I just got off the phone with my spouse.. who does his best to tell me that
1. I have ruined our marriage,
2. driven him away,
3. kept him away from his friends....
4. Isolated him
5. Made him immature
6. Caused him to do bad by not supporting him
7. Ruined his life
8. made him unhappy
9. been violent
10. destroyed his things
11. not been loving enough
12. not cleaned house enough
13. not taken care of myself enough
14. too fat
15. not pretty enough anymore
16. not fun enough anymore
17. drove him away
18. made him not love me anymore
19. drove away the person I loved, etc. etc.<p>He has made me feel sooo low just now... and I was doing so much better... on the pohone... I started begging, telling him I will change, I will try, I will work harder, I will, I promise... just give us a chance, I am asking for 12 counseling sesssions... to evaluate... we have had 2.<p>I am asking for him to end affair and try to work on our marriage.<p>He says AFFAIR has nothing to do with our marriage.<p>He is thinking about having kids with this woman he met at work... she wants a baby really bad... and he is married to me...<p>HELP ME LORD JESUS CHRIST<p>HE is threatening to file for divorce right away now over my major LB on the 24th... he says I ruined his christmas, he cried and cried and cried.<p>He says I am awful, and that --- etc etc. etc.<p>
I am feeling low<p>gathering strength... I dropped off youngest child for night with him and tried to go to an alanon meeting, and I arrived at the end... since I got lost driving... <p>I am feeling surreal - Like I am in a horrible nightmare... and I am dizzy and confused, and do not know how I got here... I feel like my life has been taken from me.<p>He keeps saying the OW wants a baby really bad... what is all of this about.. making sure he stays with her.. this is soo horrible... why can't she let us have our family and try to work things out... she is back in now that I LB'd... <p>My H says she says she is going to take all of her stuff and come and move in with him... now.. he may get a roommate.. that wants to get PG really bad... LORD HELP ME
I am feeling very lost.<p>THANKS HONEY

Honey,<p>You have to step away from his babbling. He may say this today and change it tomorrow or in a week or 2. <p>Here read this and tell me what you think. <p>5 stages of grieving:<p> http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html <p>I am at work but will be watching the board for a couple more hours. <p>L.

Honey,<p>Okay - B R E A T H E - Practice breathing!<p>Wow - he sure knows how to push you along that roller coaster, and you just took two big huge deep dips.<p>Honey, the first thing you need to do is breathe; and take care of yourself. I don't think you are plan A'ing right now very well at all! 1) Why are you spending your limited time with your husband talking about the marriage? That is not a plan A conversation! Usually when the BS is talking about the marriage, they are focusing on their own needs, and not plan A! That was the first mistake!<p>2) Why are you talking about OW/H relationship? That is another taboo subject during plan A! <p>3) Why are you asking him to end the affair? Although it sounds reasonable, your husband is in a fog, why would that appeal to him? Again, not plan A conversation.<p>Honey, just breathe, and don't do anything - until you have a better understanding about plan A behaviors! You can't see it, but you are digging the hole that the marriage is in, only deeper!<p>Plan A is about NOT lovebusting (talking about marriage is a lovebuster for your husband who is in fog; talking about OW is a lovebuster also; and asking to have the affair end is definitely a lovebuster!)<p>Remember, WS defines what a lovebuster is - so there is VERY little safe territory here. The little time that you have with him needs to be in that safe territory - not on your needs - or not how your husband is NOT meeting your needs!<p>Okay Breathe, stop, and do not interact with him unless it is QUALITY interaction! This is not about your needs, honey! <p>Hang in there, and.... shhhhh!!!!<p>TNT

