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Joined: Oct 2001
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Well, as I am writing thinking that everything is in order, W just called and gave me an ultimatum. Said that I will be moving out, period, and if after 3 months she wants to reconcile, then I can come back, what kind of crap is that? I just said that it isn't fair that I have to move out because of her indiscretions, that I am not going to be made out to be a bad person, the one who abandons the family. She gives me the 'I'm the mom line' so I said 'I'm the father'. I ask her how financially this can happen, she says I can just go live with my sister. So I tell her the only way I am going to leave is with a court order, let her do all the work since she wants to destroy the M.<p>I don't want this to end up in a nasty battle. I do not want the kids to suffer anymore than they already are. So I wonder how far I should take this? If I buckle under now, I feel like the M will be over for good. But, if I don't, I am afraid that W will make all of our lives a living hell. Maybe I do switch to Plan B, write a good Plan B letter and try and give my kids as much of me as possible. I've talked to my Dad about this and he might let me stay at his place in the country on weekends while I have the kids so we wouldn't be cramped into a tiny apartment. Any advice?<p>The only thing I can add is that my gut feeling is the A is back on, although I wonder if it really ended, that is probably the main motive for W getting me out of the way for a while. One possibility is for the two of us to sit down with the C and go over this, maybe get W to admit her real motives. If I can be convinced that me moving out is in the best interest for everyone, then I will consider it, but for now, I am not.

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lhs,<p>
Disclaimer! This is only my opinion. <p>You can sit down and talk until you're blue in the face. Doesn't matter if it's with the Pope or the Judge. All your W can think about right now are her best interests. You've tried to reason with her for months. I know you're kinda frantic right now because this is starting to feel like the end and you're fighting harder than ever for your M and family. The difference is that your W doesn't want it like you do. She isn't thinking like you. <p>I can't tell you what to do. You will get to a decision when you're ready and it will be the right decisions for you. Keep trying to focus on yourself and your kids and exercise some patience right now. You really don't have to go anywhere unless W does go to the courts and wins. If you were in her position would you do that? Standing on the outside looking in I'd say she's not in the best position based on her behavior. That should at least make her pause.<p>
lhs,
If I might make one more suggestion. Like you, I worked really hard for the first few months. I was exausted from what was happening. I took a break from it - put away the relationship books and made a commitment to get rid of the A for awhile. Take a month or so and do some entertaining reading or get a hobby. It'll all be there for you when you get back. <p>
Good luck,<p>
who

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Hi - I was looking at your other thread last night, but didn't say anything. My experience is moving out per plan B on November 21. Overall it has made my daily life somewhat better, although not completely, and my wife pretty much continues on as before. <p>I did not move out until we signed a piece of paper agreeing to the days of custody, 5 overnights out of 14 here. It was not from a lawyer, but it was witnessed.<p>Don't worry much about your "facilities", at least not initially. I have 2 bedrooms but 1 is an office because I telecommute full time. So when the kids are here, the four of us sleep on an air mattress in the other bedroom. It's actually pretty nice and I think they find it comforting, too. And they will be thrilled to see you whenever they visit. Too quiet when they're gone.<p>I'm inclined to think you should go along with moving out, simply because staying is not going to help either. Write a plan B letter. But here are the things to do first:<p>
  • You absolutely must speak with a lawyer first. Each state is different, but the rules are generally stacked in favor of the wife. My lawyer said make sure to rent in the same school district.
  • You don't take an allowance to live on, it works the other way around. The lawyer or even the Internet can tell you how much support your W is "entitled" to in your state. Set up new bank accounts, and each time you get paid, give your W the specified support amount. It may not be "enough" for her, but that's the point.
  • You must be prepared to tell your kids, and others, something about the real reasons.
<p>My wife thought that I would simply continue to pay all the bills, too, but it doesn't work that way. She also imagined she could spin the reasons for separation her own way, but a lot of people see through it. I haven't told my kids yet, but it's coming. She keeps telling them things that can't be allowed to stand. Your wife might try to tell your kids that you are responsible for the coming hardships. No, you are not. Playing along with that is good for your wife, bad for you and the kids.<p>Don't do it until you are prepared to stand up on some of these issues.<p>Good luck,<p>Tom

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Well, you can guess what I'm gonna say.<p>Tell her simply that you're not going any where. If she wants a separation, she has to do it.<p>Period.<p>Either way, this will not be over soon.<p>Step back and take a look at the big picture. You should not be jumping thru hoops for her. This is where I drew the line and I'd do it again.<p>WAT

