Background: No kids; my wife and I are 31 yrs old; this is our first marriage; we've been married for 3 1/2 yrs, prior to which we dated for 6 yrs.<p>Problem: 2-3 years after the beginning of our relationship almost 10 years ago, I developed some concerns developed about my feelings for my wife. I never took these seriously, well at least until now-- I just ended a 9 month affair with another woman. I know that affect an affair can have on a marriage and how it can distort reality and feelings for your spouse-- and they can lead you to believe you're really missing something when you're not (ie., the greener grass). I'm well aware of those traps-- I've read Dr Harley's advice at marriagebuilders.com, Myth of the Greener Grass, Too Good to Leave Too Bad to Stay, Will Our Love Last, After the Affair, and went to a counselor. But I still have concerns-- some red flags that existed long before the affair, but I didn't let myself take them seriously and I was afraid to believe they existed. I now know I need to take them seriously-- I can't continue to live in relationship ambivalence like I have been. And I definitely never want another affair. So I thought I'd list what those concerns are, and I'm looking for any insight/advice you have... specifically, are my concerns signs that I just married the wrong person, or if not what can I do to become happier in this marriage-- how can I grow to love my wife, even if I've never loved her like I want to? Or maybe I'm just not mature enough for a serious marriage/relationship.<p>Before I get into the concerns, one more piece of background-- perhaps a red flag in itself-- I was first primarily physically attracted to my wife. She was a very kind person, intelligent and loved me deeply. And all of those still hold true. But physical attraction was still the main ingredient for me and what really attracted me to her in the first place. I feel naive to admit that now. Her kindness and our overall compatibility helped make us work for many years, but I'm fairly certain that beyond caring for her as a person and being physically attracted to her, and admiring her love for me, I don't think I ever developed a true love for her -as a person-. And maybe that's the root of all these concerns. I now know I should have dealt with those feelings sooner, before we married, but like a lot of people, I just thought that was the way things were for everyone... that while I always thought I should feel something more for her, like "this is a person I want to spend the rest of my life with and work through all problems to make things work"-- that was just unrealistic and unattainable. The affair I had shattered that assumption. While my wife and I do have some relationship problems, like all couples, they're probably fixable. What I'm more concerned about is the following feelings I've had for years... feelings that maybe I just don't love her like I want to and should, which I'm thinking probably aren't fixable:<p>- When I ask myself, if all our relationship problems were fixed, would I still want to be with my wife, 70% of me says No. 30% says Maybe.
- I've had several bouts of obsessive one-way infatuation with other women before and even after marriage (mostly people that I work with or friends). To some degree, I've read this is normal. But mine have been the kind where I couldn't get the person out of my mind for weeks or even months. I would imagine being married to them, how fun and wonderful it would be. These aren't usually physical attractions as much as emotional attractions; they're usually both but primarily the feelings are at an emotional attraction level, not physical. I never acted on any of these feelings toward these people, but eventually, 9 months ago, the inevitable happened-- one of those people just happened to feel the same way about me.
- I never felt special walking down the aisle to marry my wife; I never felt "I sure am lucky to be marrying this person", I never felt "this is a person I want to spend the rest of my life with". I just went with the flow and saw it as the next stage of our relationship, and all the while, there was still a part that was scared I was doing the wrong thing because of the red flags I never dealt with. Yet I convinced myself anything else was unrealistic and unattainable. I was "content" with our relationship.
