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Joined: Oct 2001
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Well, things seem to be slipping between W and me. Ever since the restraining order was filed, WS and I have been talking mostly about finances and nothing else, definently no relationship stuff. At first W was very remorseful about what she has done, but now it seems that her attitude is changing.<p>In a nutshell, I told W that I was having my attorney review the separation papers to make sure I was properly protected. I signed the seperation papers shortly after DDay without representing myself, not thinking that it would get like this. W has told me that she wouldn't fight the restraining order at all, but today said that if I question the seperation agreement and try to modify it, she will fight the restraining order at all costs. FYI- Colorado is a no-fault divorce state so the fact that WS had an A doesn't mean anything to the courts.<p>I told her that all I wanted was for things to be equitable for everyone, that we both take responsibility for what is going on. Financially we can't afford to live seperated and I see no reason why she can't shoulder her part of the financial obligations. I am even willing to adjust my work schedule, take the kids on week nights and watch them while she works. I am not trying to be mean to her or get back at her, I just see no reason why I have to work 2 jobs to make ends meet when she is at least 50% responsible for us being apart. If we reconcile, then the separation papers mean nothing, but right now I need to worry about us moving to the D since it is a possibility.<p>Well, that 'responsibility for what is going on" comment really set her off, big time. All of a sudden she is telling me how she will fight me to the end to keep the current aggreement. Her big comment was "If you fight this, it will mean the end of our M and it won't be my fault" Hello? No, I didn't LB during the conversation, just remained calm and finally told her that I needed to end the conversation because we weren't being constructive anymore. Then she calls me back and completely changes the plans we had made for me to take the kids this weekend.<p>If this escalates anymore, I may have to switch to Plan B. Any advice on what I might do right now? I really don't want this to get nasty because I know the kids will get dragged into it, but I also don't feel it is right for the WS to be in complete control of the situation, which I think she has been doing (and I have been allowing) all along.

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LHS,<p>It seems to me your order of business is clear and you don't need to talk to your W about it.<p>1. Get the restraining order removed and expunged from your records.<p>2. Have an attorney review your separation agreement. She may say she will fight, but she really doesn't have anything to fight with. Especially, with her stories of murder plots, the bogus restraining order, etc.<p>3. Then, when the attorney has reviewed the separation agreement, talk with your W.<p>You know she isn't rational, her parents know it, I suspect your children know it. So if you argue with an idiot, you begin to sound like one.<p>Simply, go through the important steps first, find out where you really are, talk with W as little as possible, keep family in the loop to the extent necessary and get the job done.<p>I believe you know the job. Clear your name so that you CAN hold jobs if you need to. Protect your children because if memory serves me correctly your W isn't doing a very good job of that, and prepare for whatever will happen. Oh and do ALL of this with a [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] on your face and Plan A waving in the breeze.<p>NO PROBLEM, RIGHT??? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>God Bless,<p>JL

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I hear your pain, and was almost with the restraining order and filing for D myself,... I decided not to, as it would only be a major lb to my spouse who I want back... I know it is hard... but maybe you can meet her financial needs in order to get her back... maybe she will watch kids while you work... maybe not? YOu can do it... rationally and calmly explain to her the additional expenses of the situation.. maybe she will come to reality.<p>Good luck, peace be with you.<p>HONEY

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LHS,<p>
Don't know what to say. There doesn't seem to be an end to this. What's the definition of insanity?<p>
who

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Well, W has called me quite a few times today and seems like a completely changed person. We have a 'real' conversation about getting a cell phone for me so we can stay in touch. W offers to give me hers, which I find strange because that cell phone was the main form of communication between her and OM.<p>I keep the conversations light, don't LB at all, don't even bring up her messing up my weekend schedule with her 'change of plans'. W calls me again and talks about how hard it is to take care of everything by herself (I wonder if OM would be willing to help out, NOT!) Then, W tells me that she can't talk anymore because she is crabby and doesn't want to ruin my day (is she reading MB stuff?). The last conversation is about what I am going to do tonight with the kids, W offers me all sorts of good suggestions on what to do and where to go. This definetly isn't the same person who I talked to this morning.<p>I'm guessing that W's response this morning was just a reaction to me using the R (responsibility) word and making her know that I am not accepting all of the blame for our situation. W has always been good at blaming others for her problems. It was nice to see this change in her attitude, even if it is only for today. I wonder if she will come outside to greet me when I pick up the kids tonight, it would be nice to see her as well.

