I'm just looking for opinions on this one.<p>I am dating a very nice man. We care for one another a great deal. the thing is that there is a great difference in our income levels. I have never had a serious relationship with a man that made less money than me.<p>My aunt was telling me that my making more will probably = big problems for us in the future. I just wonder what you guys think.<p>He has a good job, but I make maybe 4x what he does. <p>What do you think?

Katie Scarlett,
What does he say about you making 4x than him ?. Is it going to be a problem for him ? And for you is it going to be a problem ?. If your EN is financial security you have to understand going to this relation it requires work (you fullfill it yourself) and if his EN is Admiration you have to be carefull of boasting your $$$. Happiness requires hard work !.<p>My wife is not working and I earn good money but if she earn as much as I earn and she want me to stay home & reverse role... I will be glad too [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , too tired of rat races in corp. world and w/ this plan A I am doing her job too.

I would be wary of a man who attached the size of his wallet to the size of ...anything else<p>I would gladly "keep" my H,if I made more than him..he makes a great wife!!<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Wounded2673 ]</p>

To be honest, so far it hasn't really been a big issue for us. My job has allowed me very different experiences than his has him.<p>He's a simple, neighborhood kind of guy. For big excitement his boss takes everyone to lunch. As congratulations for a job well done the girls from the office and I were sent on a 2 week european shopping spree. He was kind of like "you're goin where, to do what!?" <p>I keep hearing over and over from friends, family "watch out-that's gonna bite you in the a-s."<p>I just wondered what you guys thought.<p>Truthfully though, I think he's proud of me. He shows my business card to his friends and family. We met at work, so it's not like he didn't know what I did.<p>Probably best to just take it a day at a time.

I make substantially more than what my W makes and it would not bother me if she were to make more $ than I do. But we've been together for 9 years and I'm not sure if this would cause problems in a new relationship. Does your BF know that you make a lot more than him? If so, does this seem to bother him (or you)?<p>If he feels secure about himself and his job, then this shouldn't cause a problem. Might this later cause issues for you if you became more involved with him and you wanted to change jobs, go part-time, etc.?

I see this as a great opportunity to apply MB concepts and things that have been discussed on the forum.<p>Good communication and satisfying EN: Talk directly and honestly about each other's needs. You are financially secure and have planned things so that it will continue to be so. I assume that you do not flaunt your income. The question for BF would be whether or not he is threatened by your making the higher income. BF must be honest with himself first. If he is threatened by it, this would be one of those situations where the problem is within himself. You have no part in the dilemma. The problem is not yours, and you probably can't fix it anyway, so the issue very well could be one that could cause problems later on if he does not resolve his internal conflict.<p>If he is OK with the discrepency in income, then work out a budget plan that lets him be responsible for his fair share of the expenses and let him have equal say in decisions of what to do with "household" expenditures. I'm a big proponent of his money, her money , and household money. Maybe that would help him feel valued in the financial aspect of your relationship.<p>Just talk this out before hand so that you both know what the real situation is. Once you know what the facts are, then you can deal with them.<p>Estes<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Katie,<p>I just read what you posted while I was writing my previous reply. Is it possible that the deeper issue is one of differences in life-style
epectations? I suspect it would be easier to adjust "up" than to adjust "down." Finances would come in if the two of you decided that he would adjust "up" in which case you would be paying most of the bills for a more expensive lifestyle than he can afford.<p>Perhaps more critical is , does he want the level of lifestyle that you enjoy whether money is an issue or not? And if he doesn't, are you willing to adjust your lifestyle "down" to reach a level that you both are content to live with long-term?<p>Wondering,
Estes

you know the funny thing is that i'm very happy a simple lifestyle. I don't need to be wined and dined all of the time. I nice date here and there is just fine with me. He takes me on dates, etc when he has money to do so. Otherwise i'm happy to make it a Blockbuster night.<p>I have a big issue about me paying for dates. I think that that's a man's job.<p>However, I do receive extravagant gifts. I like to share them with him though. the trip was a gift. I have another business related trip coming up. I guess the most that we can do is talk about it, talk about it, talk about it. And at the end of the day he's got to figure out what his truth is. And I have to figure out mine. I find myself being angry when he doesn't have money. I wonder how good a budgeter he is.<p>We don't live together, so there are not really many household issues. He eats at my house a lot and so I insist that he make some contribution toward grocery bills. He's a vegatarian, so I cook lots of veggie meals. It's a give and take.<p>I wonder (for myself) if there will come a day when I resent his empty pockets. That's one that I have to be on the look out for, and be more and more honest with myself about all of the time.

