you are talking about, but the simple fact that her husband is having an affair. It is her right to know that her husband is misusing her trust.<p>Why are going having anything at all to do with a man who bad mouth's his wife to the world? How many times do you think this little game of his has worked? I wonder how many affairs this has helped him score?<p>
Do you know the things your ex-H told people and his OW (other woman) about you? Were they all true? Were you really the unloving person he said you were? (They all say that.) Bet not. So why do you believe this guy?<p>As long as you still have any contact with him at all you are still having an affair.<p>Oh well, you are not going to listen to what I have to say. For some reason it seems that when a person becomes an OP (other person) they suddenly loose all empathy for the BS (betrayed spouse) and only care about their own feelings.<p>As you can tell I'm not in a very good mood tonight. My ex-H as was serial cheater... he sounds a lot like your new 'honey'. My new husband did quite a bit of cheating in the first 2.5 years of our relationship. As I am once again sleepless tonight I find very little sympathy for OW/OM (other women/other men) tonight. You shared your side as an OW. I'm now sharing my side as the BS. Hope it does not offend but reality is reality.<p>This guy sounds like a lounge lizard who has his come-on down pretty pat. If a guy were to tell me about his martial problems when I first met him it would be a giant red flag.<p>But you will make of your life what you will reguardless of what any wife has to say. Just look at how he treats her. What he says to you. That is how he will treat you if your relationship goes on. It is probably how he is treating you right now.

Zorweb thanks for your reply and many things that you said were right on the money. A few things I'm sure of are 1. he's not a sleeze that does this often - like I said we have friends in common - them knowing him longer than they have known me - one going back to childhood - and I have been around when my girlfriend and his friend were talking about he and his wife. Also, it's a small town - everyone knows the "sleezes" believe me - they do. 2. I know that his wife is getting the invites - my friend ususally does the inviting and ususally calls HER - she obviously passes them along but chooses to not come herself - however, I'm aware that that kind of withdrawal could only come from her spending a long time without getting many of her EN met by him. She has no problem with letting him go out almost each weekend without her and she is aware of where and who he's with and that she was invited as well.
Also, if I've absolutly stopped the PA why is he still around if he's just a sleeze looking for his next victum - he would have been long gone by now and found her.
But that aside, the other things you said were right on. I do not know the how's or why's that thier marriage has become as it is. I do not know that they are each that unhappy with it - many people live in such a state just fine thier entire lives - I do know that he is unhappy with it and that lead him elsewhere.
I know that as long as we have contact it is suppose to be an EA - but is there ever a time that that is not so?
I can't speak for what all MM tell the OW but I know that this MM has been pretty honest with me because we share mutual friends - we have choosen not to reveal this to them - MY decision - so when his name comes up in coversation with bits and pieces of thier info these friends have no idea that we have been intimate and share this.
I'd like to hear from other's too. I know you don't believe it, but I will use your advise - you all speak honestly and openly here - that is what drew me.
thanks

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hailey:<p>Also, if I've absolutly stopped the PA why is he still around if he's just a sleeze looking for his next victum - he would have been long gone by now and found her. <p>Why? Because the thrill of the chase far exceeds the catch. He already knows what he can definitely get.

hailey,<p>You said that it's a small town and you know his friends so you'd know if this were not his first affair. But then you say that his friends do not know about your affair with him. HuH? You cannot have it both ways.<p>The bottom line is that he is married and he is not dealing with his marriage. Instead he is complaining publicly about his wife and having an affair. You say that her needs are not being met either. Why is he having an affair and out partying with out her? Why is he out partying instead of with her doing something they both can enjoy? <p>To answer your question, you are in an affair until you two don’t care about each other in any way. He may or may not be a sleaze and a womanizer on a large scale (he is a womanizer as he is having an affair with you.) But he certainly does not know how to make a marriage work and is not trying. Your best bet would be to send him home to his wife. Tell him to make an honest attempt at making his marriage a relationship that meets his needs. Then, if he has done all that he can, and the marriage does not work. Then, if the marriage does not work out he can leave his wife in the proper way. Then and only then should you even contemplate starting up anything with him again. It is not fair to YOU any other way. Why not give him the books “Surviving an Affair”, “His Needs, Her Needs”, and “Love Busters”. This could help him decide what to do about his marriage… his first order of business.<p>But this is not about him, it is about YOU. I am playing the devil's advocate here because I am concerned about you. You are the one who came here to MB. You deserve so much more then this. You deserve a man who is available to you and loves openly. There is a lot of material on this web site about how to have a good relationship. Have you read it? I would also suggest that you read the book ‘Surviving an Affair”. This will give you a lot of insight into what is going on in your life and into your previous marriage.

I agree with Okieman. It is "the thrill of the chase far exceeds the catch!" This was my H, and our marriage was good! <p>Okieman, what's your story?

