Hi, <p>There have been several posts here lately about should I allow the WS back and if so how? <p>The WS in some cases think that they are doing the BS and family a favor by gracing us with their presence. That is not true. <p>I have made some statements out there that the WS can be allowed back but only if it is clear what 'value' they are bringing back to the family and it is the WS who should be grateful that the BS and family are allowing them back. <p>What do you all think about this logic?<p>L.<p>[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

Hi, Orchid.<p>Happy New Year to you! It's a little early here, yet, but almost!!<p>Anyway, in regard to your post, I'd like to add my comments....<p>You asked what do we think, and I'll tell you what I think. I'll probably get flamed for this, buuut, I think so many MB'ers want their S's back so much, they are willing to accept back ANY form of their former Ws/M.<p>So many WS's "come back home" in form only and do NOTHING to show they want to be there, or do any work to "repair" the damage, but because they are "home" the BS is so ecstatic, they accept whatever they have.<p>I'd better shut up now.<p> [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Lupo

I think, since it's a MUTUAL DECISION to come back together and work on the relationship that BOTH parties should feel grateful. Both sides are there working on things only because they want to be.

I have to agree with Orchid. I allowed my H to come back through numerous affairs. He never wanted to talk about it...he just wanted to get back to our normal life. Well, it happened over and over.<p>The hurt was always horrendous. His reply to anything was "Look, I am sorry...you will end everything if you don't let this go. So, for the most part, I had to heal alone. I don't know why he felt I was so disposable....I guess after the first major affair in 90...he realized that even after being so horrible to me, I would take him back. I was pregnant and scared and had a 7 and 5 year old. It was and awful recovery.<p>During the B2 years...his head got so big. He was one of the leaders on base and was being wined and dined all over the country by contractors. He is a good looking man--extremely good looking and he attracted available women. They didn't care that he was married. One of them even called him here at home. He was in his own world....he compartmentalized and had this adventurous life and then our family life. He wasn't even that upset when I found out about his affair the fall before he retired. It was weird, it was like he deserved these women. What a waste of time. I don't know why I stayed with him as long as I did. Logically, I know this --but my heart still misses the family part of him. Rejection is really a killer. <p>The other night it hit me...in the past, he always came home. Guess that is so hard about this time. Do I really want him again...No...just miss him. Hopefully, those feelings go away. <p>Happy New Year Everyone !!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I agree orchid, this is not "let's just all forget the past and play nicey nice". The ws should (well bs as well actually) be absolutely prepared for radical honesty, rules of protection, and full committment to createing a passionate marriage. This means they need to decide they want to be there, not come back cause op wandered off, or turned out to be a loser, not cause they got chicken and just don't want to deal with "problems" anymore, not cause they feel guilty and don't want folks mad or unhappy with them...etc. etc.<p>Actually I kinda have this problem in reverse. I know my w would "take" me back (although I am not as gone as many ws, since I am still here, and working on stuff, and in no contact) in the sense if I just stopped trying to figure out what I want, she would be content to just be sure I was not wandering, and meeting some minimum amount of her needs. But I cannot just let all this stuff go, I need to be able to look her in the eye and tell her I want nothing more than to be here, in this relationship the rest of my life....cause I know if I don't do that, it will never be right, and sadness will just lie ahead for both of us. I don't have any problem with no contact and rules of protection, those are no-brainers IMO, the real issue is committment. Not just doing it, not just the head, but the heart too. And IMO that is what every bs should require..... and as well, every ws should require of the bs, cause often enough the bs motivations are not so pure either.

Orchid,<p>I have to agree with your logic here. For me, I had to be ASSURED that it was worth my while to take my WS back after the damage he had caused. It took several months of a good Plan A on his part to prove to me that he had changed. And I have to say that over the past year I have fallen back in love with him because he did such a good job. <p>I would not have taken him back if he had not been remorseful and completely willing to reprove himself to me. In fact, for the first 6 months I was on the fence about him staying. But I don't see how we would have ever got to that point if he hadn't been completely willing, not to mention the fact that I just wouldn't have been interested in continuing the relationship.

Orchid,<p>Yeppers.... <p>Especially in a case like yours in which your WS has drug you through the most awful situations and mistreated you so terribly. If he did not have something extra of value to offer, why on earth would you take him back?<p>TowardsTheFuture... yes it would be nice if both parties could feel greatful. If you will reread Orchid's post, she is talking about a tendency that we see a lot of here on MB in which the WS constantly rubs the BS's face in the some fantisy that the BS should walk on eggs because they have blessed the BS with their continued presence. I believe that Orchid is trying to say that these WS's could use some humility and some intersection.<p>Yes it should be a mutual decision and both parties should be greatful and respectful. Sometimes it just does not work that way.

