I have cut and pasted some posted comments from yesterday...and anyone shed some light on my situation...this is a tough one...<p>Thanks

Cut and Paste part...
I had my second one on one session with Steve today and he really helped me see more clearly the path I will be taking towards recovery. My wife is involved in an affair, but is also agreed to counseling. I guess I figured that she was staying in counseling because somewhere inside her she does want to prepair our marriage...but I also found out today the out of town OM has planned a visit next weekend and the two are planning something...Is this normal at this stage or is she faking her way through counseling...we have a 3 1/2 year old...that could be what is keeping her in...but it seems their relationship is building not contracting right now...HELP! I am committed and focused, but I don't like all the the underminded stuff that is going on around me...
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Focused,
I see you are a new member. Hopefully you can read the material on this sight and learn more about how these horrible affairs start and how help your marriage survive one. <p>As for your question about why your wife is willing to go to counseling. Who can tell? Maybe she feels guilty, maybe she is just "ticking the box". But you should quit wasting time worrying why and just be glad she will go, and try to use it as an opportunity to help your marriage. <p>Why don't you see if you can get her to fill out the EN questionnaire and see if you can figure out what need she had that was unmet within your marriage that she got from OM? She may see that you are interested in meeting her needs - she may have assumed you were not.<p>Good luck<p>Laylla <p>
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I don't think she is "faking her way thru counseling", more seriously confused. Don't give up...confusion reigns at this point.
Do consider chatting with Steve abt how to handle this development.<p>Kathi <p>
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Steve makes all the sense in the world, and when I complete my sessions with him, I have renewed hope...then my wife returns home, refuses to even speak to me and acts as if I have ruined her whole existance. I suppose this is normal behavior as she continues to lie and try's to justify her affair, but it hurts non the less. I guess I should be grateful she is still participating in the sessions. It just doesn't seem to be improving our communciation at all..as a matter of fact it seems to be getting worse each day. Is this the normal progression? I am focused, have faith, and will not quit...but i am very scared. <p>Dealing with an affair is the most intense pain i have every felt...can anyone lend some advise on the above situation (s)? I need some encouragement to end my day...
Thanks

Focused --<p>Of course you're scared and hurting. Dealing with this A is certainly "the most intense pain I have ever felt" (it certainly is for me). <p>Nothing--not one thing--about any of this is easy! Nothing feels or is normal or right or familiar. It's just a terrible place to be. I often don't know how any of us get through the day. I'll say that again: nothing is normal now in our lives. <p>But--and here's your requested encouragement-- "this too shall pass." Tomorrow, when you get up, you will be another day closer to resolution and peace and happiness. Can you see it? Of course not! Can you trust it? Absolutely! I don't see it for me yet but I know that it's coming. It's like driving down a familiar road and knowing, even though you can't see it yet, that a certain landmark is just a couple of miles ahead. <p>In the meantime, we hurt and muddle through and half-function and try--oh how we try--to take one step and one hour at a time, knowing that we're not doing a very good job at anything but doing it anyhow. I agree with Kathi: "confusion reigns" and, until things stabilize, that will continue to control the dynamics of the relationship. Man, is this hard...<p>I'm encouraged that she's still in counseling with you; that's a good sign. While at this point it won't necessarily improve communication (may even make it more difficult, as you're finding out), I do think that that is often the normal progression of things. Somebody once said that "things need to be exactly where they are right now" and if we can accept that philosophy, we can take a major step toward peace of mind. <p>Hang in and post again for more "encouragement to end your day." We're thinking about you...<p>Ammon

That's exactly what I needed today...Thanks!!

