Need more advice. I still think W & OM are having issues. She's been very depressed lately. Other night she told me she wants to go thru with a full separation. She had been going to her mom's for a couple of days a week until before the holidays but she says she needs more time and space. Yeah right.<p>Do I put up a "fight"?. I love her so much, but she says nothing has changed for her (still not in love anymore, etc.) This is killing/hurting me so much. She knows I won't leave the house and I think the kids should stay here. I think she plans to get something close and share time with the kids. They know nothing yet (9, 7, 4).<p>I see my kids everyday - how can I go to sharing them a few days a week. How can she keep doing this.<p>Help<p>Thanks! DD
Married 12 years/know each other for 20
3 kids (9, 7, 3)
DDAY - 7/01
She's been w/ OM snce 1/01

Yes fight, but fight by plan A'ing your butt off.<p>If you seperate paln A more, she will come around. Schedule a session with Harley's for more advice.

No fight, just let her carry the responsibility of what she is basically threatening. Separations take effort. Do not enable her in any way. She wants the separation, let her do it. <p>You continue to be a good father. Concentrate on making yourself a better person and dad. There are lessons for her to learn but you are not the right teacher. At least not for now. Sometimes love means holding back at bit. <p>L.

Morning DD,<p>My situation, like many others here, is similiar to yours. My wife is beginning to come around now. The om has left my wife. He finally realized he was the cause of all of her pain and stepped out. He never really meant to commit to her. He thought he did once, but was lying to himself and her. He admitted all of this to me. When he ended it he did it abruptly and hurt my wife pretty bad. That was a difficult situation for me I gotta tell you. She's getting over him now and we are doing well. All of this just happened in the past 2 weeks. We are getting closer every day and I see a great future for us. This plan of the Harley's really does work. Just don't give up.<p>My wife wanted a separation at first as well. We even had divorce papers drawn up at one point. The truth of the matter was that she didn't want to leave the om. Separation is only a means to continue the afair. There is no other reason for your wife to want one. The longer you can keep her around and plan a-ing the harder it will be for her to separate. Sooner or later one of them will decide the affair is not worth the pain it is causing. If you allow her to separate she will find comfort from the om. She will not realize this and blame you for her pain. React in a good plan a fashion when this happens and be there for her when her A crashes. It sounds like it may be already.<p>I don't know if you know the other man or not or if you've confronted him but if you can, I would. If he knew how badly you want to save your marriage and family and how hard you're willing to fight for your wife he may begin to see out of the fog. He may realize that its in everyone's best interest if he just steps out like my wife's om did. Affairs are just too complicated once they're out in the open. That's why they die within 6 months when discovered I think.<p>If you trully want to save your marriage, follow the plan of the Harley's, plan A like crazy, don't let her separate if you can stop her, put a little preasure on the om if you can and tell him you can best provide for her in every way. I suggest using everything at your disposal to keep her from separating-I believe that separating is the first step toward divorce, even if she tells you (or in my case our former marriage counselor) that a separation would be best for the marriage for a little while. Separation is never best for a marriage. What a stupid statement.<p>Let her know how important she is to you. Tell her you know she can't change the past but that neither can you. Neither hers or yours but that the present and the future are not yet decided. That there is no magical answer or proof that you could give her to make her future happy but that you're willing to do anything to make it possible.<p>Plan A for as long as possible. As long as you can bear it. She is probably still in the affair. When it ends she will be more willing to make things right with you. You'll know if the affair is over by the way she treats you. You will not need any proof. It will drive you crazy if you try to "catch" her. Just keep plan a-ing. If you love her enough and show her that you do and listen to her well enough she'll see the light. Don't let her get away. She'll disappear in the fog.<p>Good luck

