Hailey, I am sad to see you in so much a state of confusion. If you have a moral bone in your body you will stop your ea right now... even if the affair is not phy sical you are destroying... yes selfishly this man who you claim to loves marriage... or care about anyway... give him a chance... if the marriage were to end on it's own with out an affiar... then start the relationship... but if married men ask you out or try to get involved with you or you them it is plain wrong. I am sorry to see you are 39, you sound a lot younger. Do you attend church, do you believe in god? It is not just religious... it is the difference between what is right and wrong... with the deceit and lying in the marriage and you in the marriage... at least around or even talking to the H> problems get worse.... not better... you are helping destory a family. I feel sad for you... I am sory if this really was done to you... but maybe you are subconsciously trying to get soemone back... it is wrong wrong wrong wrong. I am sorry that this is going on. <p>I hope you will have the strengh to end all contact. I am not out to attack you, but I am sorry to see that you are engaging in any type of involvement with a man that hurts his family and ultimately him whether you realize it or not. Marriage is about giving and working hard to compromise and make things work together. I will pray for you.<p>L
Thanks,

Honey, yes I attend church - yes I believe in God and Let those without sin cast the first stone. Please do not try to belittle me anymore - it get's resolution to this no where - for me nor for you I would suspect as well. ie - I feel sorry for you - you sound much younger - I did not come here to fight and will not again. I was here to learn I will take my lessons and move on. I do not know what truth that will ultimatly bring me to in this but thank you all.

there has been a lot of hurtful things said today through what I believe is righteous anger. <p>hailey, you quoted this verse Let those without sin cast the first stone<p>Please don't stop there - keep reading. The point is: Go now and leave your life of sin. Please end all EA contact with this MM. <p>John 8:7-10 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?". "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hailey:
<strong>Honey, yes I attend church - yes I believe in God and Let those without sin cast the first stone. .</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, I feel pretty confident that honey is not in an illicit affair with a MM so she is, therefore, qualified to distinguish right from wrong and point this out to you. You did understand that that scripture you quoted WAS an admonishment against HYPOCRISY and NOT against outward judgement of right and wrong, didn't you?

Hailey, realize that a lot of this anger also comes down to the BS not being given "choice" in this whole mess. You and other OP have a choice; you choose to be with the MM/MW. Me as a BS wasn't given the option to know what was going on and to act accordingly. He slept with OW and me at the same time; I wasn't told that he was being unfaithful and since we had been monogomous for ten years no condom was used; what if he had given me an STD? He walked out over and over again without telling me why; had I known it would have saved me a lot of confusion and self deprecation.
I'm sorry but you cannot comprehend what having that freedom to choose taken away does to you. I felt betrayed on many levels. Emotionally, physically in terms of health issues that can arise(I had no idea what OW was like and what diseases she might have) financially as money from our joint account was used to buy her gifts and take her out and so on. I didn't agree to that but then I wasn't given a chance.
You need to uderstand where the anger comes from and why before you condemn us. After all the A was a decision made by you and the MM, not us.<p>[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</p>

Nduli2 <p>The idea of not have a choice in it all is one of the things that has bothered me a lot too. <p>If my h's had come to me and honestly stated their intent, then I could have made an educated decision. The very idea that a person hides an affair says that they do not want to end their marriage. The WS & OP are stealing the BS's rightful options in life. And then they get upset when the BS does not react in overwhelming joy for them.

I am sorry I offended you by saying you sound young... maybe because you have no children --- you have a different lifestyle and you do not understand what it is to take a dad away from his kids,... or for him to leave them. You may not truly know the lord Jesus Christ as your saviour _ i pray that you do or will. I am not trying at all to be mean, judgemental, etc... just clearly SAY regardles of my situation , if I were not married, married, with ot without children I would know what you are doing is wrong. Since I am a MOm of 2, and have gone through this, and have an OW in my life... who has no regard for my family and helps my H get confused... YES, he is an adult and responsible for his actions, but SHE has helped tear him away from his loving family. I hope you will think hard and pray for what you should do, LEAVRE the MM, I ask you, go to your church, talk to your pastor, priest, etc... about your life, ask for guidance, talk to God... HE is sthere and he does not want this life for you. THere is someone out there unattached, and YOU should be able to stand strong alone with God as your partner until you get to that point. I am sorry to see you defend adultery, evan EA. IT IS HORRID TO DESTROY A MARRIAGE, our father does not want this for us... even if you are agnostic... you know it is wrong. STOP What you do. I am not without sin, and I am not a perfect person... but I will not, and never would destroy or come into anothers marriage even in an EA> I am not better than you, and we are equal, absolutely, I am trying to help you see what you are doing is wrong, cruel and hurtful, it is selfish and destructive... no good can come of that which has come of lies. PEACE To YOU>

