Dear Katie:<p>Previously you stated:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It's so hard for me to understand that while I had this magical (and extraordinaryly hard) relationship, there were those who were severely suffering at the same time. <p>I have lived a life that is ALL about me. And I have loved it. But it's immature and short-sighted. And the time has come for me to think more expansively. <hr></blockquote><p>YES! You're getting it! You admit that you were immature and short-sighted. And, you recognize that the time has come for you to think more expansively.<p>Kudos to you in making this very important first step [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] !!!!<p>
But wait--I feel you backsliding [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] ...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Katie said: This is the thing for me. In my heart I still feel like maybe it was no big deal to them. Maybe they really didn't know. When i'm thinking about it I often think if it effected them, as opposed to "since" it effected them. I have never seen proof that anybody cares what happened between he and I. To a certain respect is doesn't seem real. Kind of like if a tree falls and nobody hears it... I wonder ALL of the time if this affair had any effect. <hr></blockquote><p>Okay, I'm having trouble with this statement-- specifically, I'm having trouble trusting what you are saying here. After spending months on this board, and reading the heartfelt posts of many BSs, how could you possibly think that "maybe it's no big deal?" <p>What happened to that wonderful, wise woman that said: "More and more these days I get the idea of esteemable actions and global community. That in helping create an environment where his children/wife were wounded and sad, I helped create sadness for the planet and ultimately for myself." ...Bring her back PLEASE [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] !<p>As for you saying, "maybe they really didn't know,"-- I am confused. What about the confession letter that you sent MM's wife (??):
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Later I sent a confession letter to his wife. Kind of a major LB to him as I had no idea how that action would be received. But it was part of what I needed to do to let got. <hr></blockquote><p>Just because MM's wife did not respond, does not mean that she wasn't/isn't hurting. <p>Or, perhaps MM kept the letter from his wife (???)...or perhaps she did read the letter and didn't feel a response to you was necessary(???). <p>Of course, it is possible that she does NOT care. She could have possibly been so far removed from the marriage that it was of no surprise or concern to her. However, even if this were true, I still believe it's unbecoming to adopt the stance that "what someone doesn't know, can't hurt them." And, again, I ask you to reflect back on your own words regarding GLOBAL COMMUNITY.<p>Furthermore, you said to Sheryl:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I don't know what to say to you. As I was single person who was childless when my A began my expereince was VERY different.<p>I never lied, sneaked or pretended to ANYBODY about our relationship. <hr></blockquote><p>Are you certain? What about to yourself? Can you not see that you deceived yourself?<p>Examine what you say here:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I&#8217;d say &#8220;what about your W?&#8221; And he&#8217;d say &#8220;what about her?&#8221; In time I was thinking, &#8220;why am I so concerned about this woman that I don&#8217;t even know. He&#8217;s not. He knows her, not me. He made promises to her, not me. I&#8217;m tossing and turning thinking about her and he&#8217;s sleeping like a baby. Clearly I&#8217;m wasting my time. I&#8217;m not married!&#8221; <hr></blockquote><p>Based on this quote, it sounds as if you did "rewrite the truth" in order for you to find peace of mind. Not that I'm berating you for it...we all do it to some extent.<p>Affairs are full of common rationalizations:

• I&#8217;m Just Fighting Fire With Fire
  This is the false assumption that promise-breaking, lying and deceit are justified if they are routinely engaged in by those with whom you are dealing.
• It Doesn&#8217;t Hurt Anyone
  Used to excuse misconduct, this rationalization falsely holds that one can violate ethical principles so long as there is no clear and immediate harm to others. It treats ethical obligations simply as factors to be considered in decision making, rather than as ground rules.
• Everyone&#8217;s Doing It
  This is a false, "safety in numbers" rationale fed by the tendency to uncritically treat cultural, organizational or occupational behaviors as if they were ethical norms, just because they are norms.