All - thanks for the responses. I have been plan A'ing my butt off. The problem is that she says she knows how much I love her by what I have done and how I have shown it over the last 9 months but she says nothing has changed. She actually told our MC that the flowers I send and the letters bother her. I asked her about this but she can't explain it more than that.<p>What do I do when the A crashes and burns (as I pray it will everyday). She has been very down lately so it is close to it or has already happened. She has barely spoken to me over the last few days. We have had no intimacy or hugging or kissing for months. I did manage to kiss her on New Years. What do I do? How do I act to be there for her? What if she still wants a separation? She never talks about OM or what is going on - I just try to read between the lines and pick up things based on what I have read on this site. That is why I think something is up. Based on her behavior lately.<p>We see the MC tomorrow night and I am sure she is going to bring it up. Friends have told me that for the sake of the kids, even though I do not want to leave the house, if it comes to separation, that maybe I should let her stay in the house and I should leave so the kids can have an easier time (they know nothing yet) - they also say that will keep the OM away if that was her plan (assuming the A has not died).<p>Note: I do not know the OM and have never met him - nor do I want to.<p>Please let me know what you think.<p>DD

Hi DD,<p>The flowers and letters bother her because they make her feel pressured to act gratefully toward you, and she doesn't what to feel obligated to you in any way. Sounds weird, doesn't it, that your being nice to her upsets her.<p>DD, let me ask you this. Would your kids be better off in their own home with a parent who is depressed and distracted and whose mind is focused outside the family or with a parent who is clear-minded and focused on the kids and their welfare? Who can focus better on the kids' needs day-to-day right now, you or W? Why would it be better for the sake of the kids for you to go rather than her?<p>I agree with those who say if she wants a break from your M, let her do the separating. Hang in there as long as you can. Be sure you talk to a lawyer before you do anything big. He/She can help you avoid mistakes that could hurt you later on.<p>Good luck,
Estes<p>Oh, yes, how would your moving out keep the OM away? Seems to me that with you gone, the door's wide open for him to be around your kids.<p>[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Estes - the reason I say the kids would be better is because they would be able to stay in their own home. If we were to separate, she would not just leave them here - she does love them as much as I do and she would want to spend time with them so they would be shuffled between two places. <p>Also, if I left the house and she stayed here, I do not think she would have OM here. I have made it clear (as clear as one can) that I do not want my kids anywhere near him. This is why I think that she would willingly leave to get her own place so when the kids are not there....<p>Moreover, I would do this for my kids. If I had to I would also prepare a document to be notorized that stated I was not abandoning the M or the kids and that I was leaving so they could remain in the house, etc. I would make her sign it.<p>Others say don't separate...this is why I am asking for advice.<p>DD

just a bump top see if I can get some more input.<p>Thanks!
DD

Hi dad,<p>You don't have a guarantee though about your W not allowing the OM near your kids. Right? So you make these life altering changes and then she goes back on her word? Then what? <p>Think best and worst case secenario. Then come up with a plan. Right now is she swinging the pendelum? Waffling? Riding the fence?<p>L.

Orchid - it depends. She tells me nothing has changed. Her feelings are the same. Oh- I had said there were problems the last few weeks between W & OM - well, there were and now I think they have resolved them. She lied to me about where she was going the other night. Found out she was with him.<p>I think she only wants this separation so she can get her own place and see him whenever she wants. I'm beginning to think that I just stay in my house and let her go do whatever the hell she wants. I am so tired of crying and being upset.<p>I love her more than anything but look at what I get in return. It's been months and I just don't understand this. This MC says I am stuck in "why is this happening to me?" and I need to move beyond that. I just don't know how. I cannot imagine my life without her. We had so many plans.<p>I cannot see how our kids are going to get thru this. I have read so much about how separation and god forbid divorce affects kids. <p>It's amazing, one person's supposed unhappiness and selfishness affects so many lives.<p>Honesty and trust were always the foundation of our relationship and now she just lies to me like it's nothing.<p>Here's the best part - the OM has a girlfriend that wants him - so W is after a guy that cannot tell the girlfriend to go away - but yet W and OM profess their love for each other.<p>I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.<p>Any advice is welcome!!!<p>DD

