I'm posting this on a separate thread because I don't want to continue that other thread any more than it has to be. I disapprove of the attention that it's getting while others suffer here. I'll admit, I read the first page of replies, and I just scanned the last (with your question on it) to see if SHE was still replying.<p>Anyway, in answer to your question about where a place was for WS. I think that THIS FORUM can be for any WS, BS, or OP who is interested and respectful of the RIGHT THING.<p>Don't get me wrong, people are going to vent, occassionally be disrespectful, and ruffle a few feathers. But as long as we're all working towards the same goals: Truth and rightiousness, happiness, and building better marriages, then I think we'll all get along.<p>A note about building better marriages, I DON'T necessarily think that has to mean building a better CURRENT marriage. There are some people who SHOULD get out of a marriage. I think any type of physical abuse, and repeated mental, emotional, adulterous abuse are just causes for ending a marriage. <p>I DO NOT think that finding one's "soul mate" elsewhere, falling out of love, and any other of the myriad of excuses that are given are EVEN CLOSE to a real reason to end a marriage- ESPECIALLY WHEN CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED! These are all really just lazy excuses, that we come up with when we don't want to work hard for a marriage.....well guess what, marriage is hard work, whether it be the current one, or the future one with the "soul mate."<p>So, in short, you ARE welcome here- as long as you are respectful. The same goes for many of the BS here, some haven't been respectful some times and have been called out for it.<p>Hope this helps,
Kev<p>No need for anyone to reply, I just wanted TTF to get a response.<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

Not so sure about that...<p>...my untimate goal is to do what's best for myself. Not necessarily to hold my relationship together. I feel like there's two parts of me...the part that wants to stay and work things out, and the other part...the part that wants to be free, that's never been as happy as they were with the OM. I know that the affair was wrong, but what's done is done, and I'm still left with the emotions to deal with. I almost feel like I have two people inside of me, and they're screaming at each other.<p>These aren't feelings that I would expect a BS to be able (or to want) to relate to. That's why I was asking about a forum for WS. I would just be seen as selfish, when I'm well aware of and sympathetic to the hurt that my own SO is suffering.

OK, I'll reply....didn't intend to, because I didn't want this thread to end up like the other couple dealing with OP in the last couple of days.<p>I CAN appreciate your feelings. As a matter of fact, I was once the WS in an EA. I'm not proud of it, but maybe it gives me the chance to understand things from that side a little bit.<p>The simple fact that you ARE torn (two people inside as you put it), is proof that you DO know what the true and right course is. And that fact alone indicates to me what is truly "BEST for you," at least in the short term. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to, nor can I control your (or anyone else's) life. But there is a right way, and a wrong way to deal with problems in a relationship (whether that be a business, dating, or marital relationship).<p>The right way is to resolve one relationship before embarking on another. The wrong way (and the reason we're all here) is to go out and find a new relationship before figuring out if the old one is even worth saving. Once that new relationship is found, the old one OBVIOUSLY doesn't look or feel satisfying.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I feel like there's two parts of me...the part that wants to stay and work things out, and the other part...the part that wants to be free, that's never been as happy as they were with the OM.<hr></blockquote><p>I wouldn't expect you to feel any differently, ESPECIALLY the part about never being as happy as when with OM. Think back to your (I'm assuming you're married) wedding day, or the day you were engaged, or the day your children were born (if there are any). Can you truly tell me that you weren't INFINITELY happy on those days? You may be able to say the words, but you'll NEVER convince me that they're true.<p>Those days are long gone, the passion is long gone, the desire is long gone. And none of those things can EVER be regained as long as there's an OM in the picture. It's just not possible (IMHO).
Now, were one to realize the part about a right way and a wrong way from above, then they could put the OM out of their mind and heart(in time, it would definitely take time). Only then would one be able to truthfully evaluate the M and see if those long gone days are yet possible. And you know what, I believe that they are. <p>Maybe it's just the optimist in me, but remember, I was on the other side of this issue once. I thought I was in love (I may or may not have been), I knew that wasn't "in love" with my wife, I didn't think I wanted my M, I was ready to give up our wonderful past, present, and future for.....WHAT? A hope, a possibility, a fleeting moment of that passion?<p>What it boiled down to for me was the simple fact that it was WRONG. I HAD to know. I/we ended the EA, I dedicated myself to trying to act as if the M was what I wanted, I "faked it until I made it" (I've seen that in a couple of other posts, a very apt description). And you know what? I can't even imagine my life right now without my wife. It's not because I need her, but rather I WANT her. I never told her about the EA (until her D-Day), and it's eaten away at me. I was afraid of losing her, but now, that seems so silly, so disrespectful. She DESERVED to know. She NEEDED to know. I NEEDED to tell her. My fear was based out of need, and fear. Now, I'm working on respect, and love, and a vision of a wonderful future - TOGETHER.<p>Why do I tell you all this? Because you, of all people, deserve to know. You deserve to understand that falling "IN LOVE" again is possible. You deserve to understand that the feelings that you're denying MAY have been there, only forgotten. You deserved to know that the feelings that you're having now may not last, may be forgotten in the future, may be denied.<p>It's about love (REAL, MATURE LOVE), respect, honor, right and wrong, RE-finding passion and desire. In short, it's about the JOURNEY! Many of us take for granted that we've arrived, but the journey is where all those things are found. If we think we've gotten there, we should just turn right around and go back....for the journey.<p>
Well, I'm losing my focus and beginning to ramble, so I'll close.<p>Take care, and God bless,
Kev

