WH says he can't be that cruel and just call or write a letter to OW ending their A relationship. WH said that is very vindictive on my part to ask WH to just end it without explanations. I told him that I was just looking at the no-contact veiwpoint from the 6 month timeline for his withdrawal from the last contact, I guess I am a little impatient He said that after their 5 hour motel visit Fri. and their talking after sex he knew he had to end his A, but he thinks OW has no idea about ending the A relationship. <p> WH was to call OW, but because I asked him not to he said that it was cruel to OW. (One night stand for 5 hours and then OW went home to OW' husband - OWH works the night sift.) WH said he needs to show her some respect and explain way he is now willing to recommit to his M.<p> I think he temporarily came out of the"fog" to see what his one-night fling was, and what it said about him and his sexual fantasies. His last PA with the OW was nine months ago and WH never mentioned giving up OW and working on our M until he call me a 5:30A.m saying hewas sorry and love me and now was ready to recommit to our marriage. So far it has been 5 days of not calling the OW after they met last. WH told the OW he would call, but that was before he had from midnight to 3a.m. to think about himself & us.<p> I am still hurting - WH asked if I can forgive him,agin. I told him that I loved him and was still hurt & upset. I said I would like him to make no-contact agreement and get STD tests. <p> What do you think - is WH just trying to get some forgiveness this time so later he can do the same thing? <p> We have a counseling appt. tonight what are some things I can discuss inaccordance to Plan A and being nonjudgemental.

Exploding,
He thinks he should show respect & consideration to the OW, but what about his accountability & promises to you?<p>I don't know your story, but if he just was with her and is saying these kinds of think...I kind of doubt that contact ever ended. I think this is more likely to be an ongoing affair, even if it hasn't been physical for awhile, it is now again.<p>I think a counseling appt for tonight is excellent timing. You can certainly Plan A...but it isn't being "nonjudgmental" it is not saying "disrespectful judgements". Your H's behavior is wrong. It isn't disrespectful to say so in a calm, respectful way.<p>Good luck at your appointment, just lay out the facts as you have here, and I think a good counselor will be able to work with both of you.

Exploding (and you should be!) --<p>I say NONSENSE! No contact means no contact! Over means over. If H is serious about a reconciliation, he's got to break off the A completely and finally, not leave the door ajar by seeing her one last time. "Explanations" are not necessary--to whom does he owe his first loyalty?<p>You're not just a "little impatient," you have every right to be very impatient with H. I'm encouraged that he came to the realization on his own that he had to end the A, but I'm skeptical of his methods. Ask yourself what is more "cruel" to you (the person he MUST restore to wholeness and trust): 1. to break it off totally with no further contact; or 2. to ease out with a last visit or similar. It's pretty obvious to me.<p>Even if he's emotionally attached to OW, for his sake and, more importantly, for yours, he's got to make a clean and definite break = no further contact, ever, in person, on the phone, email, etc...nothing. <p>Of course you're still hurting and upset. I see mixed messages from H. Either he's recommitting to you or he's not. Either he's ending the A or he's not. No more fence-sitting--don't allow it!<p>Hang in--we're thinking about you. Please post again soon so we can find out how you're doing. <p>I wish you Peace and Blessings,
Ammon

From Dr.Harley-- RE: the way an affair SHOULD end: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone. <p>My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent. <hr></blockquote><p>Best of luck to you, Exploding.<p>I was NOT able to convince my H to send such a letter [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] ; however, even though the no contact letter was never sent, we were able to save our marriage.<p>Peace to you and your family! ~Marie