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

DD;<p>I feel your pain. I am on the same roller coaster you are on and it seems like nothing works. Look at my "Confusion Central" post. <p>I stepped in and ended my wife's A. I know the OM and his W and told him if he talked to my W again I would call his W. He did, and so did I. I later found out that "killing" the A, makes me the bad guy. Go figure. It's been almost a month since they have had contact and even though my W's feelings for me have not changed, "No Love" she is beginning to "wish" her feelings for the OM would go away. I had an A a little over a year ago and my W did the same thing, she killed it. She actually did me a favor and I realize that now; but not then. Killing the A is a tough call. You are definetly the enemy then. So if your gonna let it run it's course; you need to make a plan for you and your life. Your WS needs to see that she will have some very difficult choices to make to get to the OM. You can make it a very difficult road without LB's. If she is making the choices. There still needs to be some boundaries and you have to protect yourself and you kids.<p>Now my W is just coming out of an A. Appears to be an EA; but she is deeply attached. She tells me she no longer feels love for me, but she cares about me and she can see how much pain she has caused me and the kids. In the beginning of me finding out about my wife's A, she wanted a seperation without explaination. This was so she could explore her feelings for the OM without the guilt of looking at and still loving me. I have not been here long enough to give you any advice, what I'm relating I learned here; and this forum and MB has helped me put alot of this into perspective. I have had to do a lot of stuff that just didn't feel right for a married couple; but you gotta realize; she has already emotionally divorced you. Someone told me here that since I was the one who wanted to work it out and willing to rebiuld the marriage, I should be the one to stay in the house with the kids and Plan A. Your WS will not want to make the tough choices; because she REALLY doesn't know what she wants at this point. She is getting her needs met with the OM and some are being met by you. Do you know which ones? If she won't do the EN, listen to her, she will tell you or show you. Then Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. But don't become a doormat when it comes to your kids. I read "Love must be Tough" and sometimes you have to make a stand for your love. Maybe she needs that. If you need to go explore your feelings for the OM, you are free to do so, but I'm staying here with the kids while Mommy figures out what she needs. Check with an attorney in your state regarding your legal position BEFORE you do anything. You need to send the message to your kids that "Daddies are NOT desposable." And to your wife too. Yeah it's a LB. But in a calm, loving tone, you can express your concern for your family to your WS and show her your desire to stand for what is left of your M.<p>If you decide to dig in and make your marriage work, you have a long road ahead. It will be long if you decide to D as well. So take care of and improve yourself and follow the MB principles. Your kids need a stable environment and a parent that has their best interests at heart. If you read my posts you can see I'm feeling much the same thing your are. It's hard and it's painful to watch the one you love go through this and not be able to help them. Someday she will "wake up" and realize what she is doing. Who knows what she will see then; but if you have given her an emotional safe haven where she can get back to; you chances to rebuild will be good. My W and I are only on this road six weeks and I'm already seeing some positive changes in her behavior. I still have no guarantee's; but I know I am giving her my best, now and forever and if she chooses to move so be it. I'll hurt and I'll greive; but I'll be able to look at my kids for the rest of their lives and tell them that I love them and I did everything I could do make it work. Someday they will understand.

