True Confessions; well maybe ... Confessions at least ... Now What?!<p>First, a brief BACKGROUND or backdrop if you will, from a few days earlier, which I believe precipitated this most recent dialogue. <p>From my last post on last thread I was talking about our conversation which actually began as a result of her talking with her boss. My DW tells me she talks to her about everything. So I say, &#8220;and you were talking to her about us I presume. (remember my DW was telling her boss last November that she was thinking of leaving me and after D/D her boss told me that I could not make her love me & in her boss&#8217;s credit, she is the one that recommended I get the Dobson&#8217;s book &#8211; but anyway my DW & I have not discussed what her thinking was in talking to her boss last year about leaving me & my DW wonders why I&#8217;m not moving along faster in our recovery?!!!) She nods her head & is has this sad, forlorn look. I ask, did you tell her that you&#8217;re having second thoughts about if this is going to work out? She said that she has struggles, she said that she loved me, to a degree.. She said she had fun last night (when we went to party) and this morning (when we had wild sex). I&#8217;m thinking, here we go &#8211; As long as I entertain her & perform & make &#8220;her&#8221; happy, it&#8217;s OK.
She continued & said, &#8220;I know I am not meeting your needs & I don&#8217;t know if I can and I feel guilty that there is probably someone else that could.&#8221;
I then told her something I think took her by surprise. I said, well after 31 years I could understand some of the spark is lost. And I said after a year of this & there is still not that spark, maybe we should pack it or at least separate. [B/]<p>She has been sweet since &#8211; <p>[B]Here is update &#8211; confessions. Which in thinking about all this, I believe this is her way of trying to give me some assurance that she wants this to work. Again, perhaps when I suggested that if she doesn&#8217;t have a spark for me, so be it, perhaps we should split &#8211; it may have caused her fear of abandonment to kick in. <p>Yesterday morning she is again still very positive & she goes into this little confession kind of dialogue, which I believe is her version of being open & honest about some things. She begins by saying that she does like me, I believe meaning from her stated perspective at least, that she cares for me, but just can&#8217;t use those all power words, &#8220;I love you!&#8221; Although she did say those words last night in saying goodbye to our daughter, because she had not said those words to anyone in last year, since D-Day. With the D-Day confessions she stated she was not sure she really loved anyone. She said she loved me like a brother, but was sure she could love anyone is the more proper context. (As we know, this is fairly common scenario on D/Day). I should ad that she has never actually told me that she loved me. I have learned from my support group that a person with a compulsion with sex is typically very confused about their own feelings in regards to distinguishing between love & lust as example.<p>She told me that she does in fact think of having sex with me during the day. (I had on occasion asked her about this.) and she said she did not tell me because she did not want my ego to get too big. This one threw me &#8211; &#8220;didn&#8217;t want my ego to get to big?&#8221; I asked her about this last night and she said she did not mean it in that way. She said that she knew I had asked about that in order to determine if she thought about having sex during the day (which is right, BTW). I said, what does that have to do with my ego &#8211; she of course could not explain that &#8211; She said she does think about having sex, then quickly said, &#8220;with me.&#8221; And laughed. I believe she has a difficult time being completely open & honest, but is trying. <p>Yesterday morning a part of this open confession of sorts, she said that I do satisfy her sexually. She does tell me on occasion that I am good. What makes me wonder on occasion thought is that last year she seemed to really enjoy as well, and we were doing it just as much then as now; yet she was &#8220;excited&#8221; and enjoyed &#8220;the game&#8221; as she described it when she carried on with OM &#8211; we know this thrill of a &#8220;need to cheat,&#8221; don&#8217;t we. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
She continues in this open & honest & caring tone to tell me that she likes to get attention from both Men & Women! She emphasized the &#8220;both&#8221; part & she said it was because of her issues with her age & that she worries about every single wrinkle. Now, we knew the MLC was a major factor in all of this, including the A&#8217;s with the two men aged 36 & 32! Is this supposed to OFFER ME relief my anxieties about her intent here?! <p>This last point is what has me confussed as to what I NEED to do with this information. This is no surprise, as she has said similar things before, including in our joint counseling. She said this in the context like it was her explanation for her provocative dress or look and so, therefore it is validated why she does this & therefore is OK or like it is not her fault or out of her control??!![B/]<p>In case you didn&#8217;t realize, I&#8217;ll try to summarize my concern. She has now confirmed (again) that she dresses to attract attention & that this is extremely important. The fact that she said for both guys & gals, I suppose is to give me some comfort that it is not strictly for guys; sorry this does not work. Then when we factor in her history & her never ending desire for lust, & her lack of any true, outward feelings of affection for me; this to me is a dangerous receipt for disaster. Aren&#8217;t we tempting fate a little much here?!<p>I realize I may need to maybe walk a delicate tight rope here. To keep her trust so that she will continue to share her thoughts & feelings with me & at the same time try to work towards some basic understanding of the problem here. When I have brought things up before from what she has told me, she&#8217;ll reply that she hesitates tell me things, because I then "use them against her." I see it as trying to work on a common problem, she sees it as attacts on her. I am afraid now that since she has told me this, that it has cleared her conscience & she now has even more liberates to continue to dress & act in ways to attract attention &#8211; from men &#8230; oh and yes from women as well. With her passion for lust, she could definitely experiment & has expressed thoughts of being with a woman as well, so then where do we go?? <p>Last night when we were out at a store she seemed to have a certain swagger I had not noticed before. She had this way of walking & swinging her hips with her 2 inch heels & tight, hip hugger jeans & tight v-neck sweater than just touches the tops of jeans. Then we are looking at floor tiles and she bends over & squats to arrange things on the floor. Her sweater rides up of course & her pants down a bit, so there is a good 6 to 8 inches of her shapely back, hips showing &#8211; she shows no modesty at all. I am probably being over reactionary, but I could imagine she is just waiting for a guy to walk by to see how much attention she can attract.<p>This may also be a build up of her wanting us to go out to the bar scene with her show. She had mentioned that she felt I was more comfortable with her when we went out the last couple of times. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I am still not ready for that![B/]
How should I handle this? Because she has these MLC issues, is that enough for me to say, Oh, I understand, go for it?! Let&#8217;s see if we can get guys to stop & turn around to watch & not just take quick glances?! Am I to embrace this little game of creating sexual tension??<p>Thanks for your attention to all my little insecurities here!
