Alot has happened over the past two weeks. I took a sabatacle from here for a while. I find it is a huge trigger for me, and although it hurts that I am not able to be here as often as I would like for you guys, I know it is best if I try to stop coming here as often.<p>So here is what is up with me:<p>-Marriage counseling is on hold. We will meet occassionally, but they will not be on again until my H has gone to enough individual counseling sessions to finally take responsibility for his affair (among other things he is working on, like not taking his anger out on me or blaming me for his stuff).<p>-OW is permanently gone from our state and somewhere far, far away. We think she left a couple of months ago, but we were never REALLY sure (and my H didn't care to try and find out). So, there was always that fear of running into her at a store or school or something. Since the term is ended though, we are sure she is gone. This means we can now pass through the town she lived in and go shopping there w/o anxiety for either of us.<p>-My H finally filled out the questionnaire's <p>-My H finally wrote to my ex best friend and cleared up the lies he said to her about me (she sided with him)<p>-I am starting to make up with my ex best friend, but we are still far from there.<p>-Last night we finally had our bonfire and burnt anything else remaining in the house that even remotely reminded either of us of OW.<p>-H is still very angry inside. Spent the 22nd-24th totally PO'd at me because of the counseling session we had on the 21st (where the counselor said we can't go any farther until H gets more individual counseling). <p>-H gave me a gift certificate to a romantic hotel and a heart shaped box with a necklace with the symbol of "LOVE" on it for Christmas. Oh, and a sweet card, which, of course, he didn't sign. MEN.<p>-My H and I are still at odds about his "career choice". I say I will not be happy being married to a man who travels that much, and he says I need to tell him if that means it's over right away because he doesn't want to waste his time getting back together only to break up again. I tell him, he has choices just as much as me. He is chosing his career over his family, I am choosing the kind of life I can and cannot live with. Anyway, it is a source of anxiety for me. It's still a while before he finishes his degree. OH! and then there's this whole graduate school thing where we will most likely have to uproot ourselves, I have to quit my job of 6 years, and move thousands of miles from our families. Like, I really want to do all that just so my H won't be there cuz' he will be traveling. Yeah, right, I don't think so. Again, that's at least a year away. Sigh.<p>-Oh yeah, and my H "ran away" for a day on the 26th. My parents were coming to visit and he freaked (hasn't seen anyone in either family for over 6 months), called and said he is on his way to "Dan's" house and he'll be back tomorrow. He didn't know the guy's last name, no phone number, nothing. He ran away again, he tends to run away alot. The worst part is that I asked him specifically not to do this, he didn't have to be there, but not to run away like that at the last minute. I was pretty PO'd but only LB'd a little.<p>-I am back in the depths of despair. I don't really know why, things seem to be going well. Well, there's the travel thing, and then there are the nightmares and anxiety attacks about OW. I keep dreaming that she has come back, or about other lies, or just the whole affair in general. And then there is just this fear that I just can't forgive my H for what he has done. I know he has to accept responsibility first and want forgiveness, but even if that happens, I just don't know if I can put it past me. I'm back on anti-depressants, but I sort of screwed them up (missed a few days), so maybe that has something to do with it... My H has been pretty good though, holding me alot, trying to reassure me, talking about OW even when he doesn't want to, calling me on long car rides so my mind won't wander, etc.<p>Anyway, that is my life. Some bad, mostly good. Still on the rollercoaster ride. Sorry it's so long, but like I said, lots of stuff happened. Thanks all, I feel a heck of a lot better now that I got this out and was able to post. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hope you all are doing well. <p>HbH

HbH...<p>Time and Patience, Time and Patience...<p>You may feel some despair but I read more positives in your post than negatives.<p>Look how far you have come...<p>And hey---in the meantime you have an unsigned romantic card that you can reuse [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Time & Patience...<p>take care <p>E

Thanks Elad. That got a good laugh out of me. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry to hear things are not going so well for you. I do hope things clear up. I really feel that if your W is able to avoid OM and truly does as she intends and does not get led astray, things will get much, much better for the two of you.<p>I will try and head your advice. It is very good advice. I also have lots of things I can do, I just don't have the motivation for some reason. Don't feel like reading any more self-help books right now, but I am doing lots of other stuff for me, just not really for the marriage. Except trying to meet my H's EN's (now that I know them).<p>HbH