I'm still a very new post-A WS, and it's my SO's faith in me and in us that gives me strength when I'm feeling weak, down, or discouraged. It's his compassion and his love that make me want to go to him when I'm feeling down, instead of picking up the phone and calling the OM. Of course, all of that would have meant nothing if I hadn't been honestly willing to work on our relationship and work with him to make things better for both of us. If I hadn't made the initial decision to confess to the affair and if I hadn't been genuinely sorry for it, it wouldn't be working either.<p>My point is...both sides have to love each other, support each other, and forgive each other as much as possible...no one can untimately put a relationship back together alone. It takes work...hard work, from both sides...and both sides should be grateful.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
<strong><p>My point is...both sides have to love each other, support each other, and forgive each other as much as possible...no one can untimately put a relationship back together alone. It takes work...hard work, from both sides...and both sides should be grateful.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I think it's a little stretch to say that I am grateful or that a BS should be grateful. Maybe some are, and that is thier preogative. But, I am not grateful at all that my H had an EA. <p>I had to settle for damaged goods in allowing him to stay, ie: a person with demonstrated untrustworthiness whom I can NEVER fully trust again. A person with whom I will always have to watch my back. I am certainly not grateful for that sacrifice. He is very grateful that I forgave him and let him stay, though. I am glad that we made it through the crisis, but in no way grateful that it happened.

TowardsTheFuture,<p>You are so right in both of your posts on this thread.<p>You have done exactly what Orchid is talking about. You have accepted your responsibility in making your marriage work as well as brought that something extra to the table… the willingness to work on your marriage. It does not sound like you are blackmailing your H … “if you do not tip toe around me I’m going to call OM.”<p>My current H (STL for short) had a very similar approach as you do… he was not emotionally attached to anyone else so that made it easier for us. What he ‘brought to the our marital recovery of value’ is his attitude. He feels that he had done something very harmful to me and our marriage that it is therefore his responsibility to own up to it and help me and our marriage heal.<p>You see, what you are doing with your H, your willingness to work with him and your understanding of the things he is doing for you both is exactly what Orchid is talking about… that is your ‘something of value’. That is all she is talking about. And yet it is EVERYTHING. Your approach and frame of mind seem to be exactly what is needed to save your marriage. I wish you all the luck.<p>Here is link that might explain a little more of the perspective...<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html<p>If there is anyone here who understands that “...both sides have to love each other, support each other, and forgive each other as much as possible...no one can ultimately put a relationship back together alone. It takes work...hard work, from both sides...and both sides should be grateful.” it is Orchid. And to be truthful all MB’ers understand that. So we understand that when the WS does not work with the BS the marriage will not recover. That is what Orchid means. <p>Guess you have to be around here a while to understand how some of us talk to each other. Have you read the threads by Honey and seen what her life is like right now. If you were to read those you might understand what Orchid is talking about. She is in so many ways saying what you are saying from a different angle.<p>[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

You are right O, I think it is a mutual decision and BOTH parties have to a) want to work at it and b) Use the MB concepts, and plan for maritial recovery.<p>I just hope my WS gives me the "chance" to fix our M, and not the "other" choice.

Orchid, I agree with Lupo. I would take my ww back in any form. I know I would do a better job meeting her needs. WW is miserable away from family. I would just like a civil phone call (without the outrages) at this point.

Orchid----this thread is timely for me. I keep hearing rumors (from my adult children) that WS is working at coming back to me (he is telling them that). My fear is that he thinks that he does not have to do anything about changes. I think he thinks that he made a mistake. <p>I agree with you totally but don't know how to communicate the need for change and to unveil the reasons for A.<p>I can see the reason why BS feel desperate to have WS back...we want out lives back but sometimes not specifically the WS. I fear being firm and stating what I feel is important to rebuilding. WS just does not seem to be on the same wavelength as I am. I almost feel happier without him but miss him at the same time. I do not know where I will get the energy to work on this if need be.<p>Hope this New year brings many rewarding challenges and accomplishments to all.<p>TW

I don't mean feeling grateful that the affair took place...of course you shouldn't be grateful for such a horrible thing. But...isn't it wonderful when a WS is honestly willing to make the CHOICE to take responsibility for what they've done? As a WS I can tell you that it's a very hard thing to do, to deal with. You may just see it as "the least they can do", and it is, but getting to that point can be very very HARD to do...and you should, as a BS, be grateful when it happens. Be grateful that they finally took the high road...because they did it for themselves but they also did it for you...and it wasn't the least bit easy.<p>It's obvious why a WS would be grateful for the forgiveness of their BS...but maybe not so obvious why the BS should be grateful. I still contend that both sides should be truly grateful, thankful, and appreciative that their SO made the conscious decision.<p>Forgive me if I'm just making the same point over and over, or if I'm just not getting your point. I'm probably just not getting it...if the WS isn't ready to acknowledge responsibility and really work on the relationship, then why are people bothering with them until they're ready? They won't be ready until they truly decide to be themselves, right? Why put yourself through trying to work on a relationship with someone who won't acknowledge the wrong they've done? I don't get it...

TTF,<p>Those who take responsibility whether BS, WS, whoever can heal.... those who don't and continue to expect others to do their bidding for them won't heal and often pull others down in the process. It is to those that this thread is directed to. Those who claim to 'want to come home but only on their terms'. <p>See that happens a lot. The BS allows that and I see that as a constant cause for the amount of false starts. The BS needs to respect the values of the BS and not allow the WS to walk all over them. A WS in true remorse does not have a problem in this area but the majority of the Ws' have this problem and it is to their BS' that I dedicate this thread. <p>We (the BS) while establishing their boundaries need to not push our needs aside. Not bow down to the whims of the Ws. The WS should not bully the BS into submission to accept them as they are syndrome. <p>The WS who claims they want to come back should be required to show value. The BS and family are already showing value so why should the WS be any different? Yes, there is a healing period so perfection is not what is being requested here but definitly it should be enough of an effort so that the BS is not asking "Is my WS really in recovery?"<p>L.<p>[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>