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I'm having the hardest time accepting that my H has truly given up and chosen OW over me and our family. He's currently living in our home (which is up for sale). I'm to move to an apartment February 2. We made it through Christmas, although it was tough. I still love him in spite of all that's happened over the last 10 months. Is he still in the fog or is this truly the end? We see a lawyer on 1/3/02. My H told me last weekend that we should just do it quickly, so that I can move on emotionally and him too. Then he proceeded to tell me that very often, people remarry their X's. He said he truly wants to become my friend again, and that what might happen, is that he'll decide he wants me back, by then it will be too late. Why does he say this stuff? I need help here, guys. I can't talk him out of the D at this point. Do I just need to accept at this point and begin to move on?<p>MOM [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

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OMG! MoM, my H said the exact same thing. That his family has a history of re-marrying their ex's and we may follow suit. He also said that it may very well happen that by the time he wants me back, I would have moved on.<p>Our H's have the same script.<p>MoM, I think the reason it's so hard for you right now is you're still in transition state, you're not truly separated yet H is trying to act as though he is. You can't distance yourself from any of it, because it's right there all the time with you two living together.<p>This must be so hard on you. I'm really sorry for the stress you must be coping with.<p>Know that I'm thinking of you and saying prayers for your situation. You never know what can happen, MoM. Maybe God has you two still living together for a reason. <p>Love,
Jo

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Thanks Jo. I knew you'd answer, as you've been right where I am now. It just hurts so much to see him there, knowing he's stopping by OW's place every morning before work. He's never been the way he is with her; with me. We have 37 more days together; I don't expect any miracles to happen as most of the time he treats me as if I'm an annoyance. Part of me looks forward to moving out; but most of me is dreading it. Got to go home now.<p>Thanks again, Jo. You're amazing!<p>MOM

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Hi MOM. I wish I had the answers for you. I'm certainly no expert here. I know the past 10 mos. must have been incredibly hard for you. You do need to move on for yourself. At this point I think you need to put yourself first. Your H saying things like lots of people get remarried seems to be a way for him to think that you will always be there with open arms should he decide to recommit to your M that's just my opinion. Have you considered plan B? I know it's easy for me to say that you will be okay. Time heals. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Hugs and prayers
cybil

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MoM,<p>As long as you are in the same house with your H it will be very hard for you to move get a grip on what is happening to your marriage. Your current setup is very unfair to you. Why are you moving from your home instead of your H? This may not be a good move.<p>As for he remarry thing.. It’ s just a smoke screen. He’s still in a fog and afraid to commit to one thing or the other. So it’s a way to keep you on a string. Do not hold on to such nonsense. While there is a possibility of remarriage, it is remote.<p>RE: I can't talk him out of the D at this point. Do I just need to accept at this point and begin to move on?<p>Who is paying for the divorce? Making the lawyer appointments? Etc? If you do not want the divorce you should not do anything out of the ordinary to facilitate it. As for seeing a lawyer on 1/3/02. It is a joint appointment? Ah, this is not how divorce is usually done. Is this an attorney that you have both known for a long time? You need an attorney who will look out for your own interests. Even if once attorney is used to draw up the papers, please get an independent attorney to look the papers over for you own good. If he wants a divorce there is no reason that you have to make it easy for him. Let him see an attorney, draw up a settlement agreement, take it to your attorney for review. Though your H may want the divorce, it sounds to me like you need some time to process this. So do not let him rush you.

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MOM,<p>My heart goes out to you as you are about to make some very important and painful decisions. If only we could get inside someone else's head and know their true motivations.<p>If your H has decided to procede with the D, do you really have a choice in that or is it legally out of your hands? Yes, people do get remarried, so there is always hope. It is never too late. Since you still have many doubts, I surely would not make this quick or easy. You said you were seeing the lawyer together? Do you have your own lawyer? Using the same lawyer usually means that the divorce action is acceptable to both spouses and that the laywer has the green light to finish up as soon as possible. You need someone to protect you.<p>I still see your H trying to tell you what to think, though, to manipulate you. He tells you it is good to get the divorce quickly so that YOU can move on emotionally, that he MIGHT want you back (This is sooo hurtful!), that he wants to be your FRIEND. This is all fog, for sure. H is looking at things totally on his terms. He is still rationalizing. It seems very condescending to me. You fit into the plans however he sees fit.<p>MOM, this is your life. Search your heart and decide what it is that YOU want. Do you want to take this slowly? Do you want to give your H more time to figure things out? Or are you convinced that he truly no longer wants his M? I wish someone could make a wise decision for you, but only you can do that.<p>My idea is that if you have the slightest doubt, take it really slowly and don't give up. Don't make it easy for H to break up your family. <p>Hugs to you,
Estes