<p>Please don't let yourself be blindsided by common rationalizations...just because everyone seems to be doing it [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Moreover, if you are sincerely interested in thinking more expansively, the following may be of value to you http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/MED/MED-5steps.htm:<p>Questionable conduct can be avoided by relying on three &#8220;ethics guides&#8221;:<p>GOLDEN RULE &#8212; Are you treating others as you would want to be treated?<p>PUBLICITY &#8212; Would you be comfortable if your reasoning and decision were to be publicized? How would feel about seeing it on the front page of tomorrow&#8217;s papers?<p>KID-ON-YOUR-SHOULDER &#8212; Would you be comfortable if your children were observing you? Are you practicing what you preach? <p>Peace to you on your self-journey of discovery, ~Marie<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: ohmy_marie ]</p>

Marie,
Let me first say that you're quoting me is really freaking me out. LEt's see if I can explain why.<p>I sit here and write and it seems to me that only the 2-3 people that respond are reading it. Then out of the blue you're like "remember when you said..."<p>Kind of like me and MM's wife.<p>As a kid I was ignored a lot. So I did more and more outrageous things just to see if anybody was paying attention. Then when sombody would finally have a reaction i'd be totally shocked. (Are you sensing a pattern in my life [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Ok, so back to the subject at hand.<p>If you read what I write, you should know that over and over I have said here "there is no question that I am conflicted."<p>Here's the skinny. I am no longer pursuing married men. Not that I ever had to chase them. This is the only one that I have been involved with since I was like 20 or so. Anyway, I get the global implications of my actions with MM and his family. If you will recall from that statement, I was having a lot of trouble making it personal. I still am.<p>So I get that it's a bad karma move to deal with this man. And will, therefore, not deal with him or anybody else that is married. It's just that when it comes to personalizing it. I haven't quite made that connection. <p>So don't worry, i'm not cruising bars looking for wedding rings. I'm not back sliding. I'm just still trying to understand a lot of things as it relates to my personal situation.<p>Why are you so invested in my progess anyway? Does that sound *****y? It's not meant to. Just wondering.

zorweb,<p>You said,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I came to believe several months ago that the WS and OP both come to a point at which they do not care about anyone else, religious beliefs, family, marriage vows, etc.
All they care about is their own 'happiness'. Many BS's here have expressed that. Yet I
have never heard any WS or OP (except maybe Scarlett) say that out loud.<hr></blockquote><p>My H did say that, out loud, after he left but before D-Day. He said that he did not like to hurt people, but that he had gone into "don't care" mode. <p>Unfortunately, three years later he still seems to be there.

<strong>
I don't know what to say to you. As I was single person who was childless when my A began my expereince was VERY different.
I never lied, sneaked or pretended to ANYBODY about our relationship. <p>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Are you certain? What about to yourself? Can you not see that you deceived yourself?</strong><p>Marie,
think about it this way...I stumbeled across MB a few months ago. I read an interesting thread and posted a comment. There were people who said "hey, what are you doing here...go away." And there are those who were more welcoming. Cautious, but welcoming.<p>So some times goes by, I get more involved. I'm learning, i'm growing and i'm generally having a good time.<p>I notice that there are some people who are hurt by some off handed remarks that I make and so a pull back. But I stay.<p>In time, i'm invested. I'm showing up here on a regualr basis. I'm interested in peoples lives.<p>A year from now someone says to me, "hey you're not married. You should not be on MB. It's mean and hurtful for you to be here. People are trying to heal. No fair. you've made hurtful comments, you've been careless. And there were BS's who would have come here, had you not been here. Look at the mess you've made."<p>So on looking back at my MB experience I can honestly say, there have been good days and bad days here. I have learned a lot. And also got my feelings hurt at times. And when i'm done here, i'll be done.<p>My affair was exactly the same way. Maybe my mere presence here keeps some BS from posting here. Maybe i'm wreckless and careless here. Maybe I should leave thses good people alone and let them focus on saving their marriages and not answering the questions of some curious xOW.<p>I did my best to be a good little MB poster. Not rude to others, etc. But that's all I can do is my best.<p>So when I look back at this experience here, and someday I will, I'll probably see it all different ways. <p>Certainy my time here is selfish. Certainly people posting to me may have better spent their time posting to those with real problems. <p>Do you get what i'm saying? Then I was just trying to learn, to figure out the whole relationship thing. Just like now. Just like always.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>...So I did more and more outrageous things just to see if anybody was paying attention...
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Oh yes Katie, just to let you know, we are all paying attention to you my dear, even if we don't post to you much...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>...I have said I am conflicted...Anyway, I get the global implications of my actions with MM and his family. If you will recall from that statement, I was having a lot of trouble making it personal. I still am.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well maybe when you get a revelation of marriage and stop seeing it as women losing our identity simply because we change our last names. Our sense of self is not in our surnames...<p>Maybe you will no longer have trouble making it personal when you begin to see some value in marriage, or maybe even become a wife yourself. Or, heaven forbid, if your son should ever marry and his wife has an affair and cheats on him, like what Estes' son is going through. Maybe then you can feel some of the pain infidelity causes for others in a more personal way? <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>Why are you so invested in my progess anyway? Does that sound *****y? It's not meant to. Just wondering.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Because Katie, this is marriage builders and someone who cannot see the painful chain reaction of infidelity tends to stand out in the MB crowd.<p>What goes around comes around and perhaps in your case, it hasn't come around full swing for you to clearly get a view of the big picture yet.