- As I mentioned, about 6 weeks ago, I ended my first (and last) affair. It lasted 9 months, was secret (still is), we fell deeply in love, and I have more love for this person than I've ever had for anyone else, including my wife. Ending the affair obviously was the toughest thing I've ever done. We both decided we need to figure out what's going on with our own marriages if we could ever be together, instead of just running away from our problems and only to find that the same problems would just reappear with us.
- I don't feel much guilt over having the affair; in fact, like many people in my situation, in some ways I wish my wife would just have found out about it. I also feel like it's shown me that I think I can be much much happier-- that the feelings I thought were unattainable were really attainable. And, yes, I'm well aware of the myth of the greener grass.
- Needless to say, I'm not convinced my wife is the person I want to share the rest of my life with.
- I'm not excited to go home & see my wife at the end of the day
- I'm not excited to do fun things with my wife
- I'm not excited to touch or kiss my wife
- When i look at my wife, I've never really felt anything special-- like, "you're so beautiful", "I really love you", "I want to be with you for the rest of my life", or "I want to have a child with you"
- I don't feel anything really particularly special when we have sex
- I'm not physically attracted to my wife. This didn't start with the affair-- I wasn't attracted even before we were married. I was, as I mentioned, very attracted right at the beginning, and in fact, that's most of what there was in the beginning, but as the years went on (and did the inevitable aging and pounds), that quickly went away and now I feel I'm left with nothing. Now, I know I'll get slammed by this comment, but what can I say-- physical fitness and attraction is very important to me-- an EN according to Dr Harley. I exercise 5-6 times a week to stay fit and feel good about myself. But the scary thing is that I'm afraid even if I was physically attracted to my wife like I was in the very beginning, it probably wouldn't increase the love that I feel for her.
- Part of me is thrilled at the thought of being alone, and potentially being happier someday, like I was with the ow. But part of me is afraid of eternal loneliness or never getting a partner that loves me as much as my wife does now, or a partner that is as compatible as I have now. It's not easy for me to meet people, and I'm definitely not the very outgoing type.
- If I were to do things all over again, I'd say my wife just isn't my type, but I've always been afraid to tell myself that. As i've "matured", my needs for a partner and relationship seem so much more clear. And when I think about my wife, there just doesn't seem to be a close match. The affair seems to have only helped confirm my suspicions.<p>So you're all probably wondering, why did I marry my wife in the first place, and why haven't I left by now? My wife deeply loves me and is willing to do whatever it takes for us to be happy. We're very compatible on everyday things-- views on life, spending, where to live, etc. She's a great "homemaker" and i'm sure lots of people would think I'm so fortunate to spend the rest of my life with such a loving, fun, intelligent person. There are positives, and definitely some negatives like in any relationship, but the important thing is my wife wants to help fix whatever is making me unhappy. So, when it comes down to it, I haven't left because I'm afraid I'm just "screwed up", and with some adjustments, I can get my head screwed on straight and improve my happiness and love for this wonderful person that is my wife. I'm also terrified of never finding someone who loves me as much, someone that I am as compatible with, and that I could end up with eternal loneliness or a relationship not half as good as I have it now. Then of course, there's the stigma of being divorced (and the difficulty that adds to dating, on top of almost being 32yrs old and somewhat shy), financial impacts, what friends/family will think of me, not wanting to hurt her, etc.<p>I know affairs are dreamy experiences, not usually affected by the stress of everyday life, and how the affair could skew my perception. Even still, my gut tells me there's something fundamental missing in how I feel about my wife-- concerns that existed long before the affair . As you can tell, I'm pretty confused.

