I think you had a hand in bridging this thread to take a different route Lexxy - thanks

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hailey:
<strong>you're right zorweb - I do get a "high" a happy feeling even when we talk about what I'm buying my nephew for chirstmas - I guess I didn't think that he does to - that's interesting - where did you find that - I've read a bit of that in evolutionary psyschology books - there was one called - I can't remember but it was about the physical reaction of attraction and our bodies - it was on the discovery channel. Anyone know what I'm talking about.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I read the same thing in a book called "The alchemy of Love and Lust". Do not recall the author tho.<p>Jo

wow Z -- that is so interesting!<p>It strikes a cord with me also. There is something about his smell; his voice; it just does something to me. Definitely a chemical thing.

There are several bodily chemicals and hormones we secrete when with our spouses or SO's.<p>I read when a H & W sleep together for a long time they naturally secrete and share a hormone that's bonds them together, a familiarence hormone, if you will.<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

That was the book, resilient - I remember the title now - wow, sometimes it can break down to the most basic of things - and I suppose it doesn't take long to establish that pattern - I can only imagine how confusing it must be for a WS - having a chemical reaction with both people - that's strange but it makes sense as to why it would take total seperation - just like an addiction.

Cannot remember the name of the book. Read some fo the one day while just hanging out in a book store... I love those ones with the big comfy chairs and tea/coffee. Take the kids there to get a break and read. <p>Anyway, the book's title was something about breaking addictive relationships. I'm going to go look for the book because every so often I find I want to quote some of what I read.<p>Will let you all know when I find it.<p>The book recommmended to stay totally away from a person for 1 solid year.<p>And yes hailey, he is feeling the high too. That i why he is calling you... to get his fix.

Hailey, my twin: this is for you<p>katiescar@hotmail.com<p>Here is a bit of advise that was the best I ever got. And a piece that you're not likely to hear on MB.<p>You don't have to be ready to release this man. You only need to be ready to talk about it.<p>I think that BS's would like to think that we'll just drop the guy cause it's the "right thing to do." It doesn't work that way. <p>Keep talking about it. E-mail me if you wnat to.<p>I've got work to do today.
More later.
KS

Hailey, Scarlett... every one else for that matter<p>If you want to see what this forum is really about follow the link below. This poor guy needs help. He is not all of those gross, unflattering things that have been said about BS here in the last few days. He is a human who is hurting so bad that it sounds like he may not make it through X-Mas. If you want to know the impact an affair has and want to do something good for another human in great distress. Please go help this guy. If nothing else give him a hug and get him talking.<p>
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=014334

Zorweb I read that post - It brought tears to my eyes too. But, I don't know if he'd want to hear from me - would it be appropriate to say anything to him? From me that is. But somebody go there and help him out - so I'm getting off of here- he needs you guys!!
Katie S - I'll be emailing ya in a bit.

Yes Hailey, I feel that innocent conversation can have a devestating effect on the MM's relationship with his W. I truely feel that I am in that type of situation now. My H works with the OW. Although things have been tremendously better in our M we still have a long way to go, and I feel like these innocent conversations are a big obstacle. I think my H did not have the benefit of getting through withdrawal and putting the worst behind him. I feel like his withdrawal comes and goes and that it is being prolonged by continued contact. My H is not a big talker and I think maybe somedays he doesn't want to chit chat with me because he has already covered all the not-so-important points of his day with the OW. She is fulfilling the conversation need, and I get the silent treatment. <p>I feel as long as he continues to have these innocent talks it will prevent him from totally opening up and sharing his whole life with me. And he knows how much his friendship with her hurts me so he will continue to lie to me. He has told me that it felt like he was living 2 lives, one at home and one at work. I think he needs to decide which life he wants to live and live that one to the fullest. And I think we all know that he is not going to leave me and his children. So why continue this destructive relationship. Wouldn't it be easier for EVERYONE to get on with our lives. I've had this conversation with many people on this forum and I consistently hear that even though these couples were in recovery and things had been improving...that their M's were tremendously better immediately after all contact had ended.<p>Hailey, I could go on and on about this and go into elaborate details and give examples. This is something that I feel very strongly about. Please do what is in the best interest for everyone, and end all contact (even the innocent kind).<p>Katie, knowing how everything turned out for you I don't understand why you would not encourage her to cease contact. I hope Hailey does not waste 10 years of her life involved in this "frinedship".<p>Heck