Missed you!<p>Just wanted to say that forgiveness is more for you than it is for your H. He truly doesn't need to repent and take responsibility for you to let go of it. I know it's hard, but try to put all the anger and pain at the Cross of Jesus. He'll take it away for you. Don't rely solely on your H for that. I forgive (in secret) my H every day when he drops me off at the bus, then goes to visit OW each morning before work. It's hard, but I'm more at peace and the anger doesn't surface like it used to. Of course my M is not going to survive, but I know now that I am able to forgive even when I don't feel he deserves it. When Jesus died on the Cross for us, none of us deserved for him to make that sacrifice....and yet he did it for us anyway. Please pray for a forgiving heart. God will help you to forgive, and also help you to let go of the anxiety. I will say a prayer for you to have peace and forgiveness in your heart for your H. As hard as you've worked to try to save your M, don't let the doubts, anger, pain and anxiety turn that decision for you.<p>PEACE,<p>MOM

Hi MoM. Thanks for the advice. BTW, I hope your visit with the lawyer goes well tomorrow. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I will try. I am not a very forgiving person, and to top it off, this is the one thing, the ONE thing, I have always said I could never forgive. Many times to my H have I said this well before it happened, and I meant it. To go back now and try to change my resolve, my conviction, is very tough indeed and I do not feel I can do it under the present circumstances. I have tried similar techniques to no avail.<p>I think I just need a whole heck of alot of time. Lots of praying (as you suggested), and to want it more. I suppose it's not very high on my priority list in perspective to other things...<p>You are very strong to be able to do that everyday and I applaude you. I do not think I could do it...<p>Anyway, thanks!
HbH

Hi HbH,<p>Good to hear from you!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] You sound much stronger in back in the saddle. he he he!! <p>Still taking a dip with his running away but maybe as he finds that true friends don't go away like fake ones, he will come around... eh??!?!? Hope so. <p>Heres a hug to you and your family. <p>I will catch up with you laters. K?
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
L.

Hi HbH,<p>It was good to hear from you. You sound so much stronger. Still sounds like a tough situation--but you seem to be handling it pretty well.<p>When I worked through my H's other affairs...it took time...lots of time to get back to a workable, loving relationship. Unfortunately, we didn't have the skills I have learned about now to help keep our marriage affair proof..and maybe it wouldn't have helped us anyway. <p>But I do want to tell you that it takes time...time to heal the wounds. You never forget--but the pain does get less--and most of the time, I didn't even think about it. You can do it--just don't expect it all at once. Good Luck!!!

Hey Hurt...<p>I was thinkin' about YOU today...was gonna post and/or email you...<p>Was glad to see your update...<p>My H and I seem to be in a good spot right now...there was evidence of contact in Nov. (phone call after one of those BIG discussions I was so silly to start...you know "relationship" talks...)<p>But the two weeks we have been off from school for the winter break have been really good...I have almost 'felt' my old H back...<p>My family and his family had a big Christmas gathering for dinner...we spent much time with his family as his sister and her daughter were here from Alabama and his brother was here from NY.<p>My family left this past Sunday for Phoenix (my mom and sister went to be with other sister there). <p>There haven't been BIG changes ...just some small meaningful ones for me (like stroking my hair or holding me tight after ... you know...) also we have cuddled on couch while watching movies ... <p>I have been better at not letting things go unsaid...but also not going to far with the discussion...PMS time is still a big problem ...but I am really trying to keep myself aware and under control...<p>You take care...it was good to hear from you.<p>Cali

