Well, first off thank you all for the responses to my recent posts. I have not responded because so much keeps happening.<p>New Years Eve wnt OK. I was calm, we managed to enjoy the evening as much as possible.<p>Yesterday was quiet, until my S went to bed. My H told me he is leaving. I asked when, he said he did not know yet, that he had to find a place. We talked for a long time after that. About where things went wrong...etc. He told me that his "leaving me does'nt mean he is turning his back on me". (Someone want to get out the fogese dictionary and expain that one to me please.) <p>He asked me if it was just him, that he alone was the one who felt like everything was hopeless. I said yes.<p>Well, today was the straw that broke this camels back. I intercepted another e-mail from OW to my H. In it she talks about how important he is to her. How just a look from him sends shivers down her spine all the way to her toes.<p>I lost it. I called my H and said that I was going to ask a question and that I wanted the truth. I asked him if they were involved, he said no. I asked him if she had made it clear that she wanted to be involved and was waiting for him. He said no. I then told him he was lying and I knew he was lying. He said he was'nt and thats when I spilled the beans. Told him I had his password and had read the e-mail. Read it to him over the phone. Told him that it did not sound to me like she was moving on.<p>He came home then. He told me he had lost all respect for me over this, I pulled up an e-mail he sent her at the beginning of the A and told him that he lost all respect for me the day he sent that e-mail. That his total lack of respect for me was obvious in the continued point blank lies he told me every day. I told him that I was done fighting for him, That I was not going to fight her for him that she had won, but she was getting damaged goods. I already had the best of him when we were first married, that the person he is now is not a person I want to be with. That I deseved better, I deserved a husband that was not going to lie to me, that could love me even when the going got tough, and did not just run away at the first sign of trouble. I told him he was released from all vows<p>He said he was going to leave immediatly, I told him not to bother that I was going to my parents house tomorrow. (3 states away). He looked a little scared when I told him I was taking our S.<p>He had to go back to work then, and well, not being able to let go yet, I called OW at work.<p>Ripped her up one end and down the other, told her that I hoped she could find future happiness knowing that she had contributed to the destruction of anothers life. That she had a helping hand in taking my sons father away from him. That her continuing to contact my H and let him know she was there waiting for him did him no favors and helped to destroy any last chance my M had to recover. I congradulated her on her success and made several other comments.<p>So he is going to be home any minute. Oops gotta go. will write more later

Needing,<p> I am sorry that your husband totally disrespects you like that. His actions are totally rude. I am offering you support. Please come back later and tell us what happens. We will be here to listen.<p>Indy

OMG! (gulp)<p>Needing .. are you back yet???? <p>Jo

Wow needing,<p>I am so close to where you are, I am in awe of you. How did OW respond to your conversation?<p>I swear if I find one more contact I might go the same route. <p>I hope you are OK and dont freak out later, post and let us know how you are doing. <p>Lora

needing - Y'know, how, when and if to confront WS w info is an ongoing topic...a tough one..<p>That said, I think you did a great job. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Many, myself included, are tempted to accomodate or appease..instead of defining borders and consequences..<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He told me he had lost all respect for me over this<hr></blockquote><p>please....<p>Prayers for you and your family; for your wisdom and patience..<p>Dan

HI Sweetie, I know how you feel and I am sorry I tried to rip the OW in my life up one side and down the other on the phone and it did not work... because she was so full of mean words and crap... that my H is telling her about how awful I am.. FUnny how all of the sudden I am just the worst person in the world...??? I don't get it, a few months ago.. I was his wife... I do not get it...<p>Anyway.. I know how an OW can destroy the M. It is awful.. I will be cking in on you and I care.. I am here with you all the way.<p>HONEY

Hey There..Please let us know how you are doing after you confront your H. Please check in and let us know. Thinking about you.
*T*<p>Sorry..just saw your post...and don't know the whole story but please come back and let us help..

Bless your heart, needing. We're here for you when you get back.

Dear Needing, <p>Believe it or not but I felt like you spoke your piece not just for yourself but for the rest of us who have not had the chance to do that. Why would we want to do that? duh....don't know...feels good to be free from lies? <p>At the expense of losing a mate that is already out there with more lies? You know what? I know that once it was exposed, it felt better. Painful but better. <p>I think that is where you are and tonight I will say a prayer for you. For you to have the strength to make it through this night. <p>Hugz,
L.