Hailey,<p>Have you ever thought that maybe you are being used?? You provide a place, sex, loving attention and whatever else. All this is provided without the benefit of any commitment. The OW is always the one who never thinks she is wrong-- she is just being a GOOD FRIEND!!<p>I agree that you should be looking for single guys and leave all MM alone. Period!! You really don't know the issues involved.. There is no HISTORY with you in this situation.

hailey,<p>i never come to OW threads, because they just make me mad, the only ones untill today I have ever posted to are the ones when the OW are begging for help on how to end an A or how to get over an A, when they need encouragement. I admire them.<p>but you didn't sound that way, you sounded like you wanted to stick it to the BS<p>I caused a lot of the problems in my marriage, I couldn't fix them by myself, my STBX choose to sit on the fence for 2 yrs & when the OW finally told him to come to her or forget it, he ran all the way there & you know if it was just me, that would be fine<p>But he left 2 of the most wonderful sons in the world. yes he sees them every week & not just weekends, in fact, he is killing himself driving 3 hrs 3 times a wk or more to see his sons.<p>however even with all that attention my sons are hurting. do they miss thier dad, not like lots of the children here do because he has always travled they are use to not seeing him every day but my OS is not the person he was, he had the very foundation of his life pulled out from under him by his father's selfish acts & that of the OW. She knew how much my OS was hurting my STBX told her, & the problems he was having but still their love was more important than anything even the well being of teen age boy. <p>So how dare you come on this board & try to say some of the things you have said.<p>WS, & OP are toatlly selfish uncaring beings who only think of themselves and not the harm they do to the innocents & no I am not talking about BS, most of us in some ways are not innocent in the faults of our marriabe but no one deserves to be treated like this not even you. <p>You deserve better than some cheating MM. If he wants to be with you end his marriage, but look for your happiness somewhere else you deserve better<p>If you really are trying to break it off with your MM, then I hope you get the courage to block his emails, don't answer his phone calls, & yes you will need to get a new ciricle of friends. If this is what you want good luck.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by always and forever:
<strong>Hailey,<p>Have you ever thought that maybe you are being used?? You provide a place, sex, loving attention and whatever else. All this is provided without the benefit of any commitment. The OW is always the one who never thinks she is wrong-- she is just being a GOOD FRIEND!!
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>An observation:
This is ALWAYS a really compelling argument to me. Why is it always assumed that TOW is looking for commitment. For a LONG time what I loved about MM was that I didn't have to even deal with the commitment question. <p>When I was ready for commitment I stopped dating MM. <p>This is gonna piss sonebody off, but:
who's to say he wasn't getting used. He risked everything. I was just having fun.

Katie Scarlett,<p>Na, it does not piss me off. I know that OP are capable of using the WS. Happens all the time.<p>The reason people have made the suggestion to hailey that he may be using her is that she seems to be upset about the relationship. She is hurting. If she were using him, she would not be hurting because she would be getting what she wanted.<p>The idea that the OP is being used is not universal to all cases.<p>In some cases the OP is being used.
In some cases the WS is being used.
In some cases the WS and OP truely care for each other.<p>In all cases the BS is being lied to, cheated on, and not given the respect to know the facts and tell the truth.<p>Tell me, Scarlett, why do the WS and the OP have to sneak around and lie? Why not just be honest and respectful to the BS? If my H told me he wanted someone else, I'd let him go. If he told me that he just wanted to bonk everything that walked, I'd not get in his way... I would not be here to get in his way. <p>So why the lying? Why? That is what I don't get. <p>So many of the OP who come here seem to think that the BS is somehow keeping the WS captive or something. Like the BS wants to MAKE the WS love them. The fact is that in many many cases the WS is telling BS that they love them, yada yada yada. They have a great sex life. Most people do not want a person in their life who does not love them and who does not treat them with respect. <p>So why do the WS have to lie?

