When my W (WS) and I first met we didn&#8217;t particularly like each other. For a lot of different reasons, including the fact that she worked for me at the time, we didn&#8217;t get along all that well. Well, something happened and we actually became friends, (good friends) which progressed to a relationship, which ended up in marriage. OK there&#8217;s a lot that happened there but I am trying to keep this short. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>One of the things we have always been is best friends. When we went thru our first separation she said she had a really hard time because she wanted to talk to her best friend about what she was going through but couldn&#8217;t &#8216;cause that was me.<p>We still acknowledge the friendship as being very important to us. In fact she has told me and our MC that is one big thing that she really fears about losing in our relationship--that is, losing the friendship that we have.<p>A big part of that friendship was being able to talk about anything and everything. Throughout the day we would e-mail etc and talk on the phone and, of course, evening discussions and dinnertime talks. <p>Now that we have separated again that has virtually ended. She said before leaving that she needed time and space and that is what I am giving her. I am not initiating any contact. I have left that up to her. (We did decide that we at least needed one day per week of contact, however. Dinner tomorrow nite will be our first since she moved out. We have had some very brief conversations and e-mails but no relationship stuff.)<p>Anyway, in her last two e-mails (yesterday and today) she noted she missed talking and the casual banter we used to maintain. I miss it, too but have tried to stick with a plan of very limited contact only initiated by her. <p>Do you think that is OK? <p>During our first separation we talked every day, e-mailed, and she would always call to say good nite. Now, it&#8217;s very limited and hard on me to deal with, but the last separation didn&#8217;t get us to where we needed to be so I am assuming this one needs to be different and she needs the time and space she asked for.<p>This is a bit confusing and hard for me because I do miss her so and the friendly casual contact that we have always had&#8230;<p>OK, I know I am rambling&#8230; <p>Any thoughts.<p>Thanks <p>E

Sounds like you are trying to do Plan A and Plan B at the same time.<p>I suggest you do one or the other - not both.<p>What are your reasons for not going to Plan B since she has separated again? Because of the strong friendship bond you have, Plan B could be just what is needed because it'll remove that EN and force her to seek it elsewhere, where it won't be found.<p>WAT

My WH and I also met at work and we were friends before we got together. He was seeing someone and so was I. His relationship didn't work out because she had moved 9 hours away and mine didn't work out because the guy cheated on me.<p> We were friends for 2 years before we went on our first "date". We actually thought we were meeting a group of friends but no one showed and so we were alone. I remember the torment I went through over whether to become involved with him or not. He was my best friend and I didn't want to lose that if things didn't work out.<p> The next year we were married, He was still my best friend. In fact even with all the turmoil since d-day, he still is my best friend, so I understand where you're coming from.<p> I also miss that part of us, but I know the marriage can't be healed if he is allowed to be my friend and carry on as if we aren't married. What I have done is put the friendship factor on hold in my mind. I have allowed someone else to be the next best thing and I have allowed this board to become my venting place. <p> I hope some day to have my best friend back as my husband. Only time will tell. I wish the best for you in this same situation. Follow your heart [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Dave:<p>Our MC suggested the one nite of contact. I have a lot of faith in her (C).<p>Plus, I don't know that I am ready to got to plan B... The way it is now it "feels" right for me.<p>I have not discounted a move to plan B as a possibility in the future if needed.<p>Like I said, right now this feels right.<p>Thanks<p>E

Elad - I understand where you're coming from - I was there once as well. But now count me among the Plan B'ers who think they waited too long in Plan A.<p>Let's step back and look at it from a distance.<p>You've done a good Plan A. Your W recognizes the improvements you've made. You are a new and improved Elad. You are providing the ENs that she will let you provide. What else can you accomplish in Plan A?<p>She's still under the influence of the Mothership. She's sitting on the fence. She has separated from you AGAIN. She has little, if any, motivation to change things.<p>How long can you do this? How soon until you start slipping backwards because you can't help LB'ing? What in the world does your MC think will come of this stalemate? (pun intended)<p>You have the perfect set up for Plan B. Please consider it to prevent losing all the Plan A gains you've made.<p>WAT

Dave--<p>Thanks for the input.<p>I will consider it. I have a IC session tomorrow nite and I will discuss with C then. <p>I know it is hard to explain, but like I said, right now--today--this feels liek the right thing to do.<p>Who knows what tomorrow brings.<p>Thanks again.<p>E

Elad I totally understand where you are... Plan A or Plan B... and I know I was one of the ones who suggested the limited contact...when she initiated it...<p>Remember that she needs to miss you... I would keep the 'planned' times to a minimum... more like once or twice a month... let her call you to 'plan' the times... don't plan in advance... <p>Hugz... <p>Cali