Hello dad,<p>How are you doing? What are you thinking about your situation? <p>I really like what badger203 wrote about being a dad:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Check with an attorney in your state regarding your legal position BEFORE you do anything. You need to send the message to your kids that "Daddies are NOT desposable." <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'll hurt and I'll greive; but I'll be able to look at my kids for the rest of their lives and tell them that I love them and I did everything I could do make it work. Someday they will understand. <hr></blockquote><p>
You may not always be your WW's husband (I hope that's not true.), but you will always be your childrens' dad. How you behave now will cement their respect for you for the rest of their lives. They are probably feeling very insecure with their mother behavior and anxious about what is going to become of them. They need your reassurance that you will never abandon them. How will they react knowing that their mother is not focused on them and their dad has moved away?<p>Are you talking with them about what is happening? Sometimes kids imagine things that are worse than they really are, and they keep these fears inside of them. By talking with them, you can help them verbalize their fears and you can reassure them that you and your W will always love them. <p>My son said exactly what badger203 said, that when his little boy is older and can understand, he wants to be able to look his son in the eyes and say that he did everything he could to preserve their family for him.<p>You have read the current information about how irreplaceable fathers are for the emotional development of their children? Maybe while your W is deciding what she is going to do, your job (aside from being open to recovery if she is willing) is to be a source of stability for your children.<p>You say:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think she only wants this separation so she can get her own place and see him whenever she wants. I'm beginning to think that I just stay in my house and let her go do whatever the hell she wants. I am so tired of crying and being upset. <hr></blockquote><p>IMHO, this makes sense. Let her know you love her and want your M, and that you are open to talk things over once OM is out of her life. Keep your home stable for those of you who are committed to the family, you and the kids.<p>Have you considered Plan B?<p>Take care,
Estes

dd,<p>Do not leave the house. If she wants a separation, let her leave, even if it means taking the kids out of their home some of the time. Let's face it, if you don't work this out and wind up getting divorced, your kids will spend time split between two homes anyway. This will give your W a glimpse of what that will be like before it's too late, and it may shake her up a bit.<p>the "other" sad dad

You are all great! I appreciate the long responses. My kids know nothing yet. I assume they "sense" things are not right, but we are still all living in the same house and do things together as a family. My S is involved with a lot of sports so we go to a lot of games. The kids are 9,7, and 4.<p>Tonight she told me she is going to start looking for an apartment. I told her I don't know what she wants me to say. I said, "You know how I feel about you (I Lover her) and I want to work on the M". I believe that she thinks she is in love with this guy. Who knows, maybe she is. And maybe I'll never get her back. <p>I cannot believe she is going to go thru with this. Two of her siblings know and her Mom. None of them approve. Her mom told her she would never accept him and has tried everything she can to make W see the light - obviously to no avail.<p>The only reason I started to think about leaving myself was because of the kids and trying not to disrupt their lives too much, but you all make good points about W not thinking straight. I know she loves them - I would never doubt that, but you may be right about risking leaving them alone with her.<p>Hell, I don't want to leave anyway. She decides she is unhappy and not in love, and the rest of us have to suffer over it. It's just not fair. I want to see my kids everyday. I want to continue to put them in bed at night.<p>How could you know somoeone for 20 years (married for 12 - we're HS sweethearts) and have this happen? My advice - don't ever get "comfortable" in your M. If I knew years ago what I know now about fulfilling emotional needs, etc.; I don't think I would be in this situation.<p>I know things happen for a reason, but I also know God is not this cruel for this to be going on for so long. It is almost a year since she told me she wasn't happy - didn't find out until 4 months after that that there was an A.<p>Trying to keep my head high. Any other advice? Misery loves company ya' know.<p>Thanks!
DD

Do NOT leave - it may determine the custody battle later. Even with a letter signed by her stating that you are not abandoning your children.<p>Do not leave the family home. That's really the only advice I have to offer. Please see an attorney - before you do anything - if you plan to remain part of your children's lives.<p>Jan

Seeking some more help please...W told me she is looking at an apartment tomorrow. I am still trying to decide if I should tell her she can stay and I'll go for the kid's sake. I have re-read this thread and hear all you that say I shouldn't leave, but I just keep thinking about them being shuffled back and forth between two places.<p>If she doesn't get apt (which I think is a waste of money), I can stay with a relative for almost nothing. The kids stay in their own environment. I doubt OM would come to this home as I don't think W would flaunt it to the neighbors. The only issue is me getting to spend time with the kids. BIG issue.<p>On the other hand, if I stay, we have to spend hundreds every month on her apt, she gets to be with the OM whenever the kids are not with her and the kids get shuffled from place to place every few days.<p>What do I do?<p>HELP!<p>DD