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lhs's lesson for today: the "r" word (responsibility) is an LB.<p>YOU ARE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT<p>Stand back and read your threads. She is oscillating back and forth over the entire WS spectrum. Do you see it?<p>This is your cue to sit back and just watch. JL is absolutely right. Talk with her as little as possible and let your attorney handle the legal stuff. Be prepared for more mood swings the likes of which you have never imagined. Whatever you do, do NOT react to every current in her river - wait a minute and it'll change. When you do have to talk with her, don't use the r word. Get it? Every time you learn something about what she reacts to, file it away and learn from it. Your goal is to allow her to project inwardly - not at you - or better yet, to OM. When you offer up the r word, for example, it allows her to project outwardly. Deny these vents and she has to vent elsewhere.<p>OK?<p>WAT

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>
Stand back and read your threads. She is oscillating back and forth over the entire WS spectrum. Do you see it?<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>lhs,<p>I was trying to say what WAT said.<p>
who

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Sorry to read about your pain LHS. My thoughts and prayers are with you! How are the kids doing?
Have they been allowed to see the OM's kids yet? I hope so. The S of my OW was here yesterday and I actually cooked supper for him! It is so tough when the kids are friends too! It was really difficult to keep things in perspective, but we made it through dinner! Good luck and HUGS to you!
BH

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WAT- Once again, you hit the nail on the head (oops, better be careful what I say, it could be taken out of context, lol). Yes I do see her swinging back and forth between the extremes. Being forced to take responsibility for her actions must be very difficult. That is what makes it so hard, I have to stay on my toes and not let these extremes get the better of me. This is something that I still need to work on very hard. But in the end it will make me stronger, learning how to deal with a WS should make it easier when my kids become teenagers (is there much of a difference between the two?)<p>Today W called me at work and asked how my 'visitation' with the kids went last night. We had a real nice conversation about a lot of different things. W told me how quiet and lonely the house is going to be when I take the kids this weekend, how much she is going to miss them. W also told me that she is going out with an old friend (not the BF or any of her other party-crowd) that I have a lot of respect for. I found that very odd, why not go out with party-girl especially if you have no responsibilities at home. W also mentioned that there are some things around the house that she can't do and I need to take care of. (I wonder how come OM can't do these things, after all, they are friends, and isn't that what friends do, help each other out?) I see some big contradictions going on, but I won't comment to her on them<p>W even gave me suggestions on where to go to get cheap home furnishings, where the best grocery stores to shop are, where to take the kids when I have them and such. Maybe this is her way of expressing her care and concern for me. This is how we were right before DDay #2, things were comfortable between us, no attempts to reconcile by W, but we were getting along and could at least be together. Looking back, I think it was because I was doing a decent job of Plan A even though W was still seeing OM. And I still think that W paniced after DDay #2 and figured that the only way to avoid more pain and guilt was to get me out of the way, problem is I am still around and I aint going anywhere.<p>So, I've learned my lesson and will avoid the 'R' word at all costs, W isn't ready yet to accept any responsibility for what she has done, need to give it time. I'm also going to let the attorney handle the ugliness that may arise if the separation papers need to be amended. Also, I need to keep our conversations away from any mention of OM, the A or anything else that may be a trigger for her to get mad at me. I'm hoping that with me being gone now, and the kids being gone from time to time, she will begin to see the seriousness of her actions and what we had wasn't so bad after all, and more importantly, can be made better than ever.

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You sound rational and confident. Good job.<p>Excellent question about why can't OM do the things for her. This illustrates one of the results of Plan B - she has to seek all this stuff from OM (or someone other than you). What are your thoughts for going to Plan B?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by loveherstill:
<strong> ....learning how to deal with a WS should make it easier when my kids become teenagers (is there much of a difference between the two?) </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Very astute. There have been frequent comparisons here of WS (and MLC) behavior to adolescent behavior - ME, ME, ME!! - short range thinking; - inability to accept responsibility for one's actions, etc, etc, etc. It is probably helpful to think of your W as a teenie bopper again - at least it may provide you with some dark humor.<p>WAT