Peace be with you!
HH[B]<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

HH,<p>Dobson here, no wait, that's YOU. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>IMO, I would imagine the provacative dress is DIRECTLY related to the MLC. She's having doubts about her self, is she pretty enough, do PEOPLE find her attractive, is she GOOD enough, etc...<p>Now the tricky part is this: IF there were no danger of A, then I'd say just buck up and be reassuring and help her through the MLC. But since there's already been a weakness shown by her to resist inappropriate attention from men, I really don't know what you should do/say. I'd hope that just out of respect for you, she'd tone it down a bit, but I guess not.<p>About the use of information....remember, she's from Venus. What she wants from you with this information is a reassuring head nod and a "MMMM HMMMM, I'm sorry you feel that way," or something like that. What you want is to FIX it, you said so yourself:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I see it as trying to work on a common problem... <hr></blockquote><p>Try to find that hidden Venusian blood in you and be reassuring, not the fix-it guy from Mars, just a little bit.<p>I wish you luck, and thanks for all of your help.
Kev

HH-<p>This may sound stupid but....have you ever tried the reverse psychology thing here? I mean, have you ever just shown her a lot of admiration for the way she dresses? Does it turn you on, even a bit? I know my WW is good looking and can turn a few heads and I struggle between the attention she gets (or could get) and the fact that I should be happy that I am married to a good looking, outgoing person that meets my need for an attractive spouse.<p>I might be stretching things here a bit but what if, on one of those occassions that you two are out together and she is really trying to flaunt it, you let go of your inhibitions and tell her how hot she looks, that you really want her, and find a place to get, well, very personal? Do you think that would take the edge off? Maybe you both would get some satisfaction. You might not be so worried about all the eyes on her and she might be satisfied with the attention she is getting (at least for a moment [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>Anyway, I didn't know if you had tried this approach yet. How would she like you to dress? Could you help meet her need for an attractive spouse by changing some of your habits (in public)? It sounds like your bedroom habits are quite acceptable.<p>HoFS

Kevco -- Thanks for checking in!
Hope you had a good holiday! Considering the predicament we're in particularily!
You noticed I mentioned that Dobson thing again! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I can't seem to stay away from it, huh. The problem is I don't always follow those princinples when I should perhaps!<p>HofFense,
Thanks for input!
My addiction experts tell me that I need to be carefu;l with the encouraging thing in that it may lead to even more enabling kind of thing. I don't deal with conflict well -- either aquiess or get into battle --
Not long after I took her back & got into the role of sexing it up when we went out -- she gave me oral sex at theather -- then at bar I was feeling her up -- this is when she suggested we go out more often & go to bar seperately and act like we not together -- when I objected --she went into idea of involving a gal with our sex -- an idea she has suggested a couple times -- she knows that another guy is definately out of the question, as she used to suggest that before D/Day. She has also commented that women know how women liked to be touched. BTW, she convinced me to take her to a strip club last year & she got the attention of one of the dancers & they were dancing together after the dancer was down from the stag. And by cooindnece (right), they end up in the bathroom together & my DW tells me later that the dancer was definately "Bi" -- yes my DW has unlimited potential for sexual gratification!<p>Yes, she does like her independence. BTW, she still always has breath mints or special high power breath gum in her purse.at all times. I truely don't hink she is fooling around right now, but I get this feeling she is ready at a moments notice or with right opportunity. I do have a better idea of her schedule than before the A's, but she in no way calls or lets me know her plans after work and the like very often. If I want to know I have to call, then it is like I'm checking up on her ---bordering the smothering thing! In terms of sexual interest I show her, she used to stop by myu office after her counseloing & we would do it in my office space -- not actually an office, with other people in another part of the office, down the hall, a quickie -10 minutes kind of thing,so she does not need a lot of time to get a quick fix if she has the opportunity! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Oh well, just another day in jungle!
