It has dawned on me that my H refuses to meet my emotional needs out of fear of being p****whipped.<p>My BiL and H's father are and were the easygoing kind of men who deeply love their wives and don't mind showing it. My H says my BiL is p****whipped, and I suspect he feels the same way about his dad, since he's said that his dad gave his mother her way too much.<p>So, help me out here. In your experience (I'm sure y'all know men like my H), will he ever get over this? I'm thinking that he never will. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Just my opinion, but I don't think he will get over it just because you want him to. He has to want to treat others in a respectful manner for himself. Nothing you can do will change him.<p> Just my 2 pennies worth. <p> jd

personally I hate that phraseology, guess I prefer henpecked. Anyways it is not a real fear IMO. One can be henpecked, but that is just another lable for marriage to a female controller. It is not something one is "afraid" of, it just either is or is not, and consequences flow from there. Re your H, selfishness is just selfishness no matter how you label it. If he does not want to meet your EN he just does not want to be married to you, or is dysfunctional (sociopath) and just uses this crap to intimidate you. Don't buy it, in fact ignore it, is his personal problem. My advice is always the same, don't get sucked into this co-dependenct malarkey. He is a big boy, and responsible for himself. You do your plan a, followed by plan b, followed by plan d, or reisgn yourself to a lousy marriage, one that works great for him at your expense. His first step probably needs to be IC, if he really believes this macho baloney.

Hi Lady Clueless,<p>You know, you just might be right. How does your husband feel about son-in-laws that behave like he does? Is that what he wants for his daughter, to have her husband be a stubborn old coot, too proud to love his wife?<p>Maybe that would help? I know that my husbands family does not want us together, so they constantly chide him about being "whipped". That seems so childish, doesn't it?<p>How was Christmas for you? Christmas was lonely for me, I always miss being around my family and grandkids on Christmas. Being in MN is very lonely for me, but it is getting better - I guess I am getting used to lonely Christmas's? <p>My husband had my wedding rings repaired for me for Christmas. That was good.<p>I only asked for one thing from him - a CD made by a local pianist. He was too lazy to go to the store that he was told carried it. So he bought me 2 other CD's at Wal-mart without vocals. I can't figure out why he wouldn't go to the store that carried the CD that I asked for. He apologized for not getting me the CD that I wanted, saying "I'm sorry, Wal-mart didn't have it." (duh. Wal-mart doesn't carry local artists! sheesh.) <p>He was irritated that our can-opener was on its last leg, so he bought me a can-opener. He is concerned about his weight, so he bought me a bathroom scale. Sheesh. He likes to play chinese checkers, so he bought me chinese checkers. (I don't like games.) He knows I like See's candy (my sister used to send me some every Christmas), and you can only order that by mail where we live - so it calls for some "pre-planning" (can't buy it on Christmas Eve) so he bought me chocolate covered cherries.<p>Okay, he tried. I give him credit for that and for the rings. I asked him if he would like it if I bought him a sewing machine for Christmas, because I like to sew! He is clueless. <p>He loves to sing Karaoke. So, I searched and searched and bought him a professional karaoke system complete with CD's of many of the songs that he likes to sing. He was VERY pleased. I put some effort into making him happy, where my husband, used Christmas as a way to demonstrate his narcisism! Sheesh!<p>I think, Lady Clueless, that your husband remains a "piece of work", but really, I'm not sure that it is your job to change him - but maybe you just have to figure out how to accept it. It would be nice if you could simply tell him how his attitude makes you feel unloved - but that would be toooooo simple. You are one of the most creative women I know, in dealing with the kind of husband that you have. You actually could write a book for women in this predicament! You have so many years of experience! <p>Nice to see you again!