First off you were very right to break off you A. Make sure you know that it is definately over, not an option at all
About your marriage, I'm sure you have heard the old adage about relationships being work and take two people. So let me ask a bunch of questions you may need to answer. Have you two ever really tried to work on improving things? Have you talked about what might be missing? What EN do you have that arent being fufilled in the relationship? Have you discussed these with your wife? Are you of have you two seen counseling? Doubts can be self fufilling. Affairs and doubts can both fog memories of what you had together. Do you have any old love letters or pictures from when you started? Do they mean anything to you? Do you remember what you were feeling?<p>Don't give up. You have something very special. You should talk to your wife about your concerns or needs, perhaps with a counselor if you don't talk much.

From what you say, you never really cared for your wife but you married her anyway. From that I'd have to assume that either you have been using her all these years or that your memory has been 'altered'. I'd go for the second one. On the other hand, perhaps you are a user of people. What do you think?<p>It is perfectly possible that you married the wrong person. Though I do not believe that there is only one soul mate for each of us. If there were, what would be the chance of each of us meeting that one person out of the 6 billion here on earth. What would happen if your one soul mate died in and earthquake in Afghanistan a few years ago? Does this mean that first off you would have never met her because she lived in Afghanistan and that now you are doomed to be unhappy forever because she died in an earthquake? Seem ridiculous? I don't think so. I think that there are a fair number of people with whom anyone of us could be very happy and in love. It is still an act of fate that we meet one of them. It is and act of hard work and loving devotion to build a sustaining, long term relationship with them.<p>You have no idea if the OW could ever fill the bill for you as your relationship was not experienced in an environment where it had to stand on its own merit. Why do I say that. Dr. Harley has made up a list of 10 emotional needs that most people. If these needs are filled to some degree then a person feels 'in love'. What happens in an affair in that the BS fills some of the EN's and the OW fills the others. So, between the two women, you had all of your needs filled. Or, as my counselor says, the two women become as one to you, each is a part of a whole. If your wife had not been in the picture, there would have been some number of EN's that the OW did not fill. Your love for her would have been short lived.<p>My husband made an interesting comment the other day. We were talking about his ex-wife. She's made the comment to him that he will never find another woman who he loves as he loves her (she uses the pretent tense? as though I do not exist.). His comment to me was that she does not understand that his love has never died, it is just that she is no longer it's object. Instead I am the object of his love. He went on t say that each person has 'love'. We simply seek a person to be the recipient, or object, of that love. When one relationship ends, the love does not dye. We still have love. It is simply no longer directed at that person. <p>When he said it I realized that he is right. This has happened to me before too. I love in a certain way. It is my 'love'. At this time I choose to make my H the object of that love. At one time my ex-H was the object but I do not feel that he deserves it anymore.. he tore up his husband card a long time ago.<p>The love that you have felt for your wife is the quality of love you carry in yourself. She cannot make you love her any less or any more. From what you have said, you have been holding back a large portion of your love from your wife. She is not good enough, you could do better, she is not attractive enough, and on and on. Until you let go of the love, and give it to her exclusively you will not feel more for her. My bet is that neither of you has ever met each other's "most important EN's". This will cause the type of withholding that you describe. Sitting on the brink of true romantic love without ever really experiencing it. <p>Why did you then feel a romantic love for the OW? It's simple if you believe Dr. Harley. If someone meets 5 of the 10 EN's very well, then you will feel romantic love for them. Your wife was filling at least 5 of your needs, not all 10, to some level. The OW just topped off your love bank and WOW.<p>My bet is that you did not know about the EN and love bank so you never told you wife what you needed from her and how she could fill them for you. So she was never able to fill your needs. It's really not fair to her or to you. I say this because I am sure that you have also not filled her needs entirely. Most of us know that marriage is hard work. Few of us know that the work we are supposed to be doing. <p>IMHO you owe it to yourself and to your wife to give this relationship a real chance. If after one year, there is not significant improvement. Then you have done all you can. You could move on knowing that and be at peace with yourself.<p>Please continue to read the material on this web site, read the books 'Surviving an Affair", "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". Ask your wife to do the same. Fill out the EN questionnaires. Start the MB work.<p>And in the middle of all of this, you need to contemplate very seriously telling your wife about the affair. MB insists on radical honesty. Keeping a secret of that magnitude will eat away at your relationship. Your wife also has the right to know the magnitude of what she is dealing with. She has the right to the radical truth of where you stand in the marriage. In addition, you unilaterally exposed her to STD's. This was not y our right. She needs to know so that she can protect herself.<p>I hope this helps

Zorweb said it perfectly. I just want to add one thing. Please don't add children to this troubled marriage. Work hard on your marriage and read all you can, just like Zorweb suggested. Give it that year. The OW hasn't been out of your life long enough for you really know your true feelings.

Awsome post, Zorweb I was hoping someone more eloquent than me would post a good response. And I also just want to add "giving it a year" does NOT mean keeping things going as they are now for another year. That means BOTH of you seriously working at it for a year. You may have in your own way tried to change your feelings for her in the past but you cant do that without her help. Your post sounds like something my wife would post about me. If you cant remember happy times ask your wife to help you remember. even if there havent been, you yourself put it you have a great homelife otherwise. Nothings stopping you from having passionate love with your wife but yourself. Meaning you giving the effort and letting her know so she can give the effort to.

I'd like to say welcome to Marriage Builders! You've received some great advice so far, and I hope you'll do lots of reading on the forums, as well as posting more questions.<p>I'm very proud of you for coming here and asking for some feedback. It was very strange reading your post, as I swear you could be my H!!! But your post sounds very familiar to many of the stories here at MB. That means.... you are not alone, and yes, there is help for you and your wife.<p>Please read as much of the Harley materials as you can, and PLEASE be honest and open with your W. I wish SOOOO badly that my H had been open and honest with me as he felt himself "not having those feelings" for me. I didn't have a clue he felt that way, and I venture to say your W doesn't have a clue either. Open communication with your W, and sharing MB with her, as well as the books and other materials, these forums, and counseling, can bring your love and marriage to a brand new level. You 2 can learn some things to improve your relationship and give it a fair chance.