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My gut feeling is that if you move out, expecially after her ordering you out. You will be in a very bad position as will be your children. There is no rule that says women get the house and the kids just because they are women. Many men win custody these days. STL (my H) has custody of his children. My advice is to just sit tight. Sure her temper tantrums may get bad if you stay. But a court will not order you out of the house. (unless there is physical abuse... avoid this a all costs. She may try to provoke it.) <p>So she throws some tanturms and acts mean to everyone for a while. She probably will not do it for long and she may very well stop it quickly if she wants to stay in the home with you and the kids.<p>You say that the OM is a neighbor and his wife has said that if there is anymore contact he is out the door. Well, have you thought that maybe she also knows of the continued contact and he needs a place to live. So you move out, he moves in. Now there is an image that ought to help you handle, with grace, anything she throws your way. <p>You are going to have to seek a balanced center and peace through all of this. If you are a praying man, it's time to hand it over to God and pray for his guiding hand. If not, meditate, or what ever it is you can do to get clamed down and separate yourself emotioanlly from the situation.<p>I am not trying to tell you what to do, but as you can tell I have very strong feelings about this. Yes you are the father and you have as much right as she does to live in your home and see your children every day. She has taken her love away from you. Now she is trying to take your children away. Do not be a willing participant in this.. your children will never forgive you for not standing up to her. And believe me, no matter how young they are they know exactly what is going on.

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lhs,<p>I was going to post this but I thought it might just encourage you to LB. When she said "You're the Dad and I'm the Mom" I immediately thought "Yes, and your the wife and I'm the husband - If you're going to put us in our roles then lets actually get into those roles". You know that is only going to anger her though. Just pointing it out for you. Don't use it.<p>She's not rational right now though and quite honestly neither are you. If somebody else was treating you like this would you take it? I know you love her. You're love is allowing you to do and accept things that are not OK with you. That's why you're swinging back and forth and so confused. Believe me I've been there. I like WAT's idea: "Tell her simply that you're not going any where. If she wants a separation, she has to do it."<p>Give it some time. It took me 4 or 5 months before I knew the course of action I had to take and when I took it it was what I wanted. WAT and I choose different paths but I think we both are happy with the results. You need to find what is right for you. That is going to take some time.<p>
who

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L,<p>I don't have much time, but your post caught my eye. If this has already been stated in one of the replies, I apologize.<p>One thing to keep in mind. IF your marriage ends in DV and if you try to gain custody of the children, then the simple fact that you "abandoned" them (along with the fact that you're the DAD) will work against you more than you know.<p>I say if she wants a separation, and she's the WS, SHE should leave. And quite frankly, she should leave the children with you. You don't want your kids to be confronted with meeting OM, do you? That's not fair to them OR to you.<p>Hope this helps.
Kev

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Looks like W just keeps on taking this one step further. Called again and really went off about how me staying in the home is so terribly destructive. Said she has done some research and found that our kids fit the mold of being emotionally and mentally abused because of the tension we are creating by me being home. Funny thing is that I am seeing the kids act as normal as can be given what is going on.<p>W even told me that the marriage was over 13 years ago when the woman I had the relationship with entered our lives with announcing that I had a child with her I didn't know about. Yes that is true and it has hounded us ever since. I asked W why, if the M was over then, she stuck around and had 4 kids with me and built a life together. She said she thought that was what good Catholic girls did (you know what I was going to say next, but didn't, huge LB opportunity). I refuse to play this game with her, but I do not know if I have it in me to fight this right now, I have exhausted my emotional state trying to keep myself together. Whos advice about putting this on the back burner is good, but it can't happen with W making these demands.<p>It feels like W is really forcing me to make a quick decision, a decision that will work in her favor. My Plan A deadline was for this spring, that would give me enough time to come to a rational decision and to secure some finances if it came to that. I think right now I am going to demand we attend a few counselling sessions together before anything is determined for sure. Maybe I will check into a hotel for a few days just to let things settle down a bit, but make W know I will be back.