Peace,
HH

Old theme reappeared with latest confessions:<p>First, understand that I have not said anything of negative fashion to my DW about these things &#8211; <p>I forgot to mention that she brought up an old theme &#8211; She said, &#8220;Perhaps it would help if I were jealous?&#8221; Now, with all these things, I did not say much as I wanted to listen & encourage her to talk. She had mentioned this before &#8211; during the A&#8217;s in fact &#8211; She did not go as far to say that she wanted me to have an A, but I guess her point was that she would like to see women pay attention to me? She has such a focus on the physical attraction thing, I don&#8217;t know if I can compete with the 30 year old set or the older, body builder types? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am 5&#8217;10&#8217; and was very athletic in my younger days &#8211; I have worked out with weights on & off in past & I play golf & walk some, but do not regularly work out, but I do have some muscle mass &#8211; weight 218. I am not going to be 35 again? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] When I think of it, she has always been critical of my weight &#8211; even shortly after we were married & I weighted 180 pounds.<p>I was home yesterday doing the painting thing. I announce girls basketball games for the local cable station (re-broadcast video; not live stuff )and have done this for about 10 years. They are giving me a special &#8220;volunteer&#8221; kind of award tonight at the game & one of the mom&#8217;s, who is attractive, but very &#8220;motherly,&#8221; stopped by to give me this invitation & my DW knows this women. She complimented me by saying I &#8220;looked good&#8221; (I&#8217;ve lost about 20 lbs.). I call my DW & report the incident & make mention if that is what she wants to hear to make her jealous? I said that this gal was smiling & she came close to touching me on the arm, but stopped short of that (My DW will sometimes touch the guy she is talking with in this manner &#8211; warm, touchy, feelie, kind of bonding kind of thing, which I don&#8217;t like to see! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ) She makes no comment, but says that a girl she works with & was at the party, was commenting that I looked good (can tell I&#8217;ve lost weight in the face) & that I seemed happy. This girl is one whose H had A last year. My DW has commented before that she thought I thought this gal is attractive. I ask my DW if I should tell this gal I think she looks good too & my DW says, &#8220;if you want me to.&#8221; -- Is this the kind of game she wants to play, how far do I take this? I definitely like to flirt on occasion, but given the recent history here I&#8217;ve kind of lost my interest &#8211; I am not sure how far she wants to take this little game?<p>One thing that occurred to me was that she may be leading up to wanting to go out to dance/bar scene. When she says that she felt I was a lot more comfortable when we were out, I believe she is trying to convince me of this &#8211; project the power of suggestion. Believe me, she can really attract the attention at the bar/dance scene &#8211; talk about sexual connotations, seductive mannerism & sexual tension! She can definitely get the juices rolling on a crowded dance floor! I know, I go home with her & get benefit of heightened sexual tension. I just don&#8217;t feel comfortable with the attention she seeks here. Call me the puritan kind of guy with lust my heart, I guess?!<p>She&#8217;ll use the line that we lead such a boring life to goat me to go out on bar/dance scene &#8211; she&#8217;s made these kinds of logic before &#8211; makes some sense, I know, but is this for us or for her? Remember, when I SUGGESTED WE DO THINGS TOGETHER this summer, she did not want to go with me to walking trial or on those long walks with our dog around this lake/park we have close to our house, (as she wore her short shorts & tank tops with spaghetti straps) -- these were times she needed &#8220;to herself,&#8221; as she explained to our counselor.<p>My support sponsor of sorts, and another lady in the group confirmed, that the spouses of the people in our group that are in some kind of recovery program are there only after they (the spouse) made an issue about it. Like I suggested before, my DW has little incentive to change &#8211; most things she says & does are designed to protect her ways & perspectives of how things should be.<p>My support group (S-anon) has a &#8220;couples&#8221; meeting this Saturday. We qualify because I&#8217;m in the program. I have mentioned these meeting before & my DW has not directly objected, cause she does not want to openly appear not to want to do &#8220;her part,&#8221; but she definitely has reservations. When I mentioned that there was a meeting this Saturday (tomorrow), she mentioned that she was thinking of calling the number her counselor gave her for a 12 step support group. This was prompted when she broke down after I caught her in a lie about her using the pre-paid calling card & she confessed her vomiting. I had given her a brochure for a women&#8217;s 12 step group on eating disorders earlier, and many there had expressed issues of SA. She had said she was going to call that number & counselor & her boss supported idea &#8211; that was before Thanksgiving &#8211; no calls yet. Regarding the couples thing, she asked what would she say? I told her she does not have to say anything, that she can just listen. Thus is when she said she was going to call number her counselor gave her for a 12 step program. I asked what it was focused on eating disorders? She said, &#8220;Yes & what my group focuses on.&#8221; ?? Who knows &#8211; I got the feeling she slipped into her make-believe world on that one &#8211; she&#8217;ll sometimes say things that she knows someone wants to hear, without any regards to validity or truth.<p>What do you think, should I encourage or insist on attending the &#8220;couples&#8221; session for S-anon?<p>Thanks so much, I appreciate everyone&#8217;s support with my insecurities here!
Peace,
HH<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>