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>
I think that BS's would like to think that we'll just drop the guy cause it's the "right thing to do." It doesn't work that way. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>OK, Katie, how does it work? I'd really like to know.<p>Hailey, in an reply further up this post, you made an analogy to your pain as being like that of childbirth - something good comes of it. Where in this analogy can I place the good that I'll get from the pain of my wife's affair? ...and please don't relegate it to what I can learn - I could have learned everything had my wife given our marraige a chance.<p>To both of you - please read my signature line and help me understand how my wife's lover justifies his behavior. What kind of organism plunders a grieving mother and rips the remaining family from a grieving father and former friend? Help me understand, please?

Heck,
I think you missed what I was trying to say. For 10 years I wasn't ready to talk about it. I saw it in black and white.<p>Either we were together or we were apart. There is a middle ground. That middle ground is NOT daily communication with him.<p>Being ready to talk about it means that you're (the general you) ready to look at what's going on. Consequences, feelings, etc.<p>For me, once I understood why I was in this situation then there were very few decision to make. The relationship fell away naturally.<p>And at the same time I was ready for an appropriate one. No real and lasting change is instant. But if you're ready to talk about it. I mean REALLY talk about it. Then that's step #1.<p>If she'd met the guy once or even just slept with him once then i'd say "run like the wind." But that's not the case here. Hailey's been walking into this forrest for 4 months. It may take her that long to walk back out.

WAT,<p>The point I think they are trying to make is that they do not care if it hurts someone's marriage or not. What matters is what THEY, the OP get out of the relationship.<p>I know from experience that there is only one way to stop an inappropriate relationship. It's just like stopping smoking, drug addiction or alcoholism... cold turkey with all the support you can get.<p>I am so sorry that things have not worked out for you and your son. I know how much all of this hurts. Some day, when you are feeling much better then today, you are going to make a great catch for the rigth woman. You have grown a lot through this. Wish is could have been an easier path.

Worth - I didn't liken my current situation as the Ow in an A to the pain of giving birth - I was talking about my own divorce a few years back and what I went through in that growth process following - It was terrible - it hurt horribly - and I ment that it was a pain that I lived through and got a worthwhile result out of. My dad told me at the time something that I will never forget - he said - "you've had some pain and hurt in the 30 years you've been here on this earth and I can say as someone who's on the good side of 70 that if you're lucky enough to live another 30 years - they'll be more - if you're lucky" Life doesn't come with a guarentee that we will not hurt and have pain - exactly the opposite - you can pretty much bet that you will - you will have loss - people you love will leave - sometimes by thier own choice - sometimes by death - but we can't love without risking it. And I can say that even for the immense pain of that divorce that knowing how it would end and how I would suffer the severing of that love - I would do it again - that's the most valuable lesson I took from that - I'm not afraid to hurt - I think the love is worth the risk. Even when I loose.

How true it is that at the beginning of any relationship anything is perfect. Hailey-since the post is directed toward you might I say what my therapist has told me You always love that new feeling you get when you meet someone, they haven't hurt you, they are your true love, they say the best things, their your soul mate, but in the end if he or you aren't fixing yourselves, the relationship is going to end up the same. My h. had a short affair with his "soul-mate". Yes, they were more alike, yes, she wanted to do all the things with him, that I wouldn't. Yes, she thought like me when I first met him. But you know what, my h. came back because "I love her, like I love you, but different. I have had seven years good and bad." That is what my h. wrote to her when their a. was made known to all of us. I felt for her and blamed myself for her being sad, but you know what, she knew he was married, regardless of what he had said. I hope that you might sit back and tell yourself that indeed if you were both meant to be together, than you know what, he would've sacrificed his wife to be with you. If he really "loved" either of you than he would let both of you go, fix his inner turmoils, and then pursue a relationship. I wish you the best of luck. Maybe his w. is a b**ch,maybe she's not giving him anything, but if he "loved" you, wouldn't he want to give to you the things he complains he doesn't get from her. Ask him if he loves himself because it is my philosphy that you cannot love someone else, until you love yourself.