Needing...
Wow...I'm torn between feeling such sorrow for you and such deep admiration...I haven't sorted it out yet! You are where I will be if my formerly WW ever gives me the slightest reason...poof, I'm gone. We're well into recovery, and I've fought hard for our marriage, but I just know I've used up all my compassion and understanding. If it comes to it again...no more plan A, not even plan B....I'm just gone. And I will be sad if it happens, but I'll move on because I have things to do with my life before I'm gone. <p>I wish you well, however you choose. Be strong and be yourself and live.<p>Rusty

Yup...one months post d-day...I had heard him tell her he loved her in our house on our phone...LB'd HUGE... two months past d-day...he was still being intimate with me and seeing her...I too was done with their games...I ripped him and I ripped her...H*** had no fury like Hurricane Cali...<p>I can totally empathize with how you felt and with what you did... you are 'right.' Unfortunately, as a wise old poster, Whodat, said to me after my EXPLOSION... you can be right or you can be married... now, don't beat yourself up over what has happened... I did for days ... and my H did leave soon after for about one month he 'slept' someplace else... in the grand scheme of things what you did and what he does doesn't necessarily herald the end... just the 'end' of a certain phase ... David Carder says we have to get really angry to work through to the recovery phase ... <p>Now reality has probably set in and you are waiting for the fallout... again... don't beat yourself up... boundaries have to be set ...only you know what you can take ... I would just like to advise you to now move cautiously ... don't react or make decisions within your anger or despair ... time has a way of altering our reality ... please take that time before you make any HUGE decisions...<p>My prayers are with you...
Cali

NEEDING!<p>Please let us know how you are.<p>Jo

Wow! I have done almost exactly what you did and it was not pretty. Now is the time to ask yourself if you really want to walk. Not right at this minute, but from this minute on. Do yourself a favor and at least consider the following:<p>1) do not LB at least for the next week, even if you have to stay away from him to keep from it, 2) ask yourself every morning for that week these questions: a) do I still love the man he can be and b) can I forgive him if he gives up the OP, if the answer to both of these questions is yes at anytime during the next week, hold on for another week and continue to plan a. If the answer is never yes during that week maybe you have your answer. <p>Only you know what you want and what you can live with, but I can tell you from experience it may just be the roller coster. I have to run for now, but I will check in later to see how you are doing.

This just get worse and worse. Another call from W, said she is now scared of me, that she fears for her own personal safety. She says that I am stalking her (because I found out that she and OM met the other day), that I have threatened to push her down the stairs, that I have threatened her with a knife, that I am plotting to kill her, that I have bugged the computer (which I have admitted to doing). I told her that if she fears for her own personal safety that she needs to file a police report. This really pushes it further than I want to deal with. W even told me that if I get nasty about this then it will be over for good. She is really making it hard for me.<p>But, the final straw for me is that W finally admitted to seeing OM since DDay, but only as friends, and just talking. I don't give a rats a@@, its still a complete disrepect for my feelings. This revelation shows me that W isn't even close to start recovery and my efforts have been a waste of time. Yes I am pissed, big time right now. I do not think I can continue this, I am too good of a person. I need a few days off, maybe stay at MIL's for a few days and get myself back together. But if she does file a police report, then I am the villan and she wins. Maybe I am being forced into Plan B mode, why is she doing this to me, do the last 13 years mean nothing to her?

I'm sorry to hear about your situation [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm a WS and I'm glad to hear that you did what you did, though! If he's not serious about healing your relationship then it seems pointless to keep hurting yourself. Maybe a trial seperation would be just the kick in the seat that he needs to grow up and take responsibility for the damage he's causing.

Wow Guys,<p>I am a little overwhelmed at the response and support you have all given me. Last night was ugly in the truest sense of the word, and checking in here today has just really helped pick me up. <p>First off, the conversation with OW, she was a little more than shocked when I called. I told her that I was calling to let her know that the e-mail she sent my H had its desired purpose in ending my marriage. That I hoped she found a way to the future happiness she would have based on destroying another persons life and ripping a loving father away from his son. She tried to tell me that she was just trying to offer support to a friend going through a difficult time in his life. <p>(PULEASE... does "when we are together I truly feel that we are untouchable" and "sometimes when you look at me I get a tingle all through my body down to my toes" sound like just a friend to anybody?!?)<p>I told her my husband did not need her support and that all she had done is add to the downfall of my M. She tried to tell me that we had problems before her, I interrupted her there and said yes, we may have had problems but her continual chasing of my husband, confusing him with her manipulations to keep her hooks into him certainly was not a help to our marriage. I told her she was going to have to spend the rest of her lfe looking in the mirror at a homewrecking, self centered, selfish and hatefull woman. What she had done to me and my family was hatefull and intended with nothing but the desire to win my H from me. <p>She started to tell me that they were not "together" anymore and that nothing "like that" was going to happen again. I told her that she did'nt get it, I did not care anymore if they were sleeping together or not. Her continued cantact with him, and his continued lies to me had helped me lose all faith and hope I had for this M and that they were welcome to each other. That the man I fell in love with and married no longer existed, thanks in part to her, and that she was welcome to the shadow of a man I had once known. I also told her that I knew that my making that phone call to her was most likely the nail in the coffin of my M as my H would be upset that I did it.<p>Well there was more, but it was all said in the heat of my anger, I am very good with words when I am angry, my mind seems to work faster. But I don't remember to much more of what was said. All I know is that it was a real catharsis for me. I felt alot calmer when I was done.<p>So later when he came home I jusy went to bed. Let him take care of our son and get him ready for bed. I got up just before son went to bed and helped tuck him in.<p>We sat on the couch for a little bit saying nothing, then H a