KS, I think there will come a day when you resent empty pockets and want him to do more. Just be realistic about who he is... you just might get what you are going for.... When I married my lovely H we have been talking about .. both of us had nothing... I expected him to amount to somethng someday... and we did yrs of give and take where one would make more or less... in the last 5 yrs... I had the upper hand.. until I decided to stay home this last yr with small child and back injury... well, his new "big" job... made him change quite a bit... he was finally able to support the family.. but he didn't even see it that way... and even now in our seperation... he says he feels responsible for kids, but not at all for me... I think that says something about who he is... so I am out looking for another "big" job for me again... I have an mba and some law school, he didn't finish college, but learned computer skills, which can pay- sometimes, HE EMBARRASES me... it could be the drinking... but also what he really wants to do with himself bothers me... especially right now... ck out early on.. if the two of you have the same thoughts about the future and who does what in a marriage... wish my H and I had talked about this... I thought he would take care of me... that's what I thought a H did... financially at lesat... he doesn't even get it... although he knows plenty of men who do... and he can be a chauvinist...<p>Well, I really don't know, guess it depends on the guy and the relationship and what you want from it... friendship... or would you expect him to financially support you if say you had more children with him and even married him...<p>REMEMBER the old adage.. don't date someone who you wouldn't marry... our feelings tend to take over... and from your relationship with the party boy... I bet you are pretty responsible... and it gets old being the responsible one... I know all about it... and I am sure you are beginning to.. if you don't already... if you have a child... I have 2 kids, and when I hurt my back with a little one... I thought my H should take care of me for a while.. well, he evidently has been quite resentful and thinks with my education and experience he should not have to worry about providing for me... I think he really wants me to take care of him... and I would guess your new beau might think it would be a good benefit to have your finANCIAL contributions... I mean really, what guy wouldn't like a woman who can bring home the bacon...?<p>But, there are lots of men out there... who believe and want to provide for their women... / wives... I bet you are ready to move to marriage after that long affair... and you might want to think about exactly what kind of H you want... and financial is a very big need of mine in a H. I really get sad when I drive through the neighborhoods where I know so many women stay at home and have their H's providing for them.. my neighborhood included... it just doesn't seem fair... to me anyway... Have you ever felt that way.. if not, maybe that is not what you are looking for... maybe the friendship and companionship is enough and other too of course... do the Emotional needs questionairre and that will help you know what you want... maybe let your boyfriend do one if you two are serious.<p>BTW, what line of work are you in - I'd like one of those vacations.. could use it about now...! <p>GOod luck, HONEY

Honey,
Come over to the dark side! I'm in investment banking in NYC. It's hell with benefits [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Actually it's not that bad. You can't be the wall flower type though. If kicking a-s and taking names is your cup of tea, then you could do what I do.<p>Growing up I had to make sure that I was taken care of. And so this much time later I still take care of things. Secretly I long for a man who says "dont' worry honey, i'll talk care of everything." That's what MM did. He ordered for me at resturants, I never had to even look at a bill. I never knew what ANYTHING cost when we were together. HE felt like that was his job.<p>It was AWESOME! The down side being, he always felt like he was owed something because he took care of all of the bills.<p>When I retire I plan on buying a nice 4-bedroom house in Maryland, new car and taking it easy. All of my debt is paid and i'll only have to worry about utilities. My son's college is paid for, etc.<p>I think my secret fantasy was that SG would move south with me and pay my utilities. I could sit back, look pretty and take yoga classes.<p>Ok, where can I find that EN questionaire. I think I need to take one of those. I really dont know if SG is the "all take care of everything" type. Were I to marry, I think he is the marrying type though.<p>the more I know about marriage though, the more I think i'll go for common law. If we're still together after 7 years then i'll be Mrs. SG. Until then all bets are off [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Scarlett,<p>Money issues can be a real deal breaker in marriage.<p>When my ex-h was in medical school/residency I made much more then he did. He loved being taken care of. But he felt that I had an upper hand and hated it. Was always rubbing it in my face.<p>My current H, STL, says that he’d just quit and be a stay at home dad. I made about 20% more then him when we met. Since his new position he makes about 10% more then me. <p>The way I look at it is that it is a partnership. All of the $$ goes into one pot. Bills are paid from that pot and then we decide what to do with the rest. That is how we do it. <p>My ex-h and I did the separate accounts bit. It was not my idea. But we stupidly never talked about it before we got married. So the week after the wedding I said, ok let’s go open a joint account. His response was that he was.. “No! No woman as ever going to get his money.” So we went kept everything separate.<p>I now that many people advise this today. But in a marriage, as time goes on, each person brings in different things at different times. It gets very hard to know who to split things. The separate accounts were one of the many things that led us to separate lives. It was very easy to do what ever we wanted to.. no accountability at all. <p>And if you have separate accounts, what happens when one spouse is sick and cannot work, or is laid off? Does the spouse with a continuing income pay only their bills? Or both parties’ bills? Many time not. Does the working spouse throw the other out? It happens. It happens because there are no clear guidelines as to what the rules are. With joint finances, it more clearly follows the legal reality of marriage. Please note that I am not talking about joining sole and separate assets. But those earned by the couple during marriage.<p>There is very good book you might want to check out … “Building the House of Marriage”. It is something of a blueprint of how a marriage should be structured.<p>If you are getting serious about SG these are things you need to discuss with him at length before it goes too much further. You may find that he is looking for a sugar momma. Or he might be thinking that you are going to put all of your income into a joint account and let him make all the decisions. Or that he thinks you are going to quit your job and stay barefoot and prego in the kitchen (somehow I don’t think he’s that detached from reality.. ).<p>Or you may find out that he is a great guy to who money for all the right reasons. A great guy who can have a wife who makes more and not feel threatened. A great guy who will work with you in coming up with your own finance style? You need to talk to him about this.<p>Of course if you go the living together and common law route there is another who group of problems