Katie, I am not trying to offend you, so if I have, I apologize in advance, it's just that I have lived on this earth 20 years down the road of life since the time I got myself involved with a MM.<p>I have seen first hand the lifelong consequences of my selfish attitude toward sleeping with a married man when I was single, independent, not in love with anyone, seeing other guys, and embracing that whole mindset of "nothing to hide because it's not MY fault MM had a troubled marriage, it was their problem before I ever came along," etc... <p>Maybe you are not feeling any consequences for your ways of thinking now, but you will. In time. Hopefully by then you will have found inner peace instead of inner conflict.<p>No one is going to change your philosophy overnight and I'm not trying to do that, just trying to get you to open up your thinking, is all. It's what you keep claiming that you want from posting here. Well, if that is true, then you can't be defensive and allow yourself to get offended.<p>If you are as teachable as you claim to be, then you will not allow yourself to be offended by anyone, especially someone like me who has sort of walked in your shoes.<p>NO, you didn't get pregnant by a MM, but you are still raising a son alone. If that doesn't scare you into accountability for your attitudes and behavior, then it should! & the sooner the better!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>Reading here I often wonder "at what point do you cut your losses." There are those for whom happiness is not everything. In the question of "would you rather be right or happy" I see people here who (it seems) would MUCH rather be right.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Katie, I am one of those long distance runner in plan A. I want to be happy no mistake about it but I want her happiness to be together in this family. I could cut my losses right now but I know I could find my happiness, my delay is her happiness. My love for her is beyond my own happiness nor my ego of who is right. On top of the chances of A ending in happy M or R for her is lessen by Om is 2 x Dv & smoker (WW hates it) & two of the EN (domestic & financial) will not be met by him. I might snap one day and never look back. My love for her is as deep as on ocean but it is not bottomless. Also I can not take her back once I Dv her, it is an adultry.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> .... Personally, I'm firmly committed to happiness</strong><hr></blockquote>
No offense but that explains why you were an OW.

Scarlett,<p>You may think that you dealt with your affair with MM in an open manner and that you never lied about it to anyone. But there is a form a lying that is done without words…. A lie of actions I suppose. It may even be looked at as a form of theft.. Perhaps emotional theft?<p>When you went into their home, watched videos of his family (his wife and children). When you walked through those rooms you were invading HER life is a most awful way. When his mother, sister and friends knew about your relationship, when mother and sister called you to keep you informed on him. When they told him that he could keep you as long and his wife never found out…. You were participating in a lie. And you took from her more then her husband. You took her privacy from her. You took other people’s respect from her. And you took her extended family from her. Your affair was much more then him having a marriage that had nothing to do with you. You personally invaded HER life in the most awful way.<p>Still remember, very vividly, the Halloween of 1995. I always threw a party for my son and his friends before we went trick-or-treating. All of his friends parents came over too. It was really fun. Well, the women were in the kitchen cleaning up. One of the mom’s, Hortencia, had only been in my home (to my knowledge) in a very casual basis. Well, this woman was drying my dishes and putting them away. She knew where my dishes, utensils, towels, spices… you name it… went. Then she went into the living room and started putting things away. There is no way a person could have done what she did and not have spent a lot of time in my home. A my friend Roseanne and I just stood there the entire time with our eyes wide open in shock. This woman had been in my home when I was not there and it must have been quite a bit. You see, while my H was in residency, I drove to our home town once a week to manage our financial and rental property affair. Sometimes I stayed as long as a week. So now I knew that my H was bringing his bimbos into our home. He was even ‘doing’ the mothers of his son’s friends. This was a creepy and horrible invasion of my privacy. Funny ‘cause the last time I heard of Hortencia she was bitter because my H ‘got away’ with his adultery. She was unhappy that the good doctor had ‘played her‘. I am sure she does not see the damage she did, nor how much she hurt me.<p>When you walked openly, hand in hand, with MM there must have been people who saw you who knew both of them. I know that NY/NJ is a very large place. But I used to live there.. It’s amazing how ’small town’ the neighborhoods can be. So those people were hiding things from her too. Any of her family members or ‘friends’ who knew of your affair, or any other of his affairs, was helping to basically stab her in the back…. Or maybe we can say steal from her. His wife has to deal, on a daily basis, with the fact that many of the people around her do not care for her. Her husband does not, her mother/sister-in-law do not, many of her ‘friends’ do not.<p>You seem to be hiding, with some pride, behind that fact that you never outwardly lied verbally to anyone. But you were perpetrating a most horrible lie (and theft) on his wife and children. Even her home was not safe.<p>Do you know what this reminds me of? I had a friend years ago, well she was actually a friend of my first husband… she was his main drug supplier. And she was very much ‘over the top’. She was about 20, an alcoholic and addicted to all sorts of drugs. There was a game she used to love to play. She would go into people’s homes and steal something…. Not anything necessarily worth a lot, but something obvious. And it was even more fun if it was the home of some MM she was ‘involved’ with (I’ll be polite here). She got great satisfaction from the fact that she could steal things right from under people’s noses. And it was even more fun if she could invade a woman’s home, scr***w her husband, and then steal say an very nice bottle of the wife’s purfume, or her favorite trinket. [Please don’t think that I am accusing you of stealing anything tangible… I have no idea on that.] But you did directly steal at least non-tangible things from her.<p>Did MM every buy you a gift or spend money on you for dates, trips, whatever? Well if you accepted one penny from him you were participating in stealing money from her too.<p>So you see, your idea that you conducted yourself straight forward and honorably just does not hold water. You personally were still violating her . <p>Please understand that I am not attacking you. I am hoping to get you to start see what happened to her, and your part in it on a more personal level. It is my belief that you cannot totally heal and learn from the affair until you can do this. I think that is a large part of the reason you are here.

