Here is a topic for which I hope to get some reply's from people who are on both sides of the river.It is not an easy subject to deal with, because whomever was the one in the soured marriage is more than likely to be the one who has to admit that they have any "baggage".Let me rephrase that.Everbody has "baggage",but "baggage" that was caused by one's previous marriage, MUST and CANNOT be brought into the new marriage.PERIOD.
In life,which is all trial and error,we generally make decisions on previous experience's.It is human nature.If you stub your toe walking barefoot on the concrete,and have done it enough to where you have lost your toe nail,you more than likely arent going to walk barefoot on the sidewalk anymore.You will put shoes on and walk very careful.But,if all the kids are walking barefoot on the sidewalk and someone ask you why your wearing shoes,you should not be ashamed to say that you've had a very bad experiance walking barefoot,obviously had a problem lifting your foot and wearing shoes has elimitnated the problem.But,you cannot deny the fact that the reason you wear the shoes in the first place is because you have stubbed your toe many times,and that is why you are cautios. With that in mind ,let me give you our problem.I will type all words because I have no clue as to what all the abrieviated symbols are.
This marriage was my first ,her second.We are both 33 years old ,and have known each other since high school.We have the same friend base and know allot of previous history about each other which is good,but at the same time,VERY BAD.We both had a crush on each other in high school,but we never dated,because of the timing of other relationships.She then met her husband out of HS and married him(1986).She was a virgin at that time.(which,I may add,is allot of pressure on a girl at that particular age). I ,on the other hand,continued dating "every girl" around,according to her,but was actually just looking for love.(obviously ,in all the wrong places).Move forward to 1998,she is leaving her husband due to falling out of love with him. He obviously is'nt happy and proceeds to fill her in on his 12 years of infidelity,lying,betrayal,manipulation,and or numerous other things that would naturally hurt and embarrass any human being that breaths air on this beautiful place we call earth. NOW,I am obviousy not going to sit here and say that she has no right to feel upset,hurt,betrayed,deceived,embarrassed and distrustful.We knew she was hurting from all the news that had come up,but was also so happy she was out of the relationship.She said at the time (confiding to me as a friend)that she was,in her heart,already gone from him so she wasnt that botherd by all the revelations.YEAH RIGHT,I said to myself.It might make it easier to get over it,but you can't say that it would'nt effect or persuade the way you might think or make a descision.There is no way that anybody could believe,that after 12 years of thinking that you had a perfect marriage in bliss,had no clue what was really going on,that they did'nt have any distorted views about relationships.No way ! We started dating almost 6 months after their demise and I knew that she was very hurt,and thought I could help her.I have always been someone that is happy,surround myself with happy people,and pretty much have done pretty good for myself as far as work and stableness goes.I saw Bobby Brady fireworks the first night we kissed. IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE !!! WOW !!!! OH MY GOD, I SAID TO MYSELF.......I THINK I'M IN LOVE.I waited 15 years for this , but it was so worth it.We both had survived with no kids to that point(is that very good to say ?)and it was very easy for us to come together.I KNEW SHE WAS THE ONE !!! I JUST KNEW IT.I knew that she was having reservations about dating me,with my background and all.I mean ,after all,why would she want to go through the same hurt and pain that she is feeling right now again.It was only a matter of time before I would eventually cheat on her and she just did'nt want to go through it again. I understood her feeling's ,but I also understood mine. I WAS IN LOVE,AND I WAS GOING TO DO WHICHEVER AND WHATEVER IT TOOK TO MAKE HER MINE.I JUST KNEW I COULD MAKE HER HAPPY. Or, so I thought.
They say that women change when they get married.I truly believe that. Men change also,I just dont think so drasticly.She said she would'nt.I asked her if she would be able to fully trust me if we where to ever get married.(yes,I said the M word,which I would'nt even allow into my vocaulary before). She said yes,of course I will , I can feel the love you have for me and I have never felt anything like it.Then she would happen to talk to a friend ,say something to the fact that we where dating and of course the answer she always heard was......"WHAT,what are you thinking ? You know he is going to cheat on you.After what you have been through,why would you want to set yourself up for that",and so on.