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LHS,<p>What was the flip side of the ultimatum? If you didn&#8217;t move out she was going to do what? Lie, cheat or the infamous "I just don&#8217;t see us getting back together if you can't do that". Whatever you choose to do try not to flinch at these threats. Sounds totally manipulative and self centered. Just like you can not force her out of your home, she can not force you out either. <p>The abuse comment sounds like another veiled threat. Been there, heard (a variation) that one too. Since it sounds like you&#8217;re the primary care giver to your children right now, be sure that others see you as the primary care giver of your children. Always nice to have some character witnesses, just in case she decides to pursue that threat. If I had to guess, I would agree with you about the EMA BEING BACK ON. I kinda doubt that these abuse type comments are directly coming from WW. Good chance she spoke to a friend, OM or maybe even an attorney to get this bullet chambered up. <p>If it were me, I would tell her that you don&#8217;t see any issues with the children, but that you are concerned about their well being as much as she is. Ask to wear you might go to study up on her concerns, Where did she go to learn about this? I think this line of action shows that you are concerned and might give you an indication as to where this latest stance came from. If I was a betting man, I'd say that she will not have a straightforward answer on how to study up, just another accusation. <p>
Peace,
HI

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So much of what she's spouting is being delivered right from the script - an award winning performance. "Terribly destructive?" Yep - she's projecting everything onto you.<p>The Mothership is in control - don't doubt it for a minute. She sounds desperate and in turmoil. IMHO, the best thing you can do is just stand back and watch without interfering but also without lifting a finger to placate her. Don't bite on the threats and revisionist history. Don't be surprised if things get even MORE weird. Is she building for a crash and burn? Could be.<p>Please do not move out - not even to a hotel for a few days - it smacks of desertion and abandonment. <p>WAT

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I'll admit that she has knocked me completely off-balance. Her irrational behavior has me really scared, she is capable of doing anything right now. HiFi's comments about the other people supporting the abuse claims makes sense, a few weeks ago W started telling eveyone that I was plotting to kill her, but she never demanded me to move out then (Hmmm?) And she didn't start acting like this until I caught her and OM together, even the night before we talked and she sounded like things may work out after all.<p>I guess I need to go home tonight and be the adult, hopefully W hasn't thrown all my stuff out on the front lawn or gotten a restraining order. What has me rattled is that I don't know what she is going to do next. At least I can say that my life isn't boring.

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Well, thats it. I was just served with a restraining order. Can't go home, only get the kids every other weekend. Looks like W got her wish, hope she is happy with choices she has made.<p>No more for me, no Plan A, no Plan B, no nothing anymore. I am going to focus on myself and the kids. I have absolutely nothing to offer anymore. I'll be back from time to time. Yhank you all for your help and support. Please pray for my kids.

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I'm very sorry to hear that. What are the grounds for the order? I have to guess that she had already been in contact with an attorney for this to happen today and be served this early. You might want to give up on your marriage at this point, but it's probably a real good idea to get legal representation to fight the restraining order. I don&#8217;t really now for sure, but I have to assume that the restrain order if not challenged will set some kind of precedence down the road as to your custodial rights. <p>
HI

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lhs,<p>
I'm not much of a praying man but I'll be praying for YOU and your kids. You don't deserve this.<p>
who

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On second thought maybe we should be praying for your W. She's going to need it more than you lhs. You're strong and you'll make it!!<p>
who

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I sure hope you are not going to leave MB at this time. You really do need some support through this.<p>That's it? She makes an accussation and gets a restraining order and you give up? It's time you get angry in a very controlled manner. Use the anger to give you the energy and focus to fight this.<p>Has there ever been a police report? Have you ever been accused of spousal abuse? Have you ever abused her physcially? Be honest here. If you have not.. then go get an attorney and get the restraining order overturned. Remember that you are guilty of nothing until a court says you are.<p>If there is no evidence of abuse, then it is obvious that her accusing you are abuse and getting a restraining order is to control the situation. It is a feloney to file a false report.<p>You can get an emergency court hearing to get the restraining order turned over and your access to the home restored. Go to that court hearing and tell the judge that you love your wife above all else, you have never abused her (if that is true), and that you want to work on your marriage. Tell the judge that your wife has been having an affair with a neighbor (bring absolute proof) and that she wants you out of the house so that they can conduct their affair in peace. This is not the environment you want your kids to grow up in. Further tell the judge that your wife has been threatening you that if you do not move out she would take steps to have you removed. The charges that led to the restraining order are fabricated.<p>This is what my ex-H did.... (He was physically abusive but I'd never called the police on him so he was able to pull this off). (I do have one caveat here... and I even hate to say this. If you are physically abusive of your wife, then I would never, ever suggest that you go to court and lie. Instead I'd say see an attorney, a counselor, get in anger management classes and start fighting from the vantage point that you are doing what is necessary.<p>Make sure that he/she helps you fight for shared custody (50/50) at the minimu.<p>This is not the last word. Nor is it right for her to have an affair <p>As for you following her... You did not follow her, you dropped her off OM drove up just as you were pulling down the street. That is hardly following her.<p>I am sorry it has come to this. Unfortunately we do not act quickly enough sometimes. She got the upper hand. But this is nothing more then a legal battle. All is fair in love and war. This is both. Do you think a General and his soldiers go to war saying "oh my gosh they are threateing us? what are we to do?" Nope, the get calm, cool, collected, get their strategy in place and fight.<p>Call an attorney today, or if too late where you are tomorrow as soon as their office opens.<p>Hope this is not too harsh but it is time to get some control in your life. This is far from the end.