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MOM,<p>Don't fall for the "let's get this done quickly so you can move on" line. This strategy is for him, no you. He wants to move quickly so he can sidestep as much guilt and reality as possible. If this isn't what you want, don't help him. Do it at your own pace. My W tried for 6 months to get me to sit down with her and go over the specifics. She also wanted to use one lawyer. I refused and she finally filed on 11/4. Guess what? She hasn't said a word about it since. I finally had to respond to the paperwork so I did.
I contested her grounds and I also counterfiled on the grounds of adultery and mental cruelty. Why did I do this? First, to get the truth (she's never admitted anything). Secondly, to buy myself some time for reality to rear it's ugly head.<p>This isn't what I want, so if my W really wants this it will be on my terms. If she's willing to admit what she's doing, she'll have the freedom she desires. But, admitting anything is something she's trying desperately to avoid.<p>Also, two other points:

1. Do not leave! He wants out, he should leave.<p>2. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, use one lawyer. IMHO, it's unethical for one lawyer to handle both sides of a D. It's a conflict of interest. Have your own lawyer, working for you and looking out for you. Also, cancel the joint appointment. Make him do the dirty work himself. <p>I'm all for amicable divorces if both parties want it and an A is not an issue. However, under the circumstances there is no reason it has to be amicable. There will come a time when it can be, it doesn't have to be now. Divorce shouldn't be easy. It should be the hardest thing you have to do, that's how you know if it's the right thing to do.<p>sad dad

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MoM,<p>I agree with everyone on this, don't help your H facilitate this D if you don't want it .... MAKE HIM EARN THE DIVORCE<p>Make him do all the work, he wants it, it's his deal.<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

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EXACTLY what I have been saying for weeks...(months?). If he wants the divorce, let HIM go get it. Do not do the work for him, especially if you have any doubts or reservations whatsoever. <p>Just because you agree with the terms of the divorce and work for attorneys, it is still no reason to handle all of the dirty work for him!<p>Please listen to what these people are telling you.

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I agree with what everyone else has posted. Don't rush this. A divorce that one person doesn't want should not be rushed.<p>What is the hurry? Even if you are divorced, don't you think you will still be going through lots of strong emotions. Too bad if he wants it over so that he can get on with his life...take it slow and get your own lawyer.<p>Take Care...this is tough and you will need to be strong!!

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MOM,<p>Ditto to everything above; I can't say anymore than what's been said about letting your H do all of the work to get out of the marriage. But also remember to protect yourself and your joint assets. If your H is serious, there might be a time when you're up against the wall. You might want to prepare yourself for this, just as a matter of precaution.<p>Question: Would you want to marry your H again, if he divorced you for another woman?<p>I know how I'd answer this question, but I'm interested in how you feel about it, as well as others.<p>belld

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by belldandy:
<strong>Question: Would you want to marry your H again, if he divorced you for another woman?<p>I know how I'd answer this question, but I'm interested in how you feel about it, as well as others.<p>belld</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
The only way I would even consider marrying my XH again would be he'd have to do the following:<p>
  • Became a devout Christian
  • Ended all contact with OW (no exceptions)
  • Lived on his own for 6 mos and we date
  • Agreed to a life time of counseling, both IC and MC
<p>How's that for starters, Bell?<p>Jo

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I'm glad I picked this thread to read, right now, funny how the Lord leads us to things, isn't it?<p>MoM,<p>I was feeling very much the same as you, even considered calling a lawyer today to just get it over with, as I was feeling like I can't handle this why am I being such a baby, he doesn't want to be with me so why am I hanging on so hard.<p>Then I read this thread, I put 20 years into this marriage and it is going to take a while to dissolve it and I don't want it dissolved.<p>So MoM I agree with above advice and take it to heart for myself. I don't want to be his friend I am his wife!!!<p>Thanks for the thread it strengthed me!!!<p>Dawn

