I don't know if I need advice or just a pat on the butt to let me know I'm doing OK. I've only posted a few times; so I'll give a quick run down of our events. D-Day was Dec. 17th. I found out and called the OM who has been a friend of the family for about 9 years. His W is 6 mos. pregnant and OM and my W have worked together for a very long time. At the time I told him if he called my W again, I would call his W. He called, and so did I. As soon as the OMW found out, the war was on. The OMW threatened to take him for everything and the OM told my W they sould both try to fix their marriages. The only reason my W is still here is 'cuz the OM told her to. At the time, I didn't know I was doing the wrong thing by interfering with the A; but I found MB soon afterward.<p>My W has told me she lost her feelings for me over the past few years and just doesn't love me anymore. We have been counseling with Steve and getting my W to do the EN questionaire has been like pulling teeth. She has done it, but the needs she has from me are far from the ones the OM was fulfilling. We are only three weeks away from total seperation and as far as I can tell, there has been no contact. I know relationship talk is not to be done in plan A; but my W and I have not talked (held a conversation-#1 EN) in a long time. Today, I had had enough of the strong silent type and as non-threatening as I could, I told her I was dealing the pain of the A, but the fact she would not talk to me about what she is feeling was killing me. She looked at me and said " Well, since we're being honset, my feeling for the OM have not changed and I don't know if they will. I'm still here aren't I?" Now normally I would have been upset and started LBing all over the place, but; instead I said "I know I can't change your feelings. They are yours and you are free to decide as you wish. While you are working this out in your mind, I want you to know you are safe here. I will support whatever decision you feel you need to make. I love you and our family and I will stand beside you while you go through this." That was the end of it. Now she hasn't cried a tear and today her eyes swelled up and she looked like she was about to lose it.<p>Now I know we are only three weeks into seperation. I had hoped the "Average" about three weeks would apply to us; but, she also told me she has felt this way about the OM for about a year and they just admitted it to each other in December. Since I essentially ended the A, I know she is wondering "waht if?" and she will probably want to hold on for as long as she can. As much as it hurt to hear her say those words, to me it was a GIANT step forward in that she is beginning to trust her deepest feelings with me again. I didn't LB and I didn't offer her any solutions; just an ear.<p>Did I do OK? I think I did. We have a LONG road to recovery and she feels the OM was her soulmate, so we may go through separation for a long time. But, some of the lights are coming back on. I'm just hoping the OM doesn't reappear. My W knows that with the OMW being pregnant, the OM will be financially devestated if he returns to the A. Once the bambino arrives it may be a different story. I'm kinda thinking my W may be waiting it out too. Meanwhile, Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.....

Sounds like you did great with the sympathetic listening. sounds like you are much in the same boat as I am with a wife who felt like she found her soulmate. She is telling you she doesn't love you because she is only capable of loving one man, unlike guys who can switch back and forth. the best thing to do is not be judgemental, leave her with the impression of you being warm and compassionate, gentle & kind, and she will begin to feel like you are able to meet her ENs. I would bet that the OM will have a tremendos amount of guilt with his pregnant wife and that the EA will not last long. Be there for your wife when it ends, and that will make it much easier for her to come back rather than moving on on her own.

You did beautifully [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I'm trying to be patient through all of this; but, some questions, one actually really, has come to mind. I know each couple is different. It appears that all contact with the OM has stopped and my W has read most of SAA and it really looks like she wants to try to rebuild our M. So since her feelings haven't changed about the OM, is that normal? Once she goes through the anxiety of seperation will my Love Bank account be reopened while she still has these strong feelings for the OM? Or must we wait until they begin to fade? If we must wait, how long? We're at three weeks now, a month, six weeks, months? I'm actually not trying to rush, I just don't want to get to a point where I'm trying to deposit love units that are being wasted. I know I need to continue plan A so the changes I have made in myself become more permanent; but I guess I'm wondering when she will be ready to throw something back over the fence. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Definitely don't consider them wasted. It's been 5 months for me and i haven't seen a return on my investment, not sure if she even wants to save the marriage. you have to be in it for the long haul whatever that may be. I informally set another 6 months for me but how do you really ever know. Let her actions be your guide and listen to your heart.