Honey ~<p>You are the poster child for how NOT to plan A!<p>Why are you talking to him at ALL? Don't call him, and if he calls you, keep it to business (ie the kids) and NOT about your marriage or the OW!!!<p>Here's a Al-Anon reminder:<p>His truths do not have to be your truths.<p>Just because he says it, doesn't make it true.<p>But with that in mind, lets look at what you said he said:<p>1. I have ruined our marriage, <p>Partially TRUE - you had his help here. You both bear responsibility for where your marriage is today.<p>2. driven him away,<p>TRUE. Your own reports of your current behavior attest to this.<p>3. kept him away from his friends.... <p>FALSE. You can't control him. If you had this power he wouldn't be with the OW now would he...hmm?<p>4. Isolated him<p>FALSE. Again, his choices, not your control, affected his isolation.<p>5. Made him immature<p>FALSE. You can't MAKE him immature. His disease did that without your help.<p>6. Caused him to do bad by not supporting him<p>FALSE. This is yet another dodge of responsiblity and a classic alcoholic line.<p>7. Ruined his life<p>FALSE. He did that himself. <p>8. made him unhappy<p>FALSE. His disease, and his own choices have made him unhappy.<p>9. been violent<p>TRUE. A serious lovebusting Angry Outburst.<p>10. destroyed his things<p>TRUE. Lovebusting Angry Outbursts.<p>11. not been loving enough<p>Well, well, now we are getting down to the ENs you didn't meet. I'm going to make this a TRUE - you didn't love him the way he needed to experience love. Whether or not it is possible to love an alcoholic "enough" is a totally different question though...<p>12. not cleaned house enough<p>TRUE. So it looks like you didn't meet his need for Domestic Support.<p>13. not taken care of myself enough
14. too fat
15. not pretty enough anymore<p>I'll lump these together. TRUE. You didn't meet his need for an Attractive Spouse.<p>16. not fun enough anymore<p>I'm going to say TRUE. But with a caveat. An alcoholic's idea of fun is more than a tad warped. But this could be read as a need for Recreational Companionship. And the typical co-dependent wife is far too busy fearfully controlling everyone around her to have time to have FUN.<p>You probably aren't much fun to be around.<p>17. drove him away<p>TRUE based on your current actions.<p>18. made him not love me anymore<p>TRUE. You didn't meet his needs and you lovebusted yourself right out of his heart.<p>19. drove away the person I loved, etc. etc.<p>Does this last mean that you drove away the H you used to love?<p>If that's the case...I'd say FALSE. He did that himself too.<p>Looks like there's some alcoholic fog mixed in with some clear hints and information about how and where you failed to meet your H's needs. This is valuable information that you can use for a good plan A. <p>I'm talking about Plan Adjust-your-own-behavior ... NOT Plan Abuse-your-spouse or Plan Appeasement.<p>So Honey, are you finished with your pity party? <p>Are you going to stop doing what you've always done - and are you going to stop expecting that something different is going to occur THIS time?<p>Yep, I know I'm being really harsh right now. But you are the cause of most of your own problems right now. Do you want to save your marriage?<p>If you keep this stuff up, you won't have a chance.

thanks tnt and orchid, read your thread orchid... I am definitely bopping along in the many stages... I have done freinship, and anger, and bargaining, depression, and etc. etc... even sex... BOY- am I confused.. this roller coaster is worse than I expected... I hav e a lot of respect for you guys who have been here longer than me... I hope to get to accepta nce... I am actually kind of scared of OW now... and afraid to have her in my lifee... she bought a gun... kind of scary... I just wish she would decide she loves her own husband... I do not know how to do this, but I will try one baby step at a time... I am goign to stop talking about the marriae, and start trying to score love depostis with H on other areas now... He did do his emotional needs Q so I know some of what he wants, what do yall think... focus on that stuff when we get to talk.. not begging him not to file.. but building his ever needy person into a stronger H and person who doesn't need an OW to make him feel better?<p>Thanks again, I appreciate you so much, I am getting stronger... I need to , and will be me again. Thanks, LHONEY

thanks bramble rose, know my chances are very slim right now.. but working my hinney off to save what is left... I have to find my book on plan aing surviving an affair.. guess when plan a started to work... being nice, etc... I started moving in and trying to make him break off all contact with the OW... NO< doesn't work...I can't make it stop... I have to love him back to me, right? with no talk about relationship etc.<p>I have been worred about going to counseling , is counseling important to bring him back, plan a, does not include relationshi ptalk right.? So should we stop counseling.. kind of confused on that issue. thanks, lisa

Honey ...<p>Just a word of warning, Hon. Please don't use BrambleRoses's responses (1 - 19) on the thread above as verbal responses to your H, I believe they were for you alone.<p>I apologize ahead of time if I've made assumptions, I just wanted to make sure you don't try and educate your H, when in Plan A it's disrespectful.<p>You're getting such good advice from some of the most respected and experiencd MB Members here, Honey. Keep posting. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jo

Hi Hon, <p>I'll bet you are feeling a bit beat up tonight??? Well we would only say these things if we thought it could help and it appears to be so. Bramble Rose is saying a lot of good things to think about but it may hurt to hear. <p>Listen to her and listen carefully. She is helping you learn how to deal with the fogese and in the interim learn how to get control over your feelings. <p>Here try this: Every time you want to run and smother your H, imagine that alien from MIB. Coming out of the groun with all those arms and realize the one pushing you away is not your H. So don't try to hug an alien!!! <p>Now the fact that OW may have a gun makes it even more important to stay away. OW is probably just itchin for a reason to do you in and in the fog call it self defense. If that is true or even in the neighborhood of reality, you'd better be careful. Forget trying to help your H, you'd better protect yourself. K?<p>I am concerned here now and you need stay away from them like the plague. I am sure you have no trouble seeing ow as an alien. Maybe if you learn more, you can file charges that the OW carries a gun and you feel you and your family are feel threatened so an order can be put into place to keep her away from you and your chidlren. PUts H in a predicament but oh well, you have family safety to think about. K?<p>Some thoughts to ponder. Do it with a clear head. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hugz.
L.