Well ,I aksed her to marry me, the day after her divorce was final ,to try to put her trust in me.(being said that people would have probably bet their paycheck I would never get married). She had no idea. It came out of nowhere. It was awesome.
Well ,in time , pretty soon ,her insecurity started to evolve,which I had expected,of course.JUST NOT AS TO THE EXTREME THAT IT WAS.Her ex use to say he was going to Home Depot,and then go cheat on her,as she found out later.So,of course, any timeI left the house without her,I was cheating. I tried to deal with it the best I could,for a while,and I am not saying that it was the best way.(trial and error,remember?)but,I just felt everything I said and everything I did was totally under the microscope. Which was all right...I was not guilty of anything ,I had nothing to hide.But she wouldnt believe me.She would question my answers to anything and everyhting. I started to really feel the pressure from it all.But,it eventually started to make me mad.She was questioning my integrity.I stood in front of friends and family to show my love and to prove it to her,but in her eye's,all she saw was her ex-husband. I did'nt have to get married.It was'nt because she was pregnant,it was because I LOVED HER !!! ALLOT !!!I wanted to get married and make her the most happy and cared for women in the world.She would'nt believe me. This was told to her before.This has happened to her before. Now,this is a problem. I know it is.She knows it is. We have talked about it ,and she has admitted it,but,in the heat of an arguement,she will not admit it.She will not be wronged.NO WAY JOSE' !
For the first year ( we have been married 2 ),it was the insecurity's I was dealing with,but this second year has been the anger that is coming out.Explosion type anger. Mean,hateful,degradeing,hurtful,condenscending type behavior.Bad,real bad. When she talks to me she starts out with something in an accusing manner from the start.Then she will proceed to tell me what,how,why I did something. If I try to even just insert anything to the conversation,I am now defending myself,and of course, that makes me guilty. So now,I am being blamed for something that has little truth to it,and if I try to tell her what my opinion is of her "story",I am talked over ,screamed at,degraded like no other ,and told things like I have never heard before. She will then say that she does'nt know what she was thinking getting married to me,it was the stupidest thing that she has ever done,the biggest mistake,and that she wishes she would have just stayed with her ex-husband.
"He would have never made me feel like this"
"I could always talk to him"
"he respected me way more than you"
"the only reason I'm here is,I have no place to go"
You got issues man.
So ,lo and behold ,here we are. I have talked to her. She knows the way she gets upset and screams at me is not good for us.I will eventually leave to get away,in fact she will tell me to go,but then she will be raging upset when I come home.But at the time,she is not thinking about us,she is only thinking about herself. I am not allowed to even bring up the facts about her previous marriage now. NO way. She isnt bothered by that .She's fine...It's all me....
"I don't even want to hear that you think any of this stems from my previous marriage" she will say to me. Going back to my tennis shoe theory, can you hear the kid now ..."I don't even want to hear that you think I am wearing shoes because I can't walk barefoot on the sidewalk without stubbing my toe"......I dont know... There is so much that I could go on forever.But,of course there is two sides to any story. I am also not saying I am perfect. I just think she needs to deal with that before we move on and deal with us.Marriage is not only MARRYING the right person,but BEING the right partner.
So , before I end up with a book on this , I will stop and look for any suggestions and opinions to try to save our union.Thank you all. Jeff
..PEACE,LOVE....FLOWERS AND LILYPADS....2002

Hi, <p>Welcome to marriage builders. Have you read the basic concepts here? It will acquaint you with some of the principles we try to individually apply in our lives. In the basic concepts section is an emotional needs questionnaire which might be good for you and your W to take. Also the book his needs/her needs may be a good one to read. <p>Take a look at the info here. Also there is phone counseling available with Steve Harley or Jennifer C. Both are good. <p>There are definitely real issues for you and your W to deal with. Not totally one sided but definitely worth both of you working on together. <p>Read and post back your comments. <p>L.