I know what you're saying, but...<p>*we've never married (even though I wanted to - he didn't)<p>*we haven't had children (I thought about it, but he doesn't want them, so he went ahead and got a vesectomy)<p>*I got involved when I was very young (16), and he's a few years older. Of course, in the beginning, I had this fairy-tale prince charming view of relationships - but I grew up and that view faded pretty fast (I'd say within the first year) from disappointment after disappointment. For years I told myself that this was just "how it really is".<p>*My SO was a self-absorbed selfish jerk, and I was an overly-defensive wishy-washy doormat.<p>*Before having my affair I had been unhappy for years, with repeated attempts to get my SO to therapy with me (unavailing attempts).<p>I know NOW that my unhappiness was my own responsibility to fix, and that the affair was wrong...and I'm working on fixing myself. That's how I'm trying to look at this phase in my life...fixing myself.<p>I just have doubts about my future with my SO...I mean, to be happy, we would have to throw out our old relationship almost entirely, and replace it with a newer, more mature version. On top of that fact is the fact that I miss the OM terribly. I'll be sitting in traffic and I'll find myself tearing up because of stupid stuff like thinking of his smile, of his laugh.<p>It's just damn hard sometimes to do things the right way...ultimately rewarding...but hard nonetheless.<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

LOL...my therapist is always going on and on about "the journey"...maybe that's what he meant [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

TTF--<p>Just two quick comments tonight, I have an early day tomorrow.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I just have doubts about my future with my SO...I mean, to be happy, we would have to throw out our old relationship almost entirely, and replace it with a newer, more mature version. On top of that fact is the fact that I miss the OM terribly. I'll be sitting in traffic and I'll find myself tearing up because of stupid stuff like thinking of his smile, of his laugh.<hr></blockquote><p>First- the newer, more mature version of the relationship---> EXACTLY, no matter WHO it's with, that's what you will have to do. Hopefully, if you can (basically) Plan A yourself, make yourself better, learn about yourself, try to meet SO EN so that he'll hopefully begin to meet yours, the two of you can BUILD upon the relationship you've had with a newfound respect, love, and passion.<p>Second- The second half of the quotation above is known as withdrawl. It DOES pass. I'll give you an example, but as you were involved with your SO so young, I don't know if it'll apply. Were you ever in love before you hooked up with SO? If so, did that love ever find someone new, breakup, move away? If so, do you remember the feelings that you felt afterwards? If you hadn't been in love before, or you don't remember, let me assure you that the feelings you're having for OM are just that- withdrawl. It WILL PASS. <p>And when it does, then you can REALLY figure out what you want/need out of your current relationship. I'm not saying that it'll work, it may well not, and that's ok. But you've got to figure it out the right way.<p>Here's a quotation from my wife when she's been talking about trying to see if she still wants to be married to me. This is assuming that you've had ANY good times in your current relationship. She told me that she needed to see where OUR relationship stood before continuing with OM, because she didn't want to be caught in a situation saying to him, "See what I gave up for you, and now you're acting like THIS????"<p>Make sense, I hope so.<p>That's all for now, I need to get some sleep.
kev

TTF,<p>Kevco has given you some very good advice here. No all relationships can be saved or even should be saved. What he has suggested will have a two fold benefit for you. By Plan A'ing and following the MB concepts you will become a better person and learn better relationships skills. Then you will either recover this relationship or be able to move on knowing that you did all you could to save this one. <p>If on the other hand you decide that there is nothing at all to save in your current relationship. Then the MB concepts can still help you grow as an individual and can help you start your next relationship on the right foot.<p>Z

TTF<p>As a WS, I can tell you too....your therapist, kev and zorweb are giving you very good advice..it is a journey...fraught with potholes from Hell!! Any learning experience is...new, old, or recurring ones...its like watching a movie more than once and each time you see something new or see something at a different angle...you never stop learning. The two people inside you (and I know there are) are the selfish one vs. the one seeking the real truth about YOU!! It is the real you that has been covered up by your past experiences and relationships..the one that has learned so many things, the one that fears what happens in the unknown world. Keep working toward that one....the selfish one....well, that was the person in me that led me down the wrong path.....<p>It doesnt matter to me that you are a WS, OP, BS, or family pet....all that matters is that you WANT to improve yourself...which in turn improves everything around you. That starts with asking the toughest questions...which sometimes, truly, have the simplest answers....not always, but sometimes. Hang in there and keep working!! You do have a source of help here in MB, but like kevco said...it must be respectful, or you will get the backlash of every hurting BS (and sometimes WS) in here!!<p>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<p>Trueheart

Kev,
I'm under big time contraint, but wanted to thank you for checking in with me & my issues.
I'm feeling fine & My DW & I have had a brief but open & frank discussion about these things we've been dancing around with in last week or so. And I think it kind of cleared the air and she seems a little less tense.
I told her that I met with our Pastor this morning & I generalized what I spoke to him about.<p>I hope all is well with you considering. I know you know these concepts really well & that you have your hands full with pleanty of challenge.
My Prayers are with you & have a happy holiday!
Peace,
HH