Hailey, <p>I too have a problem with comparing childbirth and the associated pain with the pain of ending a relationship (especially when there is an affair involved).<p>------
An affair is destructive to everyone involved.<p>Child bearing and childbirth is about growth. There is nothing destructive about it.
-----
The pain of a lost love and infidelity are suffered in the heart and soul and leave long lasting scares on the psyche. Many times it is the children, the most innocent in the equation who suffer the most.<p>The pain of childbirth is physical and the body has a way of dealing with it, sort of an amnesia so that the pain is not really remembered.<p>-----
Child birth brings with it the gift of new life.<p>Lost love and infidelity take away many gifts, like innocence and pure love, self respect, self esteem. It breaks up families sometimes.<p>------<p>I am sorry, but your analogy just does not work.<p>All that you say here about loving, and the inevitable pain in life, etc is something we all know. Everyone here on MB will get beyond this pain one day and move on. Most of these people will go on to either rebuild their current marriages or on to new relationships. What you do not seem to get is that what is going on here is that people are in the middle of handling their pain now. This is new to the people here. They are still in the stage where the pain is strong. Tell me, how long did it take you to come to terms with the end of your marriage and your H's affair? Did you do it on one afternoon? On day? I think not. Well the people here on MB need to be allowed their own time to heal. It almost seems like you begrudge them that.<p>Almost like you are saying 'get over it already just like I did." How would you have liked people to come into your safe relationships and safe places when you were working things out and rub your face in the fact that your H no longer wanted you. That you had driven him into the arms of another (I'm not being mean here.. I'm using your own words. Unless of course you were being mean in using them!!??)<p>That is what many of the people here feel you are doing. So please think a little more about what you said. Wat does not need a lecture on how wonderful an experience it is for his wife to do what she did. He has a little boy who lost his brother last year and now, for all intends, his mother this year. And WAT himself is in terrible pain. And all you can do is give him a pep talk about how his pain is wonderful and will lead to greater things? Why don't you go tell that to his son?<p>While you are at it, why don't you tell it to my son and my three stepchildren? You know the kids who still cry themselves to sleep almost every night. My son because his dad tore his family apart with adultery and mental/physical abuse. And my step kids whose mother walked out on them. They still cannot understand why their mommy loves "Mr. Jimmy" more then she loves them. Tell them that it is ok because their dad and I have met and married. After all we grew through the pain of lost loves did we not? So their mom loves Mr. Jimmy(the red neck, physically abusive, alcoholic). And their dad loves me. Everything must be alright for them. They have me as their new mom. They even have their old mom a couple of times a year when she can find the time to fit them in. Look in the eyes and hearts of these children and tell them it's ok to just flit from one relationship to the next because we are all going to grow from it.<p>You may grow. I may grow. we are adults. But these children suffer untold scares. Most of us who are fighting for our relationships are fighting not just for ourselves but for our children too.<p>You may want to look a little closer at the people on this board. Their pain is real and very deeply rooted. Their lives are falling apart. The one thing I can tell you from the time I have spent here is that they will come out OK. They will recover and be better people no matter the course their marriage takes. They are survivors. But in the mean time, while they are here, pouring out their souls and trying to find some sense and peace in their current situation, please be sensitive to their needs. This is their safe place. The place for those who are trying to recover their marriages. You, as on OP, are a visitor here.<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Zorweb my parent taught me self suffiencey and that my happiness is up to no one else but me. For that I love them for that I honor them and for that I live a calmer more peaceful and centered life. I do not define myself by my relationships - my parents gave me a core to do that by. My happiness is up to no one else but to me -

p.s. zoreweb, if you want to fight - go somewhere else where someone will fight with you - I will not.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I do not define myself by my relationships - my parents gave me a core to do that by. My happiness is up to no one else but to me - <hr></blockquote><p>
But hailey, aren't you defining yourself now as the other woman to a married man? Is that not how you view who you are at this stage of your life? Are you preoccupied with this relationship? And are you happy?<p>You will increase your probability of finding happiness by removing yourself from your relationship with MM. Yes, even the casual conversations. <p>If your current situation is not making you happy, make the changes necessary to improve your odds. Don't settle for second best. Look for someone who will proudly proclaim you as his love. <p>You deserve better than this. Claim your freedom.
Estes

What was it you guys that Elanor Rosevelt said about inferiority? Zorweb - you seem to know a lot of trivial info - something along the lines of no one can take away your self-respect and dignity and make you feel inferior with out YOUR permission. That Elanor - she was a bright one - hey.