The A has not died a 'natural death'. You killed it and so for now you look like the bad guy. If your W wants to make the M work then that is just what she is going to have to do, work at her M. <p>You need to do your part by understanding your needs and her needs and not being a doormat but reasonably meet those needs. <p>Remember that those in the fog like to ride the rollercoaster of emotions. Don't go along with it. Show love, care and concern but do not allow her to blame you for things you did or did not do. Respond when she speaks with reason. But if she is babbling and you can't speak logically with her, step back. Discontinue the conversation. Politely excuse yourself until she is in a coherent state of mind. Do not participate in the babble. <p>Be kind and considerate to her and loving. Learn about the basic concepts here and apply POJA. <p>If you can schedule some time with either Steve, Jennifer or a MC it would be beneficial. <p>JMHO,
L.

UPDATE!!!<p>I really need some moral support here. Since our talk the other day my wife has avoided me like the plague.<p>We have always had a problem communicating and she told me early on in this that I use Disresprectful Judgements and I twist her words around when we talk about a problem to make it look like she agrees with me. I never saw it that way, but it is her perspective and I must acknowledge it. Since our crisis has begun she has told me I have had no LB's. But, she will not talk to me at all. I mean, even about the weather. I do the talking and she just gives one word answers and nods her head or shakes it for no. When shes talking with the kids she's terse; but talks to them none the less. However; when she is on the phone with her mom, her friends or even a salesman; she is very warm and friendly.<p>I know she is really hurting right now and misses the OM, and is very reluctant to show her pain to me; but I'm feel like I'm dying here. I'm doing a good Plan A, I know I have changed and I am very capable of meeting her EN's when she is ready to let me. This lifesstyle is just starting to take it's toll on us.<p>Last night at dinner my 7 y/o D said she had a dream that Jesus was in her room and she hugged Him. I broke out crying at the dinner table and had to excuse myself. I have been praying for help and guidance and I know we're on His clock; but my ego is really taking a bashing here. How long does this go on? Will there ever be a point she can at least be my friend again? I am confident there has been no contact with the OM, but I know she is missing him something terrible and she's acting like it too! I'm being well behaved and no LB's and no talk of the A and very little Relationship talk. Anything beyond next week is off limits. I have to schedule my vacation for the year because we pick by seniority and when I asked her about it; she really didn't want to discuss it. I just made plans like we do every year and I hope I got the dates right. Was that a Fog Horn I just heard? How long will this last?

IMO your wife is blaming you for taking her one and only love away from her. Yu can guarantee that she is very pissed about it but I think its a good sign that she is not taking it out on you verbally. she probably realizes that would be childish and the wrong thing to do given the hurt she has already given you. I would continue to be patient and no LB, if she know that you are capable of being non-judemental, validating her feelings and being committed to the kids she may come around. Listen to me, that's what I've been doing and my wife still hasn't come around despite the PA being over for 6 weeks and OM broke it off, I never intervened. Take solace in that we can both wait this mess out together. Have a beer on me.

Foghorn!?!?! Good one. Ok now you need some support so here goes....<p>Your W is being very disrespectful to you and there is nothing you can do about it. So don't. <p>Concentrate on your children. Lavish love on them. Don't ignore your W but if she is not talking with you then be friendly but not overly so. When you want to talk or vent, do it here. Talk to your kids. <p>Hope you don't have to resort to talking to the wall like I did but in my case that wall talked back!!! You see H has a communication problem also. I always wanted to blame it as a male thing but I guess it does cross genders and we venusians can be just as ugly playing the blame game.<p>Take care and vent here!!<p>L.

More of a vent than anything. We had a sesion with Steve on Thursday and my W seems willing to work on the assignment Steve gave us.<p>She is still so cold. We were finally able to talk some more last night and we both agreed we have kept our negative emotions to ourselves for so many years that we have errected barriers to each other and had false impressions of how the other was feeling. I have had two A's in our relationship, one was quiet and undetected and the other was found out; but I lied and used the "just friends" story. The first A was about 4 years ago and we have had no contact. The other was a little over a year ago and the OW was a nut and has pursed me for the past year. I have changed all my numbers and have no desire to have contact with her. My W seemed to believe me but always had her doubts. I told her early on in this crisis; that her suspicions were in fact correct. That was the night she took her wedding bands off. I know we are putting each other through hell and the road out is a long one. We have both agreed that if the M ends or we rebuild it it will be a difficult task regardless. I have choosen to rebuild and she is "still here" which tells me she wants to try to rebuild. She has been visiting this site and I have told her me screen name and I know she is reading what I post. She spends a lot of time reading the Divorced/Divorcing Forum and she tells that is still an option for her. None the less we are working on being more open and honest and I am still doing a good plan A. She tells me she is still worried that I may have another A, a very valid fear for her I'm sure. Now that she has had one also, we have agreed how "easy" it is to cross the line when needs are not getting met at home. Of course, two wrongs don't make a right, but now we have both "been there" and can see both sides of the coin.<p>It feels like we are making progress, at least we are talking about our thoughts and concerns and we are doing the things necessary to make the changes to rebuild ourselves to be great spouses for each other. It still hurts to look in her eyes and see her missing the OM and not feeling "love" for me. She told me last night that she wishes the feelings for the OM would go away; but they haven't so far. I know she is going through emotional hell. We have caused each other a lot of pain and it needs to be worked out. I think talking about it openly and honestly with other is a great help and we are starting to rebuild a foundation to regain some trust with each other.<p>This is so hard. I feel like we're doing OK one minute and the next I feel so desperate. I keep wanting to ask "Are you better yet?" And she knows I'm waiting for that, and she has told me she's looking for "those feelings" for me again. I love her so much and I see her trying so hard and nothing is coming. I know it takes time. With all of our conversation lately, she has been tossing love units into my account with a vengance and I can do nothing to act on them because she is still so confused. This feels like progress; but it is so weird. Your words of encouragement are appreciated and of course guidance is also appreciated.