KT--I have a hard time with this one and I'd bet 100 shares of pre-recession tech stock, that the EN questionaire would prove. You are the dominant, type A, ENTJ (I'm just guessing on that one!!!) with a penchant for control and order. Your BF sounds like the laid back, take it easy type. <p>Just doing a little basic career math 101, I'll take a stab that BF's making around $40k and your on the $160k scale or higher. That's a huge difference, especially when it involves those types of different personalities. <p>Your obvious concern for his often empty pocketbook is a red flag. The fact that your X was the take charge type, I would be curious to see your EN's. I'd fathom a guess that Financial Support from your potentianl spouse isn't gaining any points on his Nasdaq.<p>Also, be Beary careful of the type who claim that "they don't care". That's crap. We're guys!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Seriously, though, it is one thing to have spouses income different by $20k or so, but 4 times is a clash.<p>Don't let the emotional cab stop in New Jersey when you really want it to go to Upper Manhattan!! If he's the one, MONEY WON"T BE AN ISSUE. <p>BTW, please enjoy the investment humor--I mean it in good natured fun! I would, however, be curious to see how you both do on your EN questionaire.<p>G

OK, Katie, here it is. We'll all be waiting for the outcome on this one, SG too. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Emotional Needs Questionnaire<p>Estes

Thanks all.<p>guidobalata - [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>More than anything i'm just standing still on this one. He says that it's not a big deal. But then constantly talks about how much money he's going to make in the future. I have worked hard not to fall into "I make more, let me pay" kind of thinging because it makes me resentful. At the same time I bend over backwards to do cheap but fun kind of activities. <p>I honestly dont' know what will come of all of this. I'll bullish about it. <p>He sort of walks around with this detatched "no big deal" sort of air about us. He knows that my place is on the market and that I could move out of town at any time. At the same time i'm watching a growing affection develop between the 2 of us.<p>It's hard. We dance the intimacy dance. Coming together and coming apart in subtle ways over and over.<p>It's interesting what someones said about the %. I never thought about it is terms of how much more I make than him. Truth be told, NY is a really really expensive city. I live in Manhattan, so the costs are astronomical. By the time I pay bills, school and put money in savings he and I probably have about the same amount on disposable income. (I'm guessing) <p>The big difference is that I get bonuses, dividends, etc. So I get bursts of cash (in additional to regular income). When I get extra money I like to make it fun for "us." But there are times that I think he finds that immasculating.<p>We keep talking about it. And working through one day at a time. I fear that once he takes me off of the "she could be gone at any time" shelf, a TON of issues are going to rear their ugly head.

Ok, i've got to bring this thread back from the dead for a minute.<p>I just invited him to London for a long weekend. I found flight and accomodations that are reasonably priced. If he can't go i'm going with my girlfriends.<p>Is this an ego bruise if I go without him? He says it's not big deal, but i'm worried. Something about the sound of his voice wasn't quite right.<p>And, if I pay for it is that emmasculating?<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

Katie ~ I think the only one who can determine if it's emasculating is your BF.<p>Sounds like financial support is one of your most important ENs. <p>This to me would seem like a definite red flag to consider. <p>If his making less or budgeting differently is making you upset, then it is a legitimate issue for you....and something to consider.<p>The whole point here, as you know, is to make sure we meet our spouses top needs. If this guy, as much as you like him, isn't meeting a top need...wouldn't you think that would be leaving a huge gaping hole in your future relationship?<p>Knowing what you know about affairs and how they start ... wouldn't you want to think twice about a permanent relationship with someone you might be vulnerable to cheating on?<p>I'm not saying you should dump him...but it seems to me that if you are looking for marriage material, he should be someone that meets your most important needs. Sounds like financial support is a big deal! Maybe you should be looking among investment bankers [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I dunno, I'm terrible with money! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</p>

BR,
I understand that this man has really no way of meeting my need for financial security. I just don't think that it's going to happen. I'm a serious commitment-phobe NO QUESTION!<p>Right now he meets my emotional need for companionship and affection. We've had a million talks about it. Neither one of us is looking to marry.<p>In the mean time i'm not sure how to work out the money issue if he's just Mr. Right Now and not Mr. Right.