Katie S,
out of morbid curosity I just checked back in - one thing that I've noticed is that I made about 14 post yesterday - some were double post - don't know exactly how that happened - but about 14 of those were from me - there were almost 120 things posted on this board yesterday TO ME. That shows you that the needs here are about them - where were these women helping out each other through their time of distress? NO, they were all to busy ranting and raving to some woman who is boinking a married man and not even THEIR man - talk about selfish - really just go back and read what was going on on this and sister threads and then look at those poor souls who were asking questions and looking for prayers - it's pathetic. By the way, in response to one of these manipulators - yes, I've done my home work and read about some of your ideas to "get the WS to "think about you" while he's with the ow yadayadaya - many of you sound like MAJOR game players - major LB if you ask me - and KS - you are right - not once yesterday not once did I mention that I wanted to marry this guy - heck, I've only know him since Aug - I would never make the decision to marry someone in a span of 4 months -
But back to my origional return - I posted about 14 times - logged off around 8 - yes, had a dinner date - no not with MM - I do have a life - something that I don't think many of you share with me - as evidenced by your number of post here and I be darned - if they aren't still ranting and raving today - I use my energy more wisely - could be why I'm dating someone's husband.

Oh - dinner date was with a single guy - who I also see - it's non-sexual if you wonder (I'm sure you do) like I said I'm not a whore - don't make my life look pitiful - it's definatly not - just to make yours look better.

hailey,<p>Sorry but your last post caught my eye big time. It was actually rather comical to me.<p>Here we support each other, when we are in distress we know someone more knowing will keep us from doing something stupid that we'd later regret, things like throwing out the men and women we love, yelling at them, abusing them, abusing ourselves, our children.
We come here in search of knowledge to make our marriage work. <p>You say we sound manipulative, well guess what, in love and war everything is fair, and when you are being attacked by some "terrorist" who doesn't have a face, a name, nothing but the info that he-she is male-female and boinking our spouses, what you think we are going to do?<p>Protect our families. Yes darn right we will and we will try to do so with all our LOVE and our strength. <p>I do not see how these people are half as manipulative as an OW who claims to "love" a man, yet decides to destroy who he was and his most beloved posessions (kids, marriage, a home), just because they think that a couple of months fling will surpase all.<p>You say you don't want to marry this man, yet continue to talk to him, only talking to him will make him believe that he has no need to work on his marriage, that it is A OK and that nothing has to be taken account, no consequences, everything is just peachy.<p>I am NOT attacking you. I am just telling you, just leave him alone, well what if he goes and finds another woman, who the hell cares? would you like to be friends with such a pig? I know I wouldn't.<p>I am happy you have your own life, so use that to tell him bye bye, go have fun, date and be yourself, leave that sorry excuse of a MM alone.<p>And please do not troll. Here there are people going through very rough times, and they really don't need anybody stirring anything for the pure "morbid curiosity" of yours.

Hailey, <p>You have no clue what my life or that of any one else on here is like. I do have a very full, active life. Unlike you I don't need to bonk someone else's H to feel good about myself.<p>Nor do I have to go to some web site where people are hurting to trash them for entertainment. You are using your time wisely? I hardly think that is a true statement.<p>It suites your purpose to think badly of the BS's here. Gives you absolution. Go see your pastor for that... oh yes, he/she would not give it to you, right?<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

I enjoy reading some of the threads in this forum and occasionally commenting.
I especially get a kick out of reading the WSs gobblety [censored] because as I gain more insight I will use this information to train/educate my growing sons in avoiding these type of women and men.
After spending a career in the military, there is nothing that I have not seen. What I can verify with confidence is that adulterous relationships go nowhere. You may not see the destruction right away, but give it time. It may take six months, a year, a decade or several decades but devastation is inevitable.