<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Hi there Haily,<p> I agree with Zorweb.....you said you would've known if he had done this kind of thing before but yet your very close friends have NO clue. Sounds to me like he is a master at deception and keeping things secret.<p>One other thing about the W.....she doesn't have a clue? I know when I didn't "know" my H treated me terribly.....the last thing I wanted was to spend much time with him. He criticized me continuously (4 active kids at the time with NO help from him). I think you are getting only one side of this story. I think she has a right to know exactly what is going on.....LU

Hailey- You are being very selfish and disrespectful of this man to be in a relationship with him while he is married. He has 2 children for the Lord's sake, get away from him- get yourself in cousneling, and only date available men. If he is unhappy in his marriage it is only getting worse because of you and your relationship with him... his problems wiht his spouse are not your business. Get away from him and run fast. You are being sooo selfish right now, I am sorry for you. YOu should feel awful and be consumed with guilt as you are making a bad situation worse. I am sure you do not like hearing this, but your thoughts that you are not cont ributing to the demise of his marriage lea ve me seething. pray and think about your actions. good luck, start doing what is right.

Also, I bet the wife is home with the kids, ever thought about that... do the kids go to all of these social events... in my book good husbands stay at home with the wife and children and h and w's socialize together. l

I thank you all for your comments but I see that you are not in a place to see past your own issues at this point - you are all projecting sooo bad - is it so hard to believe that a married man can fall in love with someone who is better suited to him - I accepted it in my marriage and my ex and I are to this day very good and strong friends - that folks - is moving on!!
bye

Why did you come here? <p>You either want to leave your MM or you don't.<p>If you really have been the BS before, you wouldn't ask, where these people were coming from.<p>My STBX and are very cordial but I will never forgive the OW for the part she played in the ending of my marriage. Her part is as large or larger than the problems my STBX & I had. Yes, if those problems had not been around, she would never have been an issue, however she was the cause of the end of the marriage, period.

hailey,<p>You say that you were married before and you moved on.... I take it there were no kids involved. I must say that if you continue this and he does devorce his wife and run to you, you will see the pain first hand that you inflicted on those kids. They will most likely need counceling to deal with the hate and resentment towards you and their father for what you two so selfishly did too there family, world, life. Good luck, your gona need it.<p>Stillhurts

sing, stillhurts - I had resisted replying to hailey because I had nothing constructive to say, in keeping with the general principle that those in denial cannot be educated or helped.<p>I only reply now to note that hailey's question - "is it so hard to believe that a married man can fall in love with someone who is better suited to him" - is a hallmark of shallow, self serving rationalization. Yet still, she perhaps cannot see the irony of this statement: yes, they may be better suited for each other in the short run - both being selfish and inhumane.<p>WAT

What are these voices outside loves open door that make up throw off our contentment and beg for more? Don Henley - think about it you guys
I know that my ex's affair didn't break up our marriage - my ex had an affair because our marriage had broken down - as much me as him - I loved him dearly - more than anything at that time - but I let him go - I could not and would not degrade what we had by trying to make him continue to love me - I think I honored our love - the love we had in that way - like I said - he to this day is one of my nearest and dearest friends - he married the "OW" and they are very happy and very well suited for each other - some of us live on a deeper level- selfishness is trying to make someone who no longer loves you - remain in a loveless/lifeless marriage - as for MM doing things for BS- he's begged - I know - friends remember - she is a taker with giving nothing in return -

hailey - selfishness is trying to make someone who no longer loves you - remain in a loveless/lifeless marriage<p>Got to chime in here....<p>Reading this, one might infer that you're saying all of us BS out here at MB are being selfish, because in nearly ALL cases, the WS has claimed this at one point or another - "I'm not in love with you".<p>Well, let's look at that. What are the facts? What does reality tell us?<p>The fact of the matter is that MOST affairs do not result in long-term happiness for the WS. They get to a point where they're convinced they're "in love" or have even found their soulmate. But what happens? The newness, the fantasy, the edge wears off over time. Where are they left, assuming they divorce the BS? No better off. In fact, statistics show less happy.<p>But it isn't this fact that motivates most BS to try to regain their M. It's simply hope, hope for the future. Once you learn about MB principles, you'll see that. That Plan A is about the BS making changes first and foremost for themself - allowing the WS to see these changes, and appreciate that things can be better than they thought possible. That during this time, we do try to make the WS want to be M to us - selfish? No, simply showing what's possible. Why? Because it IS possible to have love, really good, strong love. If the person was treasured enough to be married, then the person can be loved again. If not, it's because of a conscious choice of the WS, driven by.... maybe you can answer that one.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hailey:
<strong>I thank you all for your comments but I see that you are not in a place to see past your own issues at this point - you are all projecting sooo bad - is it so hard to believe that a married man can fall in love with someone who is better suited to him </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hailey, don't be so quick to dismiss opinions that you dislike as 'biased." Just remember, you are the MOST biased person here when it comes to your own situation and these are people who have a fresh, outside view of your situation. <p>Don't close your mind to unpleasant truths and do the same thing you are accusing them of doing. ["not in a place to see past your own issues at this point"]

Okieman, what's your story?[/QB][/QUOTE]<p>Met W in &#8216;88
After 18 months married in &#8216;89(my 2d M)
One son born in &#8216;91
She met OM at work
Divorced in &#8216;97
OM left wife and 2 children
XW and OM now married<p>Don&#8217;t agree that everyone is susceptable to an affair because that implies everything has a price.