Dear Mr Hartounian, <p>You may only have been married to your W for 3 1/2 years but you have in total been together for 9 1/2 years. Correct?<p>That`s a long time. You say that in the very begining that you were very attracted to your W although not at the time when you eventually married. So you were already together with her for 6 1/2 years and also having sex with her during that time I am assuming. <p>When I first met my H we were passionate about one another. We couldn`t get enough sex. My heart would do flip flops when he would enter the room. We were all over each other, just couldn`t get enough of one another. This is perfectly normal, I think ALL couples are like this in the very beginning. It doesn`t last. EVER. <p>The love and the feelings change. We got more comfortable and yes sometimes even a little irritated with one another. My H and I were together for two years before we married. The intense passion did not last two years. Love evolves over time. In my own marriage things only went down hill once we had children but that`s another story and not pertinent here. <p>My point is that the intense feelings do die down. The love changes in ALL relationships. It is unrealisitic to expect to feel the mad passion forever. But that`s okay. Love can grow into something deeper, more profound. It`s not as heady as new love but it musn`t be discounted. <p>When someone has an A they have all of the passionate feelings with the new person. They think to themselves "I don`t get this with my own spouse so perhaps I don`t love them, I want to feel like this all the time" It will not happen. After being with the OP for a while the passion will also ebb. It`s a fact of life. <p>I am not in your shoes so this is just my opinion. Perhaps you might want to sit down and think about this. You describe your W as having some very fine qualities and there are things about her that you do appreciate but it seems to me that perhaps you are missing the passion. Could this be? If so, do you think that you could imagine a deeper more stable love?<p>Your W needs to know about the A. It will be very difficult but you both need to learn from this.

My H ,during his A, would have said the same things you did about your W about me. We had been M 27 years at the time...and he said he "didn't think he ever loved me"....after 3 children,22 yrs of his alcoholism,bankrupcy(brought on by a business he bought),neglect of me,supporting him after his parents died (he took it VERY badly,of course), taking me for granted, me raising the kids alone,cross-country move away from my family,,,blah,blah. He did stuff FOR me,too..,.but isn't this just real life?<p>I think a person can convince themselves of anything if they need to. I do agree with Zorweb, give it a year of your best effort..I 'll bet if you tell her about the A, you will be surprised at the depth of her emotion and Your own feelings,once she knows.You do her and frankly, yourself a diservice if you are not honest. <p>And if after the year is up and you still don't want her, let her go to find someone to love her the way she deserves to be loved. Believe me, she KNOWS she is not #1 to you..whether she wants to admit it or not. No one could be happy being second to the one they love. <p>I knew my H took me for granted for years but I was sure that he would one day realize how much he loves aqnd needs me. Well, he sure did....D-day.

Mr. Hartounian - <p>Welcome - I'm so glad you have been given alot of great feedback! I also thought you could have at one time been my H writing this!!! Actually, the first time I read your post there were no responses, and I could not reply, your post hit me so hard where my fears live and the place in my heart that hurts even 3 years after H's EA.<p>You could be talking about my H and me. However, I feel deep down I will never be enough for him. Or that he will never show me the love I really need from him. I also want to believe that if my H could figure out what he needs (outside a relationship) to be happy with HIMSELF, that our relationship would get better. <p>I am working right now on meeting H's #1 need for an attractive spouse. I, like your wife have changed physically over the years, and my H witheld his disappointment and true feelings about it( along with his love and affection) for years. <p> If she really wants to "fix" what is making you unhappy, then you have to be honest and loving in telling her. Don't make her feel as if she is not good enough. If it is a weight problem you are talking about, you don't know how much it may already be bothering her. If it is this, also make her a part of your workout program if at all possible. Also, if she asks you to help her, do so in a loving manner, for example, Go for a walk with her, even if you don't feel like it sometimes. In other words, don't make her bear the difficulty of "fixing" things all by herself.<p>On the other side of this - I would bet that some of your wife's ENs have been going unmet as well as your own. I know that long before my H's EA, I was the unhappy one, telling him that I needed more affection, more understanding, less anger in our disagreements. He did not make changes in these things and I was just as ripe for an EA at the time as he was. I had continued to be loving, and put my needs aside. <p>Are you willing to look at your contributions to the situation? What things has your wife asked of you during your relationship that you might have thought were unimportant, or "no big deal"?
I REALLY BELIEVE if you leave "your" part unaddressed it will be impossible for her to address hers. <p>Right now I feel that no matter what else I do, because of his need for attractive spouse is not yet met, I will never be worthy of him making changes in himself that benefit both of us. A very frustrating stalemate for us both! I do not believe it is overt, however. Read my post in EN section if you want to know more.<p>YOU do have something special!! You have to open your eyes and start giving in order to see it! If you can start giving more in your relationship, and lovingly share your concerns(ENs) with your wife (sharing each others ENs and working to meet them), what you think you are missing is attainable. Give her a chance to be the person you think she isn't. That part of her might just be there, needing help and love from you in order to come out. <p>I don't mean to blast you, I am glad you came here for support. I am glad you are looking for answers. Follow the advice zorweb gave you. Read and implement strategies to make your marriage better. PLease do not have anything to do with the OW (this is imperative!!) Make the changes you need to make in yourself as well. Give it time and your very best effort before you decide to move on. Your wife deserves that.
And so do you!!<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: bette ]</p>