I just scanned the tailend of the posts here out of curiosity and I admit your note to me touched my heart about your relationship with an alcoholic... but I too, being in a love relationship with an alcoholic, though a married one... to me... know the pain of the confused soul who battles alcoholism. I am in alanon for that and praying for serenity.. you may want to visit a meeting or two even if you are not in a relationship with an alcoholic right now.. you might have a tendancy to be.<p>I believe that statement redhat quoted about KS being firmly committed to happiness is bittersweet... wouldn't we all love to live blissful joyous, happy lives, with no trouble and especially no torment.. like AFFAIRS Are. If you are firmly committed to happiness think about the happiness of others in the world... not just you- and FIRST, DO NO HARM- do not harm others whether you know them or not by what you do.<p>I recently engaged in some of the meanest things I have done in years... confronting my in-laws... over their contribution to where my H is today... NOW I KNOW it is not their fault... but I think I need a 4th step on my FIL> I am very angry at this man who has been married 4X, offers his son NO ADVICE... except SEEK PEACE and HAPPINESS... and I hope you end up HAPPY... WHAT ABOUT MORAL BEHAVIOR? I firmly believe in GOd,, and christianity and that christian behavior begets more kindness and good in your lives.. <p>We all make mistakes... and I think you realize you did too. I hope you can heal by sharing in this forum. If you are not a church memeber I suggest you visit a church... or develop some spiritual study... it will bring you such peace.<p>I know I am no saint and no one to preach... in fact my FIL says I am craZy and don't deserve to raise my own children... all this coming from an adulterous man who used to traffic cocaine, and makes his living defending drug dealers... the morally corrupt do suffer... in this life and beyond.<p>I am sorry for my anger seeping through at my FIL... but his firm committment to happiness and not a family lifestyle... has resulted in more unhappiness than this man can fathom or imagine... and it is not just tormenting me.. but my children, his child, his son... and possibly my grandchildren... Adultery transcends through generations, and harms the backbone of society- the family.<p>HUGS AND BLESSINGS TO YOU- HONEY