Hi Orchid! Yeah, we'll have to talk soon. It's hard now that H is back home to find time. We spend every night playing video games, reading, movies, sex, or something after the kids go to bed. Not that I'm complaining! Just don't have much time to talk or go online that's all...<p>Yeah, he is still running away. Now at least, it is not from me or the kids, now it is from family he has not seen that he is scared to face. <p>MnM, thanks for replying! I am glad to hear it takes time. That is what I keep telling myself. I think everyone wishes there was just some magic button one could press and make it all better... I am feeling much better today. Finally resolved alot of things with my friend that sided with H (double betrayal on D-day #3). No nightmare last night! Who-hoo, although I did almost faint a couple of times, not sure what that was about. I wonder if this medicine is having a weird affect on me... Only been on it for about 4-5 weeks now. <p>Anyway, I digress, thanks again for the support. <p>Cali, wow, glad to hear things seem to be going better for you! I read some of your posts on the dreams and it was weird. I've been having some pretty weird ones myself lately... Glad to hear your holidays are going well. How are the kids? They must have loved Christmas. Mine did. My only problem now is that my 19-month old still won't talk. He stopped a little bit after my H left in June. The doctor says not to panic, but it still worries me. I mean no words, not even ma-ma or anything. Just shakes his head yes/no, he's very bright and understands everything. Just refuses to talk.<p>Anyway, it was good to hear from all of you! I wish you all the best and I will try to check in periodically and see how everyone is doing. Hugs and Kisses to all.<p>HbH

Just wanted to reassure you on the not talking thing...<p>My three have had VERY different verbal'ness'. Oldest wasn't much of a talker, but when he did he blew us away [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .
Middle hardly talked until three or so...he still has a bit of a speech thing...sounds like he's from Boston 'cause he drops his 'r's and has trouble with his 'y's.
Now, my youngest...almost 3...keeps right up with his brothers...says everything, AND, I mean EVERYTHING his brothers do...very funny sometimes...<p>anyway...don't worry too much...<p>Yes, our kids enjoyed Christmas...we had a simple year this year...focused more on the family and had fewer presents...while the cousins were in town we went bowling and rollerskating...lots of fun for both the kids and the adults [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Hugzzz to you,
Cali

HbH,<p>Thanks for the update. It seems like you and your H have made some really good progress! I especially like the bonfire, therapeutic that. His effort at 'reparation making' is good too (the letter to your ex-bestF). And I am a real believer in putting the horse before the cart, so your H getting serious about IC is really key.<p>As for the depths of despair, I can certainly understand that. While H and I (and our kids) had an amazing Christmas, I had a giant meltdown a few days later. I still don't quite understand it, posted a question over on In Recovery. It seems like a number of people are dealing with post-holiday funk in their Ms.<p>Are you seeing an IC, HbH? The anti-depressants are important, but if you can see someone for you own personal recovery, I think you will find a marked improvement in your own sense of well being.<p>Forgiveness is one of those topics that there is often discussion about on these forums. I agree that the BS can forgive, even if the WS has not asked for forgiveness and has not really taken responsibility, has not repented or truly made reparations; BUT I think that M recovery is hampered in a big, big way without those elements. My personal experience is that until H finally took responsibility for his stuff, including his choice to have an A and the damage that it caused, our M recovery was stuck at a certain place. I genuinely believe that it would have stayed stuck at that same place without his seeing an IC, deciding to make changes, and really accepting responsibility for his actions. Since then, he actually has been genuinely remorseful, truly repentant, and making reparations; and I am closer to complete forgiveness with every passing day. As for M recovery, it has progressed in leaps and bounds since that point.<p>You are definitely on the right track. Time, patience, consistency, a detailed recovery plan, belief in what you are doing, your best efforts, faith in the process, and just doing the best you can - these things will get keep you two on the road to recovery.<p>As for the 'open issues', H's travelling, anger and avoidance techniques (ugh!), you just need to hang on while the ride continues. I found that my H's anger was much better after regular IC, but it continues to be one of the biggest issues in our relationship (although the vestiges of his anger towards me relating to the A, the blaming etc., seem to be gone); it may be that his anger management will always be a live issue, only time will tell; in any event, my personal boundaries are very different and I handle his anger in a different manner now. We have had avoidance issues also, but that is getting much better; H has begun to face some of our close friends who know about the A, another form of responsibility taking. Travelling might well be one of those things that needs you two to be farther along in recovery in order to negotiate effectively. Much as the BS would like to see all the major sources of insecurity disappear, preferably yesterday, that just does not seem to happen in so many cases. My H kept right on travelling for the first full year after d-day, notwithstanding a promise early on not to be away overnight (one of those empty promises); now, he does not travel at all and simply does not accept contracts that require him to be away from home. I don't recall repeating this request recently, but it just seems to have happened, as though when I stopped making a fuss, he stopped needing to make a point; or something like that.<p>Sorry for the long reply, just wanted to tell you that even the lingering issues do get better. Even if all the sources of conflict cannot be eliminated, they can certainly be minimized, negotiated around, and accepted in a much more minor state.<p>Happy New Year.<p>Hugs to you,<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: OneDay ]</p>