My W crossed the line alomost a year ago and kept it a secret for about 4 or 5 months. She had told me she was not happy in March and I thought we were working on things - I found this site and plan a'd my butt off and then in July she told me she finally realized she wasn't happy because she was ni "in-love" with me, however, she still cared about me and loved me.<p>Then I just throw out the question - "is there somone else?" and got a Y. It floored me. Never in a million years would I have thought it.<p>Couldn't eat or sleep for weeks.<p>She has the same attributes of being cold and distant. Based on what I have read here, I can tell when she has had contact with OM (she is happier and in a better mood) and I can tell when they are having issues or there has been no contact (cold, distant, etc.). I also get the one word answers and am treated nasty.<p>It's MB textbook (or in this case website) case. I have read the same thing on many other posts.<p>And the one thing that sucks more than anything is that you and I cannot do a darn thing to change what is happening. If we want our M to work, we have to wait it out.<p>It's not fair, but it is reality.<p>DD

Bumpin' this up!<p>I really need some help here.<p>First of all, thank you to all who have taken the time to reply to my posts. Your (redhat) guidance has put me (us, I think) in the right direction.<p>We had a GREAT night together last night. We actually we hanging out on the couch watch women's figure skating and I was showing my W some affection and said "I want to kiss you some more." She said "Why?" and we both broke out laughing. That's the first "laugh" we have had together since Dec. 1st when this all started. We hung out in the hot tub for a little while and just talked. There is NO and I mean NO reciprocal affection on my wifes part. She still feels no love for me and has no desire to even try to express affection toward me. Although it's hard to take, I'm OK with that, since she is being honest about her feelings. I am a cop and I'm on night shift this week. I took a late start just so I could hang out with her for a while. After the tub, I got ready and went to work. At the end of the night; we really seemed to connect and a warm friendship level; but we were talking and we both seemed to enjoy each other's company.<p>I got home this AM, climbed into bed for a 2 hour nap and got up and we went to church. Today, she is like a bear with a sore butt. That friendship that I saw last night is nowhere to be found and she is back to one word answers to me again today. It was about 1 month ago today, (DUH! I just figured my problem out) that I found out about the A and began to kill it (I called the OMW one month ago last night, DUH!). Well I guess I figured out why she's in a bad mood today. I'll finish so if there's something I've done you folks can point it out. As far as I know, (I'm pretty good at finding things) there has been no contact since 12/19/01. We have been on the emotional roller coaster ride of a life time since then and counseling with Steve. Things have actually been getting better, communications, friendship, W seems to be enjoying time together etc since then. She was still telling me as of this week that she still has feelings for the OM and doesn't know if they will go away. But we're talking again and to me that's progress. I've been meeting her EN's consistantly and so she tells me no LB's. I don't think I have either, but I know I've come close. I have felt the only one interested in saving this M since Dec. 1st. (For those who don't know she told me she didn't know how she felt about me, us, anymore on that date. D-Day was actually 12/11/01 and I confirmed it on 12/15/01)<p>I know we are just getting started into this and it takes tremendous amounts of time to rebuild and work through all these emotions and as you read above I also confirmed her suspicions of me having 2 A's during our M. So I know we are both hurting and she will have good days and bad days. It's just hard having two or three great days of being warm friendly and communicating back and forth and feeling like were making progress and then I wake up with the bear. I really love her and it's killing me watch her go through this pain.<p>Well, I guess I kinda talked myself through my own problem, but it's just my view. Anyone have any input. I would appreciate it. Can anyone tell me how long the the back and forth moods go after the A is over? Thanks for your ear!