Needing!!! Not Again!<p>Jeeeez Woman .... I'm dying here, what was said between you and H on the couch.<p>Your last post on this thread was cut off, Hon.<p>Ughhhhh!<p>Jo

ummm...OK something happend and that posted before I was done. Oh well, to finish.<p>H asked me if we had anything left to talk about. I said no, that I was done fighting for him. That if she was such a good friend that he should just go to her. He tried to again tell me that he thought her e-mails were innocent encouregment from a friend. I told him that if they were so innocent he would not have lied and would have shown them to me. He has accused me in the past of trying to be manipulative and I told him that if he could not see OW for the master manipulator that she was then not only is he not the man I thought I had married, but he was also stupid. One day she tells him that she doesn't know what she ever saw in him, the next week sends an e-mail talking about how much he has touched her life and she is thinking of him. Next week she gives him a hand written letter saying how they can't even be friends because it is to hard for her, then, just yesterday sends him a thinking of you e-mail with all this lovey dovey crap in it. She is the puppet master, and my H is to blind and stupid to see it. And I told him so.<p>We talked about some other things, things I had kept from him about my past and revealed to him only recently. <p>We, well I talked to him about how I felt when I read all of those e-mails from during the A, ones where she talked about what she wanted him to do to her, ones she had sent to him just after he left her to come home, and all the other stuff. I asked him over and over again how he thought that made me feel. I tried to slap him in the face but he blocked me. I threw a glass against the wall. <p>He asked me what I was going to do with the e-mails. I told him that I was keeping them and that if it came down to it I would make sure I had full custody of our S and that he would not be able to take him out of the country. (H is from Europe, family is there) He asked me if I thought he would ever try and take S to live in other country, I told him that I had no idea anymore, that I did not know who he was and could not trust him. That it was time for me to accept that he had made his choice to leave me and to protect myself so that I survived this. I told him that I had given him all of the power in this relationship and now he is getting pissed off because I am taking some of it back.<p>We talked about OW, I told him that I hated her more than I ever thought it was possible to hate another person. That she was a vulture circling over the death of my M. That she was poison to us. That I would go to my grave only wishing for the worst things possible to happen in her life, that she is evil and that I hope and pray that evil is done to her in kind. He was looking at me a little amazed and asked me where this came from that he never imagined I could be so angry, I pointed at him and told him that he had done this to me, that his actions and continual lies had turned me into this.<p>So, that just about sums it up. I went to bed, let him clean up the glass. He came in and asked me if I was asleep, I said no. He broke down and started to cry saying he did'nt understand how this all had happend. I told him that it was simply time to go to sleep. Told him he could sleep next to me, he laid down for a minute and just held on to me as tight as he could. Then sat back up, I told him he really needed sleep. He said he could not sleep in our room. I said OK, just sleep. So he went off.<p>Today I asked him when he would be moving out. That my first choice as always, was to do whatever we could to fix this marriage but that I now needed him to leave if that was'nt his wish as well. That I loved him more than anything in the world, but I would not continue to be hurt this way and if his choice is to leave me then I needed to start figuring out how to survive. <p>I still don't believe he will be gone before the end of Jan. Just don't know if I can stand having him around that long. He is so OH PITY ME MY LIFE IS SO HARD all the time that I am starting to find it difficult to look at him.<p>I don't think that there are to many MB principles followed here, the only thing I still want to ask of him is to do just one session with the Harleys. Other than that, my standard response to any conversation he wants to start will simply be, I love you with all of my heart. I want nothing more than to fix our M, but, until you can say to me that you are at least willing to try, I can not talk to you and do not wish to live with you because it hurts me to much and is beginning to wear me down, both physically and emotionally. I have nothing left to give.<p>Thats my story, I know super long, but its where I am right now.<p>Thank you all again for the wonderfull support you gave me. My Mom was pretty great on the phone too. My parents have already offered to pay for attny if I need one. But they have also made it very clear that if I choose to reconcile they will welcome H back with open arms. No judgments.<p>Thanks all. Yes I'm crying again.

Needing,<p>Good for you. I support your moves here. You are strong with your decisions. One thing you need to watch is your temper. I know it was the heat of the moment, but your H can use this against you in court. If you were to hit him, he might have called the police for domestic violence.<p>Good Luck<p>Dino

Hi Needing,<p>Thanks for letting us know you're OK.<p>I can't type a bunch right now, but I wanted you to know that all the hurt and anger you're feeling is valid for what you've been thru. And regardless of what the deficits (unmet needs) were that affected your marriage, your H was wrong for having an A.<p>I know you don't want a D, and you're right, the last couple days of LBs have not followed the Harley's principals. I think you and H should take a break from discussing anything to do with the marriage/relationship. And I wouldn't contact OW anymore, just stirs more trouble. <p>Needing, try and concentrate on you and your precious son. In the midst of all this he is the one that will suffer the most in the long run. He needs you now more than ever to be strong and more introspective about all of this. <p>I know how this situation raises emotionally charged feelings, but lashing out at your H will not bring him any closer to you or wanting the marriage. <p>Please don't misunderstand me. Having an A is wrong, yet it brings us back to the question "do you want to be right, or do your want to be married?"<p>Sending you Hugs and Prayers, Needing.<p>Love,
Jo