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No, I'm not going anywhere, I have too many friends here that understand and support me.<p>Zorweb, I aint giving up, not by a longshot, W has burned me for the last time, now I am going to fight for my kids and what is best for them. I am giving up on W and the M, the Love Bank is closed now, I'll get it ready to maybe someday open an account with someone else. W has made the final decision in all of this, I was willing to do what had to be done to make it work, not anymore.<p>W and I had filed separation papers right after DDay in order to protect each other from doing anything stupid. Thats how she managed to do the restraining order so quick. I am finding an attorney tomorrow and finding out my options.<p>I am going to stay at MIL/FIL's house for a while until I can get a place to stay. Dad has offered his place for me to stay at when I have visitation (he has a small farm in the country, the kids love it there) and has offered to pay any attorneys fees I might have.<p>I read the charges, total BS and manipulation on what I said. W is really grasping at straws on this. Everyone on both sides of the family now know what is going on and have rallied around the kids and me, W is completly on her own. I have absolutely no idea how she thinks she can do this on her own.<p>If anyone knows of a good attorney in the Denver area who supports fathers rights, I would appreciate a reply.<p>Thanks to all.

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If your in-laws (her family) are behind you, let them do the dirty work. Don't try to represent THEIR position to her, let them do it. In other words, keep your nose clean to her and whenever possible let others do the talking for you because she WILL NOT accept anything from you. You are "public enemy # 1" and any thing you say WILL be used against you. Get my drift?<p>Believe it or not, if her family is really behind you, you need to lay low. When in doubt - DO NOTHING!!! Understand???????<p>ANYTHING you do towards her is an LB. Distance yourself and let time do it's work. Understand???<p>WAT

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LHS,<p>I gotta hand it to you my friend you sure gave it your all and it was clear from the start that you truly love her. As time goes on you will look back and know that you did give it your best. I have a gut feeling though that she just might come around but I think she will have to hit rock bottom before that will happen. I urge you to continue to show her love as hard as it will be and to have a forgiving heart. It will only make you shine and I believe your children will see this and will have a new respect for there dad. <p>You might want to print out your threads here since this has been a record of your good intentions and it could help you in building your case. You know how computers are it could all be lost over night, its happend before. <p>My prayers are with you and your family, and remember to trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowlage him, and he will make your paths straight. Proverbs 3:5-6<p>
God Bless,<p>SH

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LHS,<p> Once again, I am truly sorry of the painful BS she is putting you through. I do have a couple thoughts for you this morning to consider.<p> Similar to stillhurts suggestion of printing out your threads hear. Save your threads to disk. In Internet Explorer you go to the file pull down and select the "save as" option. This will save away every graphic and line of html needed to recreate the screen you are viewing allowing you to view this info off-line by just clicking the xxx.html main title. The advantages over printing are it takes bout 1.5 seconds to save & you can duplicate the printed pages whenever desired. The reason I feel that having this info squirreled away is two fold, 1st if by some stretch of the imagination you might be able to prove your intent in court, 2nd (most likely) when your children are older 18+ and ask you why, you be able to show them step by step everything you tried to do to save your family.<p> Next is something a bit more controversial. Your WW has filed a illegal restraining order (if false) and committed a minor felony in doing so. She also has displayed some delusional opinions that you were plotting to kill her. Assuming that her accusations have no merit what so ever, you might be in a position to have her Baker-Acted. In Florida Baker-acting is an action taken by law enforcement or the court systems to have someone's mental state evaluated by force if needed. I by no means am even close to an expert on the subject, but I would guess that anyone who has paranoid delusions of their spouse plotting to kill them might qualify. The reason being is if they truly think that, then they are really struggling to differentiate friends & foes. In my book it&#8217;s certainly worth discussing with your attorney as a custody issue. <p>You've been very noble and honorable in your actions and heart throughout this struggle. Please do not look at this recent turn of events as failing. It was only a chance for you to show your character and ability to humbly overcome tremendous adversity. If there is an afterlife (as I believe), how you acted and what you felt in your heart will be part of a testament to you and your life. Better days are just around the corner.<p>
HI

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