Dear Focused, <p>I went back and read your post in EN on December 29. My goodness, you could have put my 33-year-old son's name in your place and the players in the story would be essentially the same, length of M, child's age, etc.<p>Yes, the pain is the most intense you have ever felt. Of course you are scared. The very foundation of your world is in jeopardy. I do not want to discourage you. Statistics show that the odds are in your favor to save your M, but it is going to be a rough, long, painful experience. Stay focused and determined and things will get better for you. <p>As Laylla said, don't focus on why W is going to counseling. Who's to say. My DIL did all these things too. It will be a long time before WW will be thinking about you or her marriage except in a negative way. Right now the most important thing in the world to her is how to get time to spend with OM. I don't mean to depress you, but that is the mindset of a person in the beginning stages of an affair. They are obsessed with the OP and nothing else matters.<p>Therefore, she will lie to you anytime, any place, anywhere if it helps her reach her objective. My DIL even lied to her priest. Statistics show that in time the A WILL fall apart, and the WS will have to reorganize her life. Your challenge is to take steps to preserve your love for your W inspite of this emotional assault (Plan B, if necessary) and maintain a home that she will feel safe to come back to (Plan A) if that is what she eventually decides to do.<p>Some things to keep in mind: 1) You cannot make her to do anything that she does not want to do. She will set the timetable for the A and you have to go along for the ride. 2) She is no longer the woman you married. Do not trust her. She will lie and deceive you to reach her goals. MB says that WS behavior is equivalent to that of an addict. They stop at nothing. 3) Protect yourself and your rights to your child with legal representation. See a family law attorney ASAP to find out the laws in your state about separation and child custody - even if this is clearly NOT what you want. This is NOT a LB. This is self-defense. Do not tell your WW. Protect yourself. I cannot stress this too strongly. Also, it is possible to get a restraining order against OM to keep him away from your child. Again, not a love buster. Why would you allow your child to be exposed to a liar and an immoral man?<p>When this is all said and done, you will be OK. My son says "battered, but not broken." You will have learned to take responsibility for your part in a relationship, you will have acted graciously toward a woman who betrayed your most intimate trust, and you will have shown your child how a real man fights to preserve and protect his family. I wish you patience, faith, courage, focus and a restored marriage. <p>Estes<p>[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Thanks for the advice. I still wonder if deep down she does love me and that's why she stay in counseling...baffles me.<p>Oh well..onward.

It is very possible that W still loves you and will want to reconcile once the affair is over. That is why it is so important for you to stay focused in your love for her, remain hopeful, and apply Plan A. It's really hard to be gracious when you are hurting, but M are reparied all the time. W going to counseling is a hopeful sign. Your being baffled is normal because WS behavior defies common reason and respectful behavior. Your W is baffled, too, but the difference is that her confusion is of her own making.<p>Take care,
Estes

Did your DIL come to her around??

I think what I meant to say was...did she come around??<p>My wife's affair is getting out of control...probably normal

I avoided that issue (unless you asked) because I did not want to discourage you. Please keep in mind that every case is different and that statistics say most M survive A. <p>Having said that, I suspect S and DIL's M will not survive. No she has not come around. In MB terms, she is so lost in the fog that she can't see her hand before her face. <p>However, there are underlying issues that DIL brought into the relationship that my S had no control over (sexual abuse, suicide in family, abandonment by father, disfunctional mother). She is an intelligent, charming, very disturbed young woman. Hopefully your W does not have these other issues to deal with and only has to work on the the effects of the actual A.<p>Without going into the whole story but to show you hopefully that your WW is not like my DIL, 11 months ago, DIL initiated an A, filed for divorce, and made arrangements to move out-of-state BEFORE S had any idea something serious was wrong. Prior to moving, she did go to C with priest although she had already secretly filed for D and had an apartment rented in another state. In fact she told S about the D on the way to church. Then she lied to the priest. Said God was calling her to move (no mention of A)!!! This is what I was referring to earlier about WS doing and saying anything to get what they want. She moved, d-day a month later by accident. She and S have both continued IC (MC and Christian C), and off and on together when he's there or she is in S's town. S and DIL lived in different states until Dec. 16 when S moved there. Three days ago DIL asked S to move out. She was "with" OM as recently as Dec. 13 as S was packing to move to be with her. And they are still going to C. DIL's actions are speaking for themselves and sadly, after 11 months they aren't saying she wants her M.<p>Here is where you have a BIG advantage and lots of reason to hope. Your W is nearby so you can Plan A more effectively. You and she can go to counseling regularly (together and/or individually), and she can't hide from reality as well as DIL in another state. WW has not cut ties to friends, home, hometown and totally moved to a new life effectively shutting your out. IMO your W knows what she is doing is wrong. MB says most WS wish BS was the one to be meeting their EN instead of OP. Is your W religious? If she is, that's another reason to be optimistic.<p>At this stage in you W's A, it's not very productive to try to figure out why W does what she does. Be heartened by her willingness to go to C. Support her in that. And be prepared to commit to several months of her indecision. Let her see that you understand what EN are important to her, are willing to meet them, and are open to invite her back into the M as soon as she gives up OM. <p>I admire your determination to preserve your M. I'll be following your story. <p>Best wishes,
Estes

I took another night of pounding by my W. She now seems somewhat comfortable admitting she is with the OM. Makes me sick. She verbally abused me for a while until she got tired as I did not fire back. Telling me over and over that the marriage was over and how it was my fault etc...I told her over and over how much I loved her...I am so determined, but I will have to admit after nights like this...It is hard to hold any hope.
She is threatening to stop the counseling...is that a real threat or was she just mad because I refused to fight back tonight? If I sound confused...I am.