RE: They say that women change when they get married.I truly believe that. Men change also,I just dont think so drasticly.<p>HA! You have obviously never been married to a man. Both of my XH’s become people I did not know within 6 months of our marriage. The first one spent every minute of every day with me before our marriage. After our wedding he was never home, always out with the guys. My second husband was a reasonable man before I married him. He was the last person I would ever have expected of being physically abusive. After our wedding he became taciturn and physically abusive. My current, and third husband was the most loving, sweetest man I’ve ever known. He is very religious and certainly the last man I’d ever expect to cheat on me… look at my signature to see what the surprise has been in this marriage. The one good thing this that I do believe that my current H has returned to his senses.<p>As for baggage from previous relationships. It’s always there. You are suffering from something that my current H and I have suffered from. Getting involved too soon after the end of a marriage. The rule of thumb is that a person should not even start to date until at least one year after the divorce is final. It takes at least one full annual cycle for the human mind and emotions to work through the loss of a marriage. While your relationship was a high for her, she did not take the time to process the loss. So now you are living with the results.<p>It seems that you have a great need for your wife to express that she is acting the way she is because of her fears from the previous marriage. Your insistence on this sounds punitive. Like you want her to take all of the responsibility for the current state of your marriage.<p>She is telling you that she perceives the problems as belonging solely to the current marriage. You seem to not even respect her enough to listen to her point of view, much less to give it credence. If you want to save you marriage you better listen to her. She is telling you that she is very unhappy and you are not listening. Your wife has very specific needs. You need to find out what those are and give them to her or your marriage is going to continue down hill.<p>It is true that some of the issues from her previous marriage are seeping into your marriage. It is also true that some of your attitudes and ‘hurts’ from other relationships are seeping into your marriage. This is a two way street.<p>You are both right and both wrong. But does it really matter who is right or wrong? Do you want to be right or do you want to be married? If your answer is to be married then you are going to have to quit focusing on her and look into yourself. We have heard what she has done wrong in your marriage. What is your contribution? This is what MB is about… looking into yourself, becoming a better person and spouse. And loving your spouse in the way they need to be loved.<p>Please read the material on this web site and the MB material.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It seems that you have a great need for your wife to express that she is acting the way she is because of her fears from the previous marriage. Your insistence on this sounds punitive. Like you want her to take all of the responsibility for the current state of your marriage. <hr></blockquote> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
I am sorry that you where misled. I am not stating that I have and want her to take the responsibility.She is the one looking to prove who is right,and who is wrong. I say,If one of us is wrong,both of us are wrong.Lets try to find the solution,communicate over the options,make the call,draw up the "plan",must always have a "plan,and put 100% into making that plan work.BUT ,at no point should either one be allowed to berate the other simply because they feel they are'nt being listened too.I also get no benifit of the dought.I am always having to prove why I did or did not do something.All she see's that stands before her is a man who is ugly ,a child,a loser,a LIAR,a cheater,a selffish pig. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I just have a problem with the fact that in one of our first arguements,she flew off the handle,was very negative towards our relationship,said marrying me was the worst mistake in her life,and that her ex husband was a better husband then I'll ever be,and then proceeds to call me damn near every bad word in the dictionary.She says I dont respect her !!! She says that he repected her more. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] WHOA !!!! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] He cheated on her in their own bed for god's sake,yet she's going to tell me that he respected her more.....That is 100% denial and 100% hurt.AND ,BOY DOES IT HURT. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Now,I cant take that .I brought it to her early on saying that that talking to me in that manner will cause damage to my "levee of love" for her. I said everytime that happens,she is knocking some dirt off of my levee and it is hard to fix a levee when it continues to rain. The next day ,she will act like nothing ever happened.NOTHING.....she'll want to talk or do something. I tell her that I think I am owed an apology before we move on. She gets mad,very defensive,and then proceeds to tell me that I know that her lashing out at me is just a way of trying to hurt me,and that she didnt mean any of it."That is just who I am honey,deal with it". ,she'll tell me.Then shell ask me "your not going to bring us down are you ? ","your not gonna pout and cry over a couple of "words" are you", "I have nothing to be sorry for,your the one with all the issues".Once she has a scenario in her head that she "feels" is the truth or the facts of any scenario,I will ask her how she came to her conclusion,usually point out some flaws in the story,almost to the point of proving my innocense,but she doesnt hear me. This is almost comical.Okay,no its not. It's just that,all her problems with me,are because of the way I am ,and she is forever pointing out any flaw,or mistake that I may have. That is why she is upset. Because she wants to change me, if she doesnt see the nessacary changes that she wants from me in the pre-set time that she has agreed to ,but not telling me that deadline,then she gets very ,very upset. Now this is why I said this was funny....We are argueing over things in me that are my characteristics and traights,but yet she is able to push this aside and give the [censored] excuse that ,"this is who I am,I didnt mean anything that was said".Okay ,she might not have meant it , but they still hurt and not only that , but she lets me stew with them for a couple of days. Then ,when she wants to do something,or say that she wants to talk,she CANNOT AND WILL NOT EVER ISSUE AN APOLOGY AND IF I BRING IT UP,SHE DOWNPLAYS ANY RESPONSIBILITIES FOR HER ACTIONS. NOW ZORWEB,IS THIS SOMEONE WHO SOUNDS LIKE THEY CARE ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP.She will say that my ego needs to be stroked and that I've got issues.I am not pointing out,or blaming for that matter all of our problems on her. I just have been trying since day 1 but she never makes any changes NONE. To forgive and foget, you must be able to forget what you forgave. That means in any arguement that is petty,if she becomes angry,she will soon be screaming everything and anything that has happened to us. Thatis not fair.I am going to bed now,not getting much sleep since she left. The thing about all this that is frustrating is ,I LOVE HER , and she is hurting herself,but not wanting to deal with it.I have a feeling she will wake up one day and wish I was still around. Verbal abuse is very bad,but it isnt looked at in that light because there is no contact physically,but it sure does cause dammage that otherwise might not surface..Welcome all replys. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] ..HELP.... [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

WHAT TODOAT32,<p>Sorry if my post bothered you. Sometimes it’s hard to understand what is going on with only one post. So I’m looking for info that will help us all know how to help you. Thanks for being a good sport and giving more info.<p>OK, we are getting a clearer picture now. You are right. You should not take this kind of behavior. First off you can bet she was like this with her XH. Some if the things she accuses you of (like cheating) may be new, but the behavior is not. She said so herself… “This is just who I am.” You can see what he was dealing with. This is not to say that he was perfect either, obviously. You are in a verbally abusive relationship. You sound like a really sweet guy who has no clue how to handle what you walked into. Every marriage has a surprise or two. This is yours. There are things that you can do to defuse the situation before it gets worse. Try all you want, you will not convince her at this time that she has a problem. Verbally abusive people are ‘programmed’ to not remember the intensity of their outbursts; some times they do not even remember them. They come to see the object of their love as the enemy, the cause of all their problems. It is useless to try to reason with her or educate her on how she is wrong. It just is not going to happen.<p>I highly recommend that you read the book “The Verbally Abusive Relationship”. Amazon.com carries it. The book will give you some techniques to handle this type of person. <p>My XH was like this so I understand your frustrations and where you are. I wish that book had been available during that marriage. It may have helped me deal with things much better. It was published after I left him and the marriage was too far-gone to save.<p>So the first answer to what you are doing to contribute to the problems in you marriage is that you do not know how to handle a verbally abusive person. (Like we are born with that knowledge??