Alostwife,
You are very wise for 19 - I heard what you said -

<strong>Katie Scarlett,<p>Na, it does not piss me off. I know that OP are capable of using the WS. Happens all the time.<p>The reason people have made the suggestion to hailey that he may be using her is that she seems to be upset about the relationship. She is hurting. If she were using him, she would not be hurting because she would be getting what she wanted.
</strong>
I know that for me for a long time it was a fun/recreation kind of thing. Then after a while I developed a lot of feelings for my (now x)MM. He was a part of my life. So to see him hurt and torn hurt me. I was to engaged to untangle myself from that situation for a long time. And when I finally did - it was painful.<p>In all cases the BS is being lied to, cheated on, and not given the respect to know the facts and tell the truth.<p>Tell me, Scarlett, why do the WS and the OP have to sneak around and lie?
I NEVER sneaked, I never lied! I told anybody bold enough to ask me questions the truth. You know my drama queen tendancies. The truth creates FAR more drama than a lie. He lied about it a LOT (I now know). I was always bold and in your face about it. To a certain degree it was a game to me. (geeze I hate saying that on here-i'm not trying to rub that part in) but it was. It was my addiction. Just another way to get high.<p>Why not just be honest and respectful to the BS? If my H told me he wanted someone else, I'd let him go. If he told me that he just wanted to bonk everything that walked, I'd not get in his way... I would not be here to get in his way.
The thing is that some people don't want to know the truth. I told the BS and got sh-t on here for having done so.<p>So why the lying? Why? That is what I don't get.
I can't answer that because I always told. His mom asked, I told her. His sister asked, I told her. They kept the lie. He kept the lie. I felt like as long as I told the truth I was ok. If someone had a problem with it, I assumed that they'd say something. <p>So many of the OP who come here seem to think that the BS is somehow keeping the WS captive or something. Like the BS wants to MAKE the WS love them. The fact is that in many many cases the WS is telling BS that they love them, yada yada yada. They have a great sex life. Most people do not want a person in their life who does not love them and who does not treat them with respect.
You believe what you're told somtimes. Or rather you believe what you want to believe. I can't speak for all OP.<p>But if you love a person (and I came to really love my MM) you want to believe that they're telling you the truth. And if they keep staying
with their spouse then OP has to make a decision as to what they will do next. BS love their mates and often wait for EMA's to end. OP love their partner and wait for the marriage to end.<p>Having done a bit of research in this area [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I think that OP and BS's have more in common than they think.<p>Obviously there are some major differences. But there's a lot that's the same to.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> So many of the OP who come here seem to think that the BS is somehow keeping the WS captive or something. Like the BS wants to MAKE the WS love them. The fact is that in many many cases the WS is telling BS that they love them, yada yada yada. They have a great sex life. Most people do not want a person in their life who does not love them and who does not treat them with respect. <hr></blockquote><p>I agree completely with you zorweb. If my WH had told me: "You know what? I am not in love with you anymore than I am in love with my coffee mug, lets brake it off" I'd have let him go.
I had a life back then, I had men wanting to date me for the first time in my life, I had (and I just discovered no long ago), I have the world in a silver platter just awaiting for me to shed the dead weight of a WH to go get it.<p>All would be easy and peachy, but I decided not to cheat myself, to let my WH open his eyes on his own, with me by his side and to mend our marriage together and be happy.<p>The OW is long gone out of the picture. My WH never wanted to marry her or have any kids with her. Comming from his own words "She was stupid, greedy, manipulative and selfish, and I was the most stupid retarded and awful creature in the world for ever liking her, because I realized I never loved her at all".<p>So I am Queen of this domain, have your pitty for somebody else. I know who I am and I know what I am worth, I know I can have anything I want and OW is as miserable as a being can be, she is 10 years older than I am, has no friends and nobody to care for her.<p>I know I am much better than her, so much better not even a minute of my worry is spent on her, all my energy is settled on making my husband a better man not for myself, but for his own self steem and for our children-to-be.

There are 2 points that I want to make here.<p>#1-Hailey, while I totally see what you're saying here. please don't come on here and pick on these guys. There are a lot of good people here just trying to live their lives. <p>This place is frustrating as hell. Many BS's see this whole thing 1 way and one way only. There have been a lot of times that I held my tongue out of respect. The (unspoken) rule is that we (OP) don't come and sh-t on their board and they don't come and sh-t on ours. Ours is glory b.<p>This is their home. their place of safety. So Rather than pick on them, observe, take what you want and leave the rest. Because it's not fair for folks who show up here, who really need this kind of support to feel spit on. I know that when I was venting on my borads I didn't want to hear crap from bitter BS's.<p>Point #2
About marriage/commitment. Like I said in another post. My relationship with MM was not nearly as serious as these guys want to think that it was. He was my favorite playmate. I wasn't trying to "end his happy life" with his family. It wasn't about all of that.