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WAT- Actually, I don't have to 'think' about her acting like a teenager, she HAS been acting like a teenager, but that's another story. <p>Yes, why can't OM do things for her, because he doesn't do anything for his W either, the guy is domestically challenged, W even admits so, but is so willing to look past his faults and right at mine! (vent, vent, vent).<p>About Plan B, right now I am not 100% comfortable with it, it is a huge step to take and I have to make sure it is the absolute right thing for me to do. I am going to continue on the course I have set out on and see what happens, see if W (and me) responds in a positive way. I have signed a 3 mos lease and I think I will use that as a timeline to judge our progress. Right after DDay I told myself that this spring (6 mos) would be my timeline for making any Plan B decisions.<p>The things I am doing are:
- not calling W except to talk about finances or the kids, nothing else. I have noticed that W calls me a lot and talks about nothing in general, like we used to do. We are both very comfortable doing that. Why would she do this if she thinks I am such a bad person?
- not explaining my whereabouts. When W calls and I don't answer right away, her first question is always "where were you, what were you doing?" I just give generic answers. Why would she be so concerned?
- staying out of W's personal life, no questions, no comments. This prevents me from making some huge LB's and keeps me from worrying if she is with OM or not. If they are still together, the truth will be revealed to me as it has been in the past.
- keeping focused on the kids and making our limited time together as enjoyable as possible.

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OK, you sound like you're doing well. In preparation for Plan B, you need to make sure your Plan A improvements have been visable and, better yet, acknowledged by her. Can you say this?<p>Are you meeting ENs that she will let you meet?<p>Are you being the best Dad you can be under the circumstances? (I ask this for your kids' sake, not for the sake of your marriage.)<p>I can't emphasize enough that you must not seem to be trying to control or manipulate her. It doesn't matter that you're not TRYING to do this - that's not good enough. You have to be cool and laid back. No LBs, no pressure, no urgency. OK?<p>WAT

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Right now I don't think that W would verbally acknowledge my Plan A improvements, I need to look at her actions above all else. Sometimes I see little things, but nothing major, that's one of the reasons I am not comfortable moving to Plan B right now. Also, our kids need to be comfortable in the current situation of us being separated. If I move to Plan B prematurely, I'm sure that W would respond in a bad way and the kids would be caught in the middle of a nasty battle. <p>Meeting W's EN's would be easy if she would let me know what they are, but she doesn't so I have to figure it out on my own. Right now I know that conversation is high on her list, just got to keep it light. Also, knowing that I will continue to be a good father for the kids is important to her. As far as any other EN's, I have absolutely no idea what they are. I know that my willingness to provide domestic support was always something that W admired me for, wonder how that ranks now that I am no longer there to provide it.<p>As far as controlling W, whether it be real or perceived, I stopped doing that a long time ago with the help of my friends here (especially you, WHO). Even before I was forced out of our home, I was taking a laid back approach to W. When I caught her and OM together on Jan 1, I definetly didn't handle it as well as I should, made some big LB's. That's probably what scared W into filing the restraining order, she saw me as acting irrational and unpredictable, go figure.<p>No pressure, no urgency, yes easy to talk about, hard to do, but I know I need to do it. I told W a while back that I did not want to go through life permanently separated, that at sometime if things don't work out, we need to end the M as amicably as possible. That may be why W gets so upset when I bring up the separation papers, it makes her realize that this is real and there is a time limit to all of this. So I need to stay away from that subject as well unless there is a real need to discuss it.<p>Time and patience, my two biggest allies (and enemies) right now. Thanx for the advice and encouragement all.

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LHS,<p> Sound like you've got your hands full and a good perspective on the situation. I only wanted to add a couple comments to the already great advice from the other posters. Best to not debate her request for domestic assistance around the house. I would just acknowledge her request and say nothing else about it. Should it become an issue, then I'm sure you'll get around to it when you have time, but all this living elsewhere and such has really taxed your free time. <p>The other thing I almost find humorous is the "If you fight this (separation agreement), it will mean the end of our M and it won't be my fault" line. I used to hear that type of thing and also read it here often. It's always the same general message of "If you interfere with my efforts to destroy our marriage, then there will be no marriage" . In my case I felt this type of message was only put forth when the WW viewed me as needy and quite frankly, early on, when I was needy I would almos be willing to accept that kind of ultimatum. <p>
HI


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