I don't want to start a new thread; but I'm not getting much reply here. I'm circling the drain and I really need some input.<p>My insecurities are becoming a problem and I'm trying to real myself in; but I'm afraid I'm not doing a good job.<p>As you can see from the thread above we have had a fairly good week; but I am starting to lose it here and I'm afraid I'm pushing my W too quickly for results. It has taken us almost 10 years to get to where she really has nothing to say to me other than straight issue talk. Kids, bills, house etc. It's gonna take a while to make some repairs; but my W's lack a interest is starting to play with my head.<p>I know I was the WS on 2 occasion's, the last being 13 months ago. Even then, when she suspected I was having an A, she did not withdraw from me and quit talking to me. Now she is the WS and she is so withdrawn. I am emotionally crushed; I know, what comes around goes around, but; I really need someone to talk to. She is so quiet and cold. She tells me she wants to work on the M; but she has no desire to show her affection for me; says she has none or very little. Reluctant to have conversation, " got used to not talking to you."<p>This morning she went out to breakfast with her girlfriend. The girlfriend knew about the A and was a courier of sorts and gave my W some greeting cards the OM wanted given to my W before a trip a month ago. I know the breakfast was no big deal, but she told me after the fact, rather than before. It stirred so many bad feelings. I cannot and do not desire to limit my W's contact with her female friends; but I have a real hard time trusting this friend.<p>I know plan A is allowing me to evolve back into the man my W married and it IS proving to me that I can be a worthy H. But, I am dying inside when she has NO desire to acknowledge my efforts or show me any of her feelings. We seem to have good days and bad days. I have been spending alot of time lurking here and reading all the post's regarding WS activity is starting to make me wonder if reading here is fueling my fire and maybe I should read less. I don't know, I'm getting cold and lonely and I just don't know what to think anymore. I'm plan A, Plan A, Plan A, but I'm getting ready to go on autopilot. I'm so scared that she is not gonna make her way back.

Hi Badger,<p>Ok what have you been doing MB wise? Let us know if you have read the book his needs/her needs? Is your W willing to take the EN questionnaire? <p>Plan A is good but it works if both parties participate. Otherwise it does create a lot of work for the BS. <p>You need to focus on making you the more attractive person. She can laugh with you. Good thing. She is moody. Well it could be withdrawal or PMS. <p>What should you do? For her maybe nothing at this point but for you take care of yourself and your family. Right now you may be the only one with a clear head. You have to think clearly for the 2 of you. So make wise use of your time. <p>You need to vent here, then do so. READ READ READ up on the MB info here. Another good book is Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobson. <p>That's enough for tonight I know you need to get some rest. <p>Take Care,
L.

It sounds to me like your wife may have a long recovery process ahead of her. I only say this to put a perspective on everything, remember, she is dealing with your 2 affairs, her emotional and physical attachment to the other man. I had an emotional and phyiscal affair at the beginning of my marriage. For me it took at least 3-4 years, before I wanted to be with my spouse again in a relationship. Even when I tried with my spouse I did not do a very good job. My spouse had his own affair this summer. That was when I found this web site. Information from this site and counseling has had a very positive for our marriage. You are right your wife is still there, and look at the positives. This road may not be easy, but if you love your wife, it will be worth it.<p>Shadow

Thank you for your repies!<p>Orchid - I have read SAA, HNHN, Love must be Tough and Boundries. Nothing has seemed to work real well. That is until today. We have had good days and bad days and we have seemed to be making progress. Our biggest step came today after I read A Husband's post "Anatomy of my Affair". That one post reminded me that not only is my W dealing with the pain of her A, but she is also dealing with the revalation of mine to her. Although I have dealt with the pain and guilt of them a long time ago; I just "confirmed" her beliefs about a month ago. After reading A Husbands post I realized just exactly what she is going thtough and for every emotion I am having, she has that and more. Since reading his post, we have talked (It was wonderful, she seemed relieved that I opened my eyes) and we have prayed. I have faith that God is revealing the answers to us in His time and giving us the strength to live through all of this. I felt such a deep love for my W today that words cannot explain. But today for the first time in a years, I looked into hers eyes and felt her love for me. It seems weird; but we both realized less than an hour ago that we have ripped the very souls form our bodies and hurt each other beyond words and we seem to be finding our way through.<p>If you will all excuse me, I need to go hold my wife for a while. I'll post more later. It is so amazing how one thing (an internet post of all things) can open a door that has been closed for so long.