Hi Exploding,<p>from Exploding:
[WH says he can't be that cruel and just call or write a letter to OW ending their A relationship. WH said that is very vindictive on my part to ask WH to just end it without explanations. ]<p>Is your H actually saying that it is necessary to see the OW again in person to do his explaining? If so, it is an excuse to see her again. I wonder what he would do if you say, OK, honey, I understand. I would never want you to be cruel or disrespectful. However, if the contact must be in person, I'll will go with you.<p>We won't go there with his being cruel and disrespectful to you, though, huh. Rationalization and evasion, pure and simple. And self-defense is not vindictiveness. He has proven himself untrustworthy, so why should you trust him?<p>IMO, yes, your H does want forgiveness without suffering any consequences. He is manipulating to get the pressure off of himself. Explain to him that trust has to be earned and that takes time. Forgiveness also takes time. He hasn't stopped doing what he is asking you to forgive him for, i.e. infidelity. But let's hope he will NOT do the same thing again as a result of your application of MB principles and his sincere recommitment to you.<p>Stay firm. I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this insult.<p>Estes

Exploding..<p>Speaking from the Male, BS point of view, that No contact letter needs to be in the mail now! ASAP! No excuses! I wish you the best!<p>Take Care<p>Bryan

I guess D-20 (home from college)had a discussion with WH last night while I was gone for 30 min. and again early this morning about 4:30 a.m. because she was still upset about her previous talk with him. She told me about it at little while ago. She has no idea about plan A, but she said she knew he wasn't being open & honest with her about his intentions or his present actions so she asked directly. She said she asked many things that would make him defensive if I asked, but he would have to respond to her asking.<p> She knew she could ask and say many things with anger and from her point of view. I don't know if this will scare WH into making him just give up and run so he doesn't have to face the reality of what he has done. She is the first person who he has received a judgment about his present character and didn't hold anything back with "sugarcoating" the situation.

Exploding,
I think your daughter talking to him is a good thing. He is her father, and always will be, no matter if you are married to him or not.<p>I know that when my then 14 year old told my H that she wouldn't forgive him for lying to HER (about never leaving us again)...it was part of the the fog clearing. He had told me he "wasn't leaving the kids, only you, Lor". Well, duh, they couldn't see his logic as he was no longer living at home, and not there sometimes when they needed him, or to answer "why isn't dad here?"<p>He really did his best to be a good dad while we were separated, but it didnt' make any difference to her at that time, she really lost respect for him, and has told him so. Lots of healing for him to do in those relationships as well.

It really comes down to her (OW) feelings or yours. Which is more important. If work, church or other family members are not involved, then your feelings are all that "should" matter... period. <p>See SAA for how WS would "like" to end an affair. I think it referrers to "taking a cruise together". I think this is so they can have fond memories of the EMA, and further flare-ups down the road. <p>If he insists on seeing her to break it off, then you might insist on being present.<p>
JMHO,
HI

Exploding --<p>Just a quick "I second that" in response to Hi Infidelity's wonderful suggestion (which I will repost): <p>If he insists on seeing her to break it off, then you might insist on being present.<p>I also agree, if a "final good-bye" is necessary (which I question), that it be in the form of a letter as recommended by Dr. Harley. I also agree with his further suggestion that the BS should read and approve it before it's sent. My W made her "final" goodbye by phone and I've regretted not insisting on a letter ever since. I wish we had the clarity of the moment that hindsight brings us. <p>Stand your ground with this--no more contact!<p>Ammon

Dear Exploding<p>Ya know, it is sooo hard because - you just love him so much, that you really are afraid of losing him, again. <p>But - I think you should decide how much longer you can continue to allow him to do the cake-walk, in my opinion; preparing yourself for an eventual plan B, in the meantime, try to explain that you believe no-contact is what is required for you to continue to work on restoring the marriage. <p>Make the time between now and plan B the best you can for your husband - with no, none, zippo lovebusters. <p>(((exploding)))
TNT

Not as cruel as starting the A and not asking your permission. This is babbling.....<p>My H said the same thing. Trying to reason with him just make him angry and me tired. So when he said he did not want to upset the OW, I said 'yes, I do not want you to upset ME!' <p>When H said he did not want to aggravate the OW, I said 'yes, I do not want you to aggravate ME!'<p>When H said OW might do something stupid, hey I drew the line on that response and just said "ok, let her!'<p>See how to babble back? <p>L.