I am considering separation while this affair is in full gear...It may be my only chance to get her back eventually...any insight??

Here are some thoughts:<p>According to MB, separation - as in plan B - is not a tactic to get WS back but rather an action taken to keep BS from getting so disgusted, discouraged, bitter, etc. that they lose all love for WS. IMO your W is being so disrespectful to you and M that you seem to quickly be withdrawing love units. Is this a correct interpretation? Have you had about all you can take?<p>Sometimes separation does serve as a wake-up call to WS causing them to consider what the A is costing them. That's good.<p>Now the hard part, how will you deal with separation/Plan B and keep in close contact with your child? You will have to think this through.
Several things: If Plan B, who will help you pick up and drop off your child, since you will be in absolutely NO contact with WS? If you leave the family home and your child stays with W, how will this effect eventual custody issues? Are you prepared financially to begin child support payments which you will want to do to maintain your position as a committed dad. <p>Before separating, I urge you in the strongest terms possible to talk to a family law attorney. For you protection, don't let on to W that you are considerating separation until you have done your legal homework.<p>IMO, if your WS is flaunting her A and OM, it is wise to consider Plan B before you give up completely. Just be really careful how you plan for the needs of your child. Is it possible to pressure her to move out and leave you child with you?<p>Estes

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas...<p>I am exhausted and figure as long as the affair is in full gear, nothing is going to change regardless of my self improvements. It is hell here.<p>I would prefer that she was the one that moves out, but my guess is, she won't do it.<p>I am out of ideas and trying to do what is best. I am still focused, and want her back, but it seems to be getting worse being under the same roof.

I support you in how you feel and in whatever action you decide to take to protect yourself emotionally. I understand 100% how you are feeling. redhat says, "Even the ocean has a bottom." Just check with lawyer first. And remember, it's far from over yet. Things still can work out - in a while. <p>My son will move into his own place next week. DIL still sees OM regularly. S will ask his lawyer tomorrow to file counter D petition and seek physical custody of his little boy. DIL's love bank account is majorly overdrawn and about to be bankrupt. <p>Take care,
Estes

Thank you...I will keep you posted.

Update...it appears that now that i am negotiating with my WS on a separation she feel that the pressure is off to just carry on her affair...I am scrared it will be too serious and I will never have a chance at Plan A...I have to take the chance though. I wish i could get to the OM and talk some sense into him. I know that will not accomplish much. <p>I don't want to lose her, but right now she is so distant, it's as if I don't even know her and she acts as if I am not important in her life at all..very upsetting and sad.<p>We do have a counseling session today with SH...it will be interesting how he handles this turn of events....stay tuned.

Focused, you're walking the tightrope man. It hurts and it's hard but there's little you can do. The hardest thing for me has been to realize that there is nothing I can do about my W's desicions. I can work on me, I can make me a better person for me. She'll see this or not, all I can do is lay the groundwork. It's hard but hang in there!!<p>I separated for a month or so and I think if you can stay together it's much better (not emotionally, that's very tough). A separation is generally a method to increase contact with OP and decrease interfereance. <p>WAT put out a list of "rules" for people who just found out that helped me immensely. I read it every day for a long time. I'm sorry that I can't link you to it but I believe it's in the noteworthy posts section. <p>This is hard man but hang in there. Do what yu can do for you and hang on for the worst ride of your life. I wish you all the best.

The roller coast ride continues. After a good joint session with SH yesterday, I felt at the very least we were going to continue with the counseling, and separate with some short term goals to relating to us and our son. <p>This morning she hit me with...SH is full of it and I am not interested in going on with counseling...she has some outside influences other than OM that don't seem to be helping. I know she making her own choices, but she seems to have completely different opionions once she's around these so called friends.<p>The counseling is my lifeline, any suggestions how to get her back on track or do I just have to ride this out???

Any insight here??

My WS seems almost comfortable in the affair now..at least from the standpoint of telling me she will be with him this weekend and not around...is this normal? What about confronting the OM? What are the goods and bads of that??