Honey,<p>You are getting good advice as always. Listen to carefully to what they are telling you. <p>RE: I have done friendship, and anger, and bargaining, depression, and etc. etc... even sex... <p>Now it is time for Plan A… you are not ready for plan B.<p>RE: I am actually kind of scared of OW now... and afraid to have her in my life... she bought a gun... kind of scary... I just wish she would decide she loves her own husband... <p>You are giving OW far too much power in your life. Your H is the one who promised you something, not her. She is of no consequences to you. Treat her that way. Forget she exists. Concentrate on you, your husband, your marriage and your children. That’s it… nothing else. Every time you think of OW and get mad at her, you are letting her sap your strength.<p>She has a gun? Well sounds like you scared them… you attacked them both physically and tore up his ratty rug. Sounds like they may be scared of you. Or at least are being intimidating you. How do you know she has a gun? Did your H tell you this? It sounds like a veiled threat. Stay away from her, from any place she frequents. If you see her walk the other way. If she tried to approach or talk to you tell her that she is harassing you and to leave you alone. If she does not, call the police. If she comes to your house call the police. Do not go to your H’s house or call him right now. His house is a huge trigger for you and you might run into her. Do not call her husband either.<p>Let your H seek you out. Let him call you. Let him come to your house to visit you and the kids. You’re the queen of your own home. So be there, be regal and give him a safe place to come to visit you. Then, when he is there, plan A him like crazy. Fill his EN’s. What are they? Maybe we can help you think of ways to fill them.<p>Yep, don’t beg him to not file. If he says that he is going to file, then just respond “You will do what ever it is you feel you need to do. I do not want to divorce as I still love you and hope we can recover our marriage.” Say it calmly. <p>If he asks you to go to his house say something like “Though I would love to see you as you know you are my favorite squeeze, going to your house is too volatile for me. Could you come here instead. (or Could we meet in the park and go for a walk while we talk.) <p>RE: but building his ever needy person into a stronger H and person who doesn't need an OW to make him feel better? <p>While you hope you can influence this change in your H, that is a very dangerous was to think in plan A. We can only control ourselves, not others. You are not trying to change him. You are trying to change YOU. If he likes what he sees and find a safe place with you, he very well may return to you. DO NOT TRY TO EDUCATE OR CHANGE HIM. It will back fire.

thanks again, and yes I do hate his house, and want to stay away from it... etc. etc... Thanks again,... I am working on me, and he has already been over here several times since the rug incident, it was humiliating me to be at that house where he has been entertaining his OW... I just could not take it... last week he had the nerve to tell me... we may be able to work things out, but you should live here... not going back home... He lives in bad part of town.. artsy, party neighborhood where the twenty soemthings live, and party... etc... we live in burbs in a nice neoghborhood and home for our kids... <p>ANyway... I was desperate to get him out of that house, and felt like destroying it when I went in on christmas eve... I want him to start to hate that lonely cold place.. not me... he seems to think he just loves his bachelore pd.. but is ever ready for the ow to move on in.<p>thanks HONEY

Yes, H told me about her pistol, says a few months ago, yes, after attack by stupid me.. where she was not hurt thtat bad except pulled hair, yes, it was still bad but not murder here.... or bullet wounds... <p>OW came over to my Hs place and he sd she had the bullets in backwards,and they were going to blow up in her face, so he showed her how to load it properly.. major LB for me when I heard this.. he sd he did not want it to kill her, since she didn't knwo how to use it, says she goes to shooting range... also my H has a gun, as he bought it right afer he moved out... nonrelated to me at all... and anyway.... partly because i am afreaid of guns and never allowed at our home... also because he is an alcoholic and one time about 4 yrs ago aciciently shot off his gun 2x through the ceiling when we lived in an apratment and he was drunk cleaning his gun in the middle of the night while I was sleeping.. yes, I sure can pick em// we were evicted from aprt. at the time H was kind of in a big binge drinking sit... that took a while to calm... <p>Anyway... his reltaionship with this ow is the crziest thing i have ever seen or heard of... i am frightened for the reality of the situation... and the problems that may come to be... andywya... got to go to work.. and quit worrying..<p>thanksf or the support.. I am pulling me together now.

Honey ~ Jo correctly stated what I neglected to say. I wrote those responses for YOU only. Do not talk to your H about any of this!!<p>This is simply for your OWN education, and for your own plan A strategy.