This is the thing for me. In my heart I still feel like maybe it was no big deal to them. Maybe they really didn't know. When i'm thinking about it I often think if it effected them, as opposed to "since" it effected them. I have never seen proof that anybody cares what happened between he and I. To a certain respect is doesn't seem real. Kind of like if a tree falls and nobody hears it... I wonder ALL of the time if this affair had any effect.<p>THis above was from your quote KS, I would like to add. that they know whether they really know why or not.. THE MM CHANGED because of his feelings for you.. he stopped caring, trying, being, and seeing the truth of the possibilities in his marriage.. and you helped.. YES< TRUE, if it was not you.. it may of been another WOMAN.. he wanted an affair.. he was an unfaithful man... My own dad has sd this about my H, if not the OW, then it would of been another OW... he is the problem not the woman.. BUT she helped him hurt me... and I know she doesn't want to take responsbility or even care what she has done to me... just believe OH that L. what a BIT++ Well, little does she know what I have done for this man... and with an alcoholic... you often have to LET GO, and LET THEM FALL.. so they will grow up, face consequences and be an adult... this is what I did... I also learned to live with the drinking, since I loved him so much.. I would not pick fights.. or let him... basically I would not talk to him while drinking... even though many of those type conversations could be jovial and fun.. I backed off... I retreated to our room, he sat at the computer and downed beer after beer.. I would not have sex if he was drunk.. he was drunk everynight... that made it a little hard.. we had a business together.. and on days wehn he acted like imbecile or child... I would refuse to work business with him, and go do my other side business of my own.. (HE CLAIMS THIS was financial abuse and I was making him be nice to me... and controlling him financially.. - I was the one who brought in the customers in our business and I basically made it happen.. and when he would not do his part or treat me acceptably I exited the situation.. he now claims I threw temper fits to him... to make him treat me nice...)<p>It gets very complex when dealing with an addict.. unfortunately they will often turn elsewhere to other friends, family members who will be there for them.. while the W practices tough love.. this is what has happened to me.. My tough love.. made him feel unloved... I just wanted him to grow up... and stop being his mom.. I love him.. but now I am almost to the point of saying I just imagine him to be a man... (THINK I NEED a meeting- alanon- help!)-<p>Alcoholism, drug addiction, etc , sex addiction- I am finding my H has a touch of this.. turning to other women when I push him out.. he has to have a woman to be OK...?? ??<p>Anyway.. it is hard... and they turn to others who will accept what they do... they drive you crzy, the one who loved them the most.. they blame you and turn everything around on you to make it your fault...<p>I think I have gotten a bit off track and onto the alcoholic behavior... but it feels good to write it and see it... I have to go and get my boys ready to go so I can go to work...<p>BUt, just remember, HE must of been pretty confused --- to be a MM involved with an OW in the first place... I could never be the OW... and I have even had attractions to MM... and would like to enjoy some friendships at work with MM.. but have found often they come onto me.. and I always SAY I Am married, and so are you... hopefully I do not have to spell it out that clearly... but my actions and words would never allow anything to go forward while I am married or anyone else is... I just have a respect for the sanctity of marriage. I also would have a hard time respecting a man who would engage in this type of activity... I/E- My h?<p>THus, I know, sad but true... I want to blame OW for flaunting herself in his face... <p>BUt I know he is the ultimate one who betrayed me, she just helped, and I can't help but be sickened by her.. she has no children and could nver imagine what she is doing to our family.. or has done... the MM lies, cheats, etc.. and of course makes up justifications, and blames everyone but self for his actions.<p>I have to go, but just my thoughts... good day and GOd bless.<p>HONEY

RE Honey's remark.... THE MM CHANGED because of his feelings for you.. he stopped caring, trying, being, and seeing the truth of the possibilities in his marriage.. and you helped.. <p>
Actually, since the MM was involved with you (Scarlett) and probably other women at the time of his engagement and at the time he married his wife... he never really did care for his wife. No matter what she has done over the years, she started out in a marriage that was failed from before it started.

Honey,<p>RE: he now claims I threw temper fits to him... to make him treat me nice...<p>Please do not buy into this type of garbage. You set limits and he hated them. You needed to set those limits. They may have driven him out the door but not because you were terrible. It is because it is making him be responsible and he hates it. But this is exactly what will make him get better, if anything ever will.<p>Good for you.

Guess I'm gonna jump in here...<p>Katie, I guess the only way to really feel the pain of the W is to someday be one. Is it possible to put yourself in her position? I mean, REALLY, like in a medatative trance or something? I used to do this with my kids when they were small...when they were cruel to another person,to feel the other persons pain.<p>Ya know, I grew up seeing infidelity all around me...I was M at 18 and I was raised on the premise that "all men are alike". Over the course of the next few years, I came to beleive that all men WERE alike, except my H. Infidelity was just NOT in him...well, HELLO, 27 years later,here it is!!
I am having some trouble, much like zorweb, with the concept of how could he Love me and do this? Seeeking happiness? BUt he says he was unhappy with the OW...Seeking Love? BUt he says he always knew he didn't love her. It seems so unreal to me that a man like my H, with principles and honor could behave in such a manner for basically, NOTHING!!!! If he could say he THOUGHT he loved her and it was false or just "in love", well ,that I could understand. BUt he says NO, it was just not to get caught...Where the hell is the honor in that??? <p>Frankly, the A took away my entire concept of what my life was and is...no money was spent on her, just time, Time stolen from me and the kids.Time that would CERTAINLY have been better spent comtemplating HIS part in the place our M had gotten,insteasd of using her to blame me. `I didn't know about the A until a week before it was over. BUT, and please understand this, the MAJOR damage was done BEFORE I "knew".