Lady Clueless,<p>I’ll chime in here though I am a woman. What I’ve noticed parallels what jdmac1 has to say.<p>I loath the terms p****whipped and henpecked.<p>Now yes there are controlling wives just as there are controlling husbands. When a woman does this she making her H p****whipped and henpecked. When a guy does it do we have a term for it?… pr..whipped and rooster pecked?<p>There is actually a huge difference between p****whipped and henpecked. P****whipped implies that a man gives his wife everything she wants. Henpecked implies that the woman browbeats her H about everything. Huge difference.<p>When I hear a man use these terms, all I can think of is that it is his frame of mind that is the problem. A man who thinks that loving his wife and meeting her EN’s makes him p****whipped is a selfish man with a weak ego. A man who feels that his wife henpecks him is either passive aggressive (he turns everything she ways into henpecking) or he cannot stand up to his wife in a loving manner. <p>I have an ex-brother-in-law who thinks that just about every woman he meets is controlling. They are not controlling necessarily… is view is that women are controlling. All women are controlling. <p>My ex-H came to say more and more over the years that I was controlling. Yet it was he who was controlling everything. These types of accusations are a way to reflect one’s bad behavior back on their spouse. <p>Your H seems to be a controlling person. He is even going to control how much love you get. And you cannot say anything about it because then it will make him, God Forbid, p****whipped. Don’t you see how he is trying to control you?<p>(By the way, I am not saying that this is a male only trait.)<p>Like in anything else, a person does not change until they see their own folly. It usually takes them hitting rock bottom to do this. I have seen some men soften in their area as they age. But short of that, they do not change easily.<p>It seems that if you stay with your H you will need to change your expectations. You are the one who perceives a problem, not him. My bet is that you are meeting his needs as best you can at this time (?right?). So he might be happy. He has no reason to change, in his eyes.

Lady Clueless <p>"It has dawned on me that my H refuses to meet my emotional needs out of fear of being p****whipped."<p>My first thought was of wondering what the ENs were. Some, like conversation, can be scary for some men so they hide behind labels as pw'd.<p>Other issues I have seen is a man being unwilling to not fit in with 'his crowd'... but generally I have noticed that the larger the group of men, the more stupid and immature they (we) behave.
I refer to this as the 'A**hole factor'.<p>This is also known as 'looking good' but with a misguided priority as to whom to look good for.<p>This reminds me of a man I used to buy firewood from. He and I had an agreement and I discussed this with my wife. However, when I wasn't home, he came to deliver the wood and tried to change the agreement. My wife balked (correctly) and told him to NOT deliver the wood until he spoke with me. He tried to argue but my wife was firm
(and angry inside). He came back and was still angry and started the conversation "Between you and me..." and I immediately cut him off and said "There is no 'between you and me'. There is 'my wife and me' and then there is you."<p>He said "I don't think I like how you are treating me" and I replied with something like "I know I don't like how you treated my wife" and he stormed off.<p>
'Men' like to think that 'men' behave a certain way. It is funny to ask these men if they treat their other men with respect and honor. Most will say yes but they get really uncomfortable when asked the same question about their W or GF.<p>...sorry... I am rambling...

Thanks for all the responses. I've got a lot of thinking to do.<p>TNT! Good to hear from you! I know what you mean about your H giving you what HE wants for Christmas [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . My pet peeve has been my H getting our D to pick up something for Mama. He used to give me money, which was fine, but was just the "easiest" thing for him to do, KWIM? This year, I told D that I do NOT want her buying my gifts from Daddy anymore...that I don't care if it's a pair of nail clippers or a card, I want HIM to actually go out and get my gifts from him. He's always claimed that I don't like what he gets me, but it's not true. It HAS made him angry when he bought me clothes that didn't fit and I had to exchange them, especially when he had bought my clothes off a sale rack (which was fine with me) and could not exchange them for the exact same item because they were sold out. He would never believe that there weren't any more outfits like the one he got me, even though I LIKED what he got me.<p>Creative? Yeah, sometimes, you have to be creative with these guys. I stepped over the line the other day, though, and LB'd a little. We've both been sick, off and on, over the past 6 weeks...alternating the same "bug" back and forth, so needless to say, our sex life hasn't been great during that time (only 2x in the past month) [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] . And of those 2x, when he[/b[ got through, we were both through, if you get my drift. First time, I was disappointed. Second time, I got angry. Anyway, I was in the kitchen afterwards and saw his money clip on the counter. Well, I needed some money (and he doesn't mind my helping myself if I tell him about it). So, as I was getting $20 out of the clip, he walked in and said, "How much you getting?" I told him "$20." He said, "What do you need it for? Get more if you need it." I told him it was for services rendered, and that $20 bucks was enough, as I was a cheap lay and next time, just leave it on the dresser. Ooooh, BADDDDDD GIRL! I know, but at the time, I just plain didn't care, and you know what? I still don't care. I would rather not have any sex than have the wham bam thank you ma'am kind, where I feel as if it doesn't matter that it's [b]ME who's with him.<p> You know, my H can really be a sweetie, if he'd just get over having to be so "macho". I really think he believes his mother led his dad around by the nose and he's afraid that others will see him as being weak or something.<p> Jdmac1, yeah, I do think this is a personality issue, and not one that will change, although I do think I could get him to do those things if I insisted on them, but I don't want to have to insist. That wouldn't meet my needs, either. I guess my greatest emotional need is for him to WANT to meet my needs.<p> SnL and Zorweb, yeah, I hate both those terms, but the ****whipped one is my H's term, not mine. Oh, I could henpeck him into doing things that I need for him to do, but that would only make him resentful and wouldn't make me happy, either. You see, I want him to WANT to do those things...to be HAPPY in meeting my needs.<p> Oh, he's asked me to marry him again, twice. Once when he was drunk, and we got into a fight. The second, on our anniversary this year, when learning that I STILL do not want to celebrate our anniversary anymore, he just said, "Well, will you marry me?" I told him to ask me again under other circumstances, and I'd consider it.<p> I have told him that I always dreamed of a romantic proposal, but never got one. He knows that I consider myself to be a wife without a husband.