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So the question was raised before about can a marriage be restored if only 1 person wants it? No. Then the flip side is, can a D be done easily if only 1 wants it? No. <p>Hm..... ok with those odds....let's see.... I vote for being neutral. Don't say you will fight it just don't say anything. He wants the D, let him go get it. I know when I did that, it threw him for a loop. You know when we can unsettle those in the fog they tend to lose their footing and waffle a bit. Keep him guessing. Don't let him know how you feel unless you see him coming around. Be careful sometimes fogese school teaches them to be nice to the BS just to find out what the BS is up to and then wham.... usually the OW starts to put pressure and we are the bad guys again.<p>Just give him the look and listen. Don't give your position away. They will think of you more that way. Trying hard to figure you out. Don't you want that?<p>L.

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I agree with what others have said. First, why are you moving out? Usually it would be him. Second, don't use a common lawyer. Where I am I don't think you can even do that. Also, let him do it if he wants a divorce. Make him do the work.<p>Like you've been told, it would be very hard to come to grips with your marriage ending while you are still in the same house. My wife stayed here for 5 months after saying it was over, and I know that I didn't start the process of accepting and moving on until she moved out and I could establish my own life and just be without her.<p>Having said that, you don't have to give up. But if you end up being apart, time will then help you move forward in whatever way you do.

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I would like to thank you ALL so very much for all of your heartfelt responses. I will try to answer all the questions/comments here.<p>1. We are selling our home because the mortgage payment is VERY high; neither of us can afford the house without the other's income (even with child support, while he was gone before, I went further and further into the hole on my own).<p>2. We have huge credit card debt (both of us); selling the house will allow us to pay off all credit card debt; thereby giving us both more to live on (and him more able to live close by so that he can be an active participant in our children's lives, which I want). <p>3. WE ARE BROKE. We both agreed that getting our own attorneys and fighting over things (we have NO assets, we agree on the child support, custody, etc.) would only cause us to spend the profits from the sale of our home to be used up for attorneys' fees, and we don't want to go into our separate lives broke. If we use one attorney and agree on things, we are saving much money that can later be spent on our children (we have one graduating in 2002, going on to technical school).<p>4. The attorney; the attorney is my attorney (I worked for him for 5 years), and he is doing all of the work pro bono, meaning all we have to pay for is the filing fees. He will, of course, tell my H that he has every right to have another attorney review all papers, to make sure he's not getting screwed.<p>5. I do still want my M, but arguing and getting angry with my H has only pushed him further into OW's arms. For the last few weeks, I've managed a really good Plan A. It's helped ME tremendously, although I think my H is currently too in love with OW (so he thinks) to even notice. <p>6. I have spoken privately with my attorney and have asked him to send all papers to me first for review. He is aware that I plan to stall on this as long as possible. I will move out on February 2 and the attorney will have the papers delivered to my new apartment. The reason the kids and I are moving first is because where we live, there are only 2 apartment complexes with 3-bedroom apartments. They don't come open very often, so when one came open for February, it was important for me to take it. We are praying that the house will sell in January, so that my H will only be in the house one month more. He's already been approved for his own 1-bedroom apartment, and they come open more often, so we are not worrying about whether there will be a place for him or not.<p>I believe all of you that it should be harder for my H, but in making it harder for my H, my children and I will end up suffering more (the costs, etc.). I don't wish to put them through anymore.<p>I am trying daily to put my focus, faith and trust in God. God can and wants to restore my M. God has allowed me to make it this far. He's shutting my mouth when I shouldn't use it. I give him all the praise for that. I am asking for God to guide me each and every day. I know that for now, God wants me to focus on my walk with him. He's got big changes to make in me. Then, if he sees fit (and I pray daily for this as well), he can turn my H's heart back to me and his family. I've stopped trying to do that, as everything I've done to this point has only pushed him further away.<p>I am greatful for all of you and your support. I've fought for 10 months now, to no avail.<p>In answer to belldandy's question would I want to remarry a man that left me for another woman? I'll give Resilient's answers here:
Only if:<p>He Became a devout Christian
He Ended all contact with OW (no exceptions)
He Lived on his own for 6 mos and we date
He Agreed to counseling, both IC and MC<p>I have faith that if God wants that for me (and I know God HATES divorce), that it will all be given to me when God's got ME where he wants me to be.<p>I thank you all again. I agree with those who have said that it will take us being apart for me to start to heal. It will take us being apart also for my H to realize what the consequences of all of this are.<p>PEACE,<p>MOM<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Myownme ]<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Myownme ]<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Myownme ]</p>