(This is gonna be long)
I have to say first that I am 100% NOT offended. and I want to tell you guys that you are awesome teachers. Ok, some of you get on my nerves (I won't name names) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] but you're amaxing teachers.<p>Maybe you'll believe this and maybe you won't but you've given me information that I never had. Maybe I should have known, but you have shown me things in a way that I never would have thought. And that is a gift. A tremendous blessing!<p>I have spent the last 11 days with my aunt. She is an amazing woman. She and I are kindred spirits. I have 5 aunts, and this one was the ultimate party girl. Single mother of 2, lots of boyfriends, etc. About 12 years ago she decided that she wanted to have a different kind of life. She settled down and got married. It was NOT easy for her. What a gigantic changed in lifestyle. <p>She moved out of town away from the life that she had known and she made an entirely new life for herself. She really shut her self off from the family and focused on her marriage.<p>Recently, this man died as a result of terrorist attacks. I am geographically the closest relative so I was tapped to go and stay with her.<p>We spent the next 2 weeks holed up in the house, dodging the press and making final arrangements. <p>After 11 years of basically no contact with her, suddenly I got a view of her life as a married person. we spent hours just sitting and talking about all kinds of things. Marriage, life, family, etc. We really sort of cacooned (sp?) and made the best of a difficult situation.<p>I made certain assumptions about what her life was life. Some of them were accurate and some were false. It was the first time that I even got a glimpse of why anybody would want to marry.<p>My (now widowed) aunt came and spent the holiday with me. We talked for hours like usual. She met my boyfriend. And gave me lots of motherly advice. I'm not used to getting motherly advice so that took some getting used to, but there was one thing that she said that gave me pause. She said "the family is the husband and the wife. It's not the mother and the children, the father and the children, it's the husband and the wife. So without that basic husband-wife structure, you have no family."<p>Heretofore it was my assumption that family was mother and child. Dad was a nice extra, but really not necessary. I have looked for men based on criteria like #1-what can he do for me, #2-what's in this for me and #3-what are his genetics like because I really dont' want ugly or unhealthy children. Wrong or right that's the way I saw it. It's kind of mind blowing to begin to think of men/husbands/fathers in a different way.<p>The other thing that has struck me deeply lately was when Zorweb (I think it was her) was talking about the house. And violating the house.<p>My apartment is sacred to me. If I feel like someone will mess up the vibe of my house they don't even get past the doorman. It's a HUGE deal for me to have new people in my house. It's a giant sign of trust.<p>Growing up my house was never a safe place, so I make it my business to keep it safe now. I cannot begin to imagine having someone violate my home. So when I read how my being in W's home was a violation, I got that in a deep deep way. And that was sort of the first peek into understanding what it is that happened to her in all of this.<p>========
I could sit here and write all day, but I have lots of work to do.<p>More later
KS

I was looking for something else when I noticed this.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>NO, you didn't get pregnant by a MM, but you are still raising a son alone. If that doesn't scare you into accountability for your attitudes and behavior, then it should! & the sooner the better!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Btdt,
I can only guess that single parenthood was a big shock for you. And maybe that's the reason that you bring it up nearly every time you post to me. To be honest, being a single parent is not such a big deal to me. That is BY FAR the least of my worries.<p>I was 27, had a successful career and ready for a child. I didn't plan him, but was thrilled when I discovered that he would be arriving.<p>To let you know where I head was at, I actually thought it was perfect that I was pregnant. That way I could have the baby that I wanted without the bother of a realationship (which I didn't want).<p>I live 300 miles from my nearest relative, so I mobilized my "village" of friends to create a safe and loving environment for my child to be raised in. Complete with adult, appropriate male role models.<p>And what's more, because I was single and the first among my friends to have a baby, everyone went (and still goes) above and beyond the call.