Thanks Cali!! That does make me feel better. I guess it would not be a big deal if he just never talked, but he was saying lots of words, a little higher than average for his age, then BAM, nothing. <p>It's hard to accept the impact our relationship had on him. My oldest knew all her letters, her name, could recite whole books verbatim, and was fully potty-trained at the age of 18 months. My 2nd was slow and talked very, very little until around 2 1/2. <p>This one just worries me because it was definately a re-lapse, not slow development. It's different, y'no?<p>Anyway, I guess I won't wory about it much for now and just keep doing as the doctor says for now.<p>Oneday, you are a godsend. I am going to reply to you separately on the recovery board so I can be sure you get my reply.<p>HbH

Dang HbH,<p>How did I miss this post!<p>Like Elad said, HbH ... time and patience seem to be the key words around here. <p>Your H will probably be angry for a bit longer, it'll take time for him to figure out where the appropriate place is to direct it. And the blame will dissipate with the anger, thank God!<p>For me the blaming was the worse part, made me very depressed with feelings of hopelessness. Having the person who knows and loves you most in the world blaming you for things can put a big dent in your self esteem, don't let it. He will learn in counseling where the responsibility lys, and it's squarely on his shoulders. <p>I feel somewhat bad for him that he ran away on the 26th. I do understand how he must have felt, probably harbors some embarressment and shame for all that has happened. Maybe give him some time with the in-laws. <p>He is really trying, he's doing all the right things. They're all good intentions it seems, Counseling, Burning OW stuff together, Filling out the questionnaire's, Writing clarity letter to your ex-best friend ... I think you two are really on your way. <p>I know you've been hanging over on the Recovery Board HbH, but please stop by and give us updates. The board doesn't seem the same without you around. Plus we need to know how you are. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Love,
Jo<p>[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hey, HbH!<p>Did you see my reply to your thread to me over on In Recovery? You probably did, but I just wanted to make sure.<p>
I'm also waving 'hello' at everyone else on this thread.<p>
Hugs,<p>OneDay

Bump! ^

Hey Jo, thanks for bumping this one up for me! I must have missed it the first time you replied...<p>Been quite busy. Thanks for all the encouraging words. I do hope you are right. In fact, I was going to post yesterday because I was feeling very, very anxious and nervous, which was weird because I was EXTREMELY happy that day and the day before.<p>Then I realized that for the past 2 1/2 years, EVERY time I was that happy, came a huge crash. D-day, H saying he didn't love me for the 1st time, H saying he was going to move out, the list goes on and on. Pretty much whenever we had a really happy moment in the past, he had to bring it down by hurting me, cuz' he didn't "deserve" to be happy, or he felt guilty, or whatever. This is what I think anyway, can't think of any other reason why H would choose the happiest times to give the "bad news".<p>But, we survived this time. No bad news for the first time... I talked to H about this last night and he said he thought he was sending out bad vibes because he has kind of been strung out at work, but he assured me that it wasn't me or the kids this time (or him projecting those feelings onto us so that it appeared we were the problem). He didn't say that explicitly, but he did implicitly.<p>It feels so weird to actually be really happy. I totally forgot what it felt like, or even realized I was missing out on it. I didn't realize I stopped trying to be really happy because I was afraid of being hurt (the big crash). Oh sure, I was happy often in the past 2 1/2 years, but not very often REALLY happy (like glowing, giddy, life is wonderful happy). And when I was that happy, always a crash.<p>But, hopefully the cycle has stopped completely...
Which, I'm excited about.<p>Anyway, just wanted to reply and let you know what was up, and thank you for your kind words. I try to catch up as much as I can on everyone, but it is tough...<p>And, Oneday, yes, I got your wonderful reply - thank you very much. It does help.<p>HbH