My H, although an emotionally selfish man, can be remarkably unselfish. There is NOTHING he wouldn't do for our children or grandchildren. When I was confined to bed during the last 3 months of pregnancy that resulted in the loss of our 2nd stillborn daughter, he took care of me the house, the kids, in addition to working all day...all without complaining. He was wonderful to me, and I told him so, often.<p> It's strange, but those few years of sorrow over our lost daughters and other multiple pregnancy losses, were the best years of our marriage. We were so close, and believe it or not, more passionate with each other than at any other time in our marriage. I guess his knowing that I wanted to have another child with him so much must have filled his lovebank, and I know that his loving care of me filled mine to overflowing.<p>Zorweb, I know very well that my H is controlling. In many ways, he's not as bad as he used to be, because he knows that if I want to do something badly enough, I'll just do it. I've often wondered if that is what LB'd him into screwing around. I know that many times, he used to tell me, "If you'd just do what I TELL you..." My response usually was, "That's the problem: you're TELLING me what to do. I'm not your child; I'm your wife. We can talk about it, but I want you to listen to my opinion instead of ordering me around." Needless to say, he wouldn't listen to what I had to say, so I would just do whatever I thought best, anyway. (Yeah, I know...not POJA, but I never heard of that back then.) Usually, though, H would come around and say that what I'd done was the right thing to do. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Oh, SnL, I know that my H does want to stay married to me, as he does love me (just don't feel that he's IN love with me), we have a long history together, our finances are all tied up, and our kids would never forgive him.<p>And, Zorweb, I may have to go to a Plan B sort of thing, although he's not cheating anymore. I do know that when I walked out on him a couple of years ago and disappeared for a couple of days after catching him up at Cafe Woman's restaurant, our D said that "Daddy was all to pieces." Was that rock bottom? I dunno, but I do think that I didn't let him stay there long enough. I came home too soon, although it did get him to admit to the STD Tramp fling.<p>Vanilla'd, I just want to feel that my H really does love me and is in love with me again, and not just being here out of obligation, habit, etc. Right now, I feel like I'm just "settling" for what's not too much trouble for him to give me.<p>Dang, I feel like I've written a book. Anyway, my H is really not a cruel man, and I do think that he has issues that he needs to deal with. The problem is that he thinks he doesn't have a problem. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I just feel like he's afraid to let his guard down with me so he can emotionally connect with me.<p>Thanks for your help. I've got lots to think about.
LC

Personally, I think these loud protestations about not being 'p****wh*****' are just a juvenile rationalization for doing whatever the hell they want to do.

Diddallas,
Thanks for putting it in a nutshell. My H is always telling me that he can do what he wants to. My response is generally, "Yes, you can. But, just bear in mind that I can do what I want to, as well." He doesn't seem to like that idea too well. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]