Thank you all for your advice. i made the mistake of also posting at affairs-help.com, and have been spending time replying over there. All your points make sense. And your advice seems very solid and consistent, which is refreshing. That's what I was hoping for. I'm suprised how many people think i'm their husband. i don't think I am based on your writing styles... so don't worry!! <p>I have gone through all of Dr Harley's questionnaires, and yes, with my wife! She's aware of all of my feelings and unhappiness, except for the affair. she has adamently told me she would immediately leave and never forgive me if that ever happened. so i haven't told, and probably never will. yet i know keeping that a secret add distance between us and be destructive.<p>I think time will tell here. I agree that maybe 6 weeks away from my affair partner isn't enough. it's funny how many of the same ideas and thoughts i had-- like going back to look at old love letters i wrote my wife. i will definately do that. it is possible i just lost tough with my feelings for her. but then again, i was really trying to be objective about the concerns i originally posted. I just don't know.<p>I guess one question i'd ask-- what do happily married people feel for their spouse? do they feel like they want to spend the rest of their lives together? i know i can't expect that to happen right away, or even in the next 6-9 months given the affair. and even happily married couples have their ups & downs. but i need to know what's reasonable to expect in how i feel about my wife, and what's not. i realize to some degree this is personal opinion, but there are probably some "no-brainers", like wanting to touch them, wanting to suprise them from time-to-time, wanting to have sex with them, wanting to do fun things together, etc.

The title of your message is "Did I just marry the wrong person." After reading your letter I would have to conclude that it was your wife who married the wrong person.

Dear MrHartounian,<p>There is not a BS alive who has not said to their spouse "if you ever cheat I will never forgive you and I will leave you" Everyone says that and feels that. That is usually not what happens though. If both partners are willing to do the work, the marriage can be fixed. It seems that although you are unsure of your feelings for your W at this point that the two of you do have alot going for you. <p>If you do keep this a secret you may very well be doing all of the reparation work for nothing. The longer it goes without coming out the harder it is going to be on your W. If you are able to work things out and the the truth comes up later your W is going to feel like it has all been a lie. You need to start with a clean slate here. It`s going to hurt and will be very tough but it is the best thing to do if your really want to save your marriage. Your W needs to know the extent of the damage before she will understand how to fix it and prevent it from happening in the future. There will be alot of tears and angry words but in the long run it is going to score points for you, it will show your W that you are truely remorseful if she hears the truth from you and fairly soon. If you keep it a secret there is always the chance one day that it may come out and not necessarily from you either. That is what happened between my H and I. He had a ONS and kept it hidden for 3 years until a third party told me about it. <p>We are only 17 months into recovery, that is 17 months post d-day. 5 years from the actual one night stand (you see we`d pretty much recovered if my H had only come to me with the truth sooner). Anyway I consider myself, 17 months into this, a newcomer. It`s a long road but I think it`s worth it. I am now startig to imagine us as an old married couple sitting on the porch swing one day watchng our grandchildren on the lawn. My H made a horrible mistake and we have both paid for it dearly but since d-day we BOTH have made so many changes that our marriage is better than it`s ever been. I still think about my H`s infidelity and it still hurts a great deal but in our day to day lives we are ever SO MUCH happier than we have ever been. We have been married nine years now and yes NOW I do look forward to seeing him. The sex is good, not the wild stuff like in the beginning but feelings when we do have sex are much deeper. We now make it a point to spend time together, we buy each other little unexpected gifts, pretty much the things you are asking about. We did none of this for the first several years of our marriage. We both understand that what we have now is maybe not as exciting as a new fling but it is much more satisfying.<p>You said some very nice things about your W. I think that perhaps you do still love her but not in the way you THINK you should. All of her qualities that first drew you to her are still there. I actually made a list (post d-day) of what I admired in my H in the very beginning. He still has those qualitites. I am the same person my H first fell in love with too. We both took those qualities for granted after a while.