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Mom,<p>Like you I wonder when I will really accept that my M is over. I guess for me it will be when STBX marries the OW. <p>I filed for D when he packed our house in Singaporeup & had it shipped back to the states after I already left for homeleave in the states & he went to live with OW. This was after fencing sitting for 2 yrs, even going so far as moving to Singapore for the job he always wanted & to try to work things out. My STBX can do anything he puts his mind to & if he ever tried to break from the OW, is was till the 1st time she called & cried how much she loved him. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Even though I filed in June we haven't gotten very far in D process. I stall, he does nothing to push me along, why I don't know.<p>But I guess for me it will finally be over when he marries her.<p>Like you & Jo, if for some reason, which I don't think will ever happen, he wanted to come back, he have to do all the things you listed & maybe more.<p>I hope you and your children find peace & joy<p>I haven't fought STBX on all the things I should because of the boys. It is hard sometimes to balance your needs against the needs of your children. <p>Good Luck

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Hi MoM,<p>Altho you may already know the five steps of grieving, I thought I'd post them here again:
  • Denial
  • Anger
  • Bargaining
  • Depression
  • Acceptance
<p>You will continue to cycle thru these MoM, until eventually you'll be at peace with acceptance.<p>And personally I believe that the longer you are/have been married, the longer it may take you ... hence several cycles.<p>You are in my thoughts, MoM. I wish I could do more to help.<p>Love,
Jo

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MoM,
I understand now why you are taking the path that you are. Your reasoning makes sense, sadly. I think we resist acceptance because we finally have to admit to ourselves that it is really over.
<p>Jo,
Can you talk more about the "several cycles" you mentioned? Do you mean people back up and repeat some of the stages? Can a person actually DO anything to hasten the acceptance stage. (My son seems to be solidly into the depression stage.)
Did you chose to go about your life the best you could, then one day realize that you were not agonizing about things anymore? Or were you a little better each day? Or was it a roller coaster?<p>Wishing everyone better times,
Estes

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
<strong>Jo,
Can you talk more about the "several cycles" you mentioned? Do you mean people back up and repeat some of the stages? Can a person actually DO anything to hasten the acceptance stage. (My son seems to be solidly into the depression stage.)
Did you chose to go about your life the best you could, then one day realize that you were not agonizing about things anymore? Or were you a little better each day? Or was it a roller coaster?<p>Wishing everyone better times,
Estes</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi Estes ....<p>I can only speak for myself as far as what stages I cycle thru (still cycling BTW) but I always re-start at Anger and seem to hang there for a long time, then bargaining and then hang in depression long as well, and then FINALLY get to acceptance (relief).<p>Most times the cycle starts because of a "trigger", you know, like I hear from or about my H or I see, smell or taste something that reminds me of H or the A. <p>I have learned the reason I languish in the anger and depression stages are I have never learned how to express anger in a healthy way, I internalize it ... blame myself and self loathe (self esteem issues I guess) so naturally the depression stage is just as intense and long.<p>What I've also learned is after each cycle the next cycle is less severe and shorter in duration. Thank God!<p>To understand what I'm going thru (steps of grieving and why) has helped me tremedously. I so look forward to the acceptance stage, each time the acceptance stage is more freeing and hopeful.<p>Estes, what helped speed up the cycles for me in terms of less severity were anti-deps (Welbutrin).<p>I kicked and screamed about taking anything, but found myself so depressed I had to do something. I thought I could and should get thru it naturally, and thought perhaps the anti-deps might numb me, but they have allowed and enabled me to feel the stages, but not sucuum to the profound hopeless feelings. It's not anywhere as severe as it use to be, but still does hurt.<p>I'm so sorry about your son's depression. I know it feels hopeless to be in that stage. And "yes" what I described to you up above does "feel" like a rollercoaster. <p>Is he on anti-deps, Estes?<p>Jo

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