just some random thoughts elad, contemplate them as you will [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am curious why someone who is your best friend would not want to be married to you, this makes me wonder if<p>A. You are really best friends.<p>B. That indeed you are best friends, but cannot be intimate best friends (sorta like best friends with your brother/sister)...this would be a fitting issue.<p>I think true in-love lovers are best friends, I don't think being a "best" friends necessarily means you fit as intimate partners.<p>I know people regularly speak here about how their spouse is their best friend, but they are not telling the truth. They say it cause it helps the denial they live in, and is just another one of the many faces of dependentcy (not saying this applies to you by the way). I know they are not telling the truth because of the information (assuming true of course) they share about the relationship. It seems often people just label their spouse as a best friend, even though it is a non-nurturing, and often hurtful relationship. Living with someone does not make them your best friend, it may make them your only friend if you are isolated and unhappy, but that is not quite the same thing.<p>re your "strategy" I think you pretty much got it right, the ball really is in her court, and you need to let her go, to see if she flies back to you. Why do you think she is your best friend? What is unique or special that you could not have with another womaan? Perhaps it is your nature to be best friends with any woman you like alot? What is the difference between friend/good friend, and "best" friend.....in many ways a best friend is a marriage (just without sex), marriage itself is nothing more than a legal contract, used by best friends who are also lovers and want children. Friendship is something I have though a lot about, people use the word so easily, even to defining the most superficial, causal relationships as friendships. Some people seem to have several, if not dozens of "best" friends.... IMO one barely has enough emotional resources to be best friends with a spouse, have family connections, and at most one or two other special friends....anyone else, no matter how you slice it is just an aquaintance. A married person with lots of "friends" simply does not have a marriage, is just cohabitating, sharing expenses, and safe sex on demand. To be best friends first and formost someone has to "know" you, They have to see through the mask we all wear for the world, either cause we let them see (be vulnerable) or cause we can't stop em from seeing through us....and we either become good friends, or we push them away cause we feel unsafe/uncomfortable with someone who "knows" us that well.<p>If I had to say what made sense emotionally, psychologically....I would say our spouse should occupy the best friend slot (for both obviously), and that it is real, not just a label, a desire, or wishful thinking, and definitely not a dependentcy of any kind. That is not true very often from what I can see, which is why I think most marriages are accomodations of one kind or another. And I think everyone benefits greatly by a "2nd" marriage, that being a same gender best friend you also share your life with. This is also difficult to find, as many discover after years of emotional vesting in a friendship, their so-called best friend really was using them for their own emotional needs (usually revealed by some crisis, or need, or the realization you have always been doing the "work"). The case of an opposite gender "best" friend doesn't make any sense, because if you have one, you should be married to them, but I guess it is theoretically possible, if there was no um.....feeling of sexual attraction, and that special intimacy between a man and woman who are oneflesh....sometimes a sibling might fill such a role. But whether sibling or not, the "bonding" stops (on it's own) before it reaches the physical level, and is just somehow platonic. I do think all our relationships enrich us, and I would not want, nor expect myself to be a spouses only source of emotional connections, but it would be difficult to accept a close opposite gender friend for my spouse.<p>You only gave a small blurb elad, and clearly could be (and must be) more to your "friendship", but the tone and what you posted sounded more like buddies, being "best" friends, is part that, and is part talking about anything, but it is more too, and maybe that is what she is really assessing. I do think it is possible, (and indeed common) to have a fun, rewarding, friendship with someone, one you value, and don't want to lose, one of respect and caring too, but does meet the standards of fit required to be intimate life partners. I think that is what your wife is struggling with. She truly likes you, and does not want to hurt you at all, and you may be the best friend she has right now, but she is not certain you are "THE" best friend....Are you sure? It is really really awful to marry a good friend, and find out you made a terrible mistake, and are never really going to be in-love with them. You don't want to hurt them, and you don't want to lose the friendship, but as we all know, taking a friendship to the loving level is a risk, you usually cannot go back. But the worse thing anyone can do is marry, or stay married, cause you like someone, and just cannot bear hurting them...... it makes for a lot of sadness for both parties eventually, if not for a lifetime. This is also why some (probably not many) people who divorce, end up much better friends than they did lovers, removing the intimacy and sex takes off the pressure, and they fit just fine as friends (an ex-spouses can be a very special kind of freindship). But what happens more often is anger and hurt, and having little or no interest in each other, which makes me wonder how good a friends they really were in the first place.<p>Stay the course elad, but I have one suggestion to make. IMO you should make it absolutely clear to your wife it is ok if she chooses not to be married to her, and that you would still be her friend. That yes you would be understandably unhappy for awhile, but you would be ok, and bear her no ill-will. That is the only way you (or anyone) can enable your spouse to freely choose you, far too often a spouse will stay cause they cannot bear hurting you, or want to make it up to you....that is not an intimate choice, that is a sacrificial choice, don't encourage a sacrificial choice, unless you don't mind being settled for, but not chosen.

TD-- You wrote: "I also miss that part of us, but I know the marriage can't be healed if he is allowed to be my friend and carry on as if we aren't married." <p>It's sad to miss that, isn't it? Hard to draw the line, too, right? <p>Cali-- As always, thanks for your support. I have totally decided that she should "plan" the contact. I have not made any plans, calls or e-mails. Again. right now that "feels right" for me.<p>SNL---whew...as usual, quite a response. I need to digest it but I will say that you are correct in that I only scraped the surface of our friendship. It wasn't just the talking it was much, much more and something that we have both acknowledged many times over the 12 years of our relationship. I do have a same-gender best friend, too and it truly is some of the same things...but different/more/better with my W. I am not sure if I explain that well but I think I understand it.<p>You realize of course, that to take the last course of action you suggest is quite a leap. That is, to say that no matter what happens i will always be your friend. I think that actually would be the case, but I am not sure...and of course that removes the barrier of concern she may have about losing a husband AND a friend all in one fell swoop.<p>But I also recognize that none of us wants to be "settled" for...or at least none of us should be.<p>Our M was so much more...and I hope we can get back to there. I do know that whatever happens it won't be quick and that she needs the time and distance right now to consider how all of this fits. I am trying to give it to her, and like Cali said in a previous response to one of my posts--that may be the most loving thing I can do right now. <p>Perhaps in the future the most loving thing I can do would be to say: "Do as you choose, and whatever your choice I will remain your friend."<p>I'm not sure I can do that now. I think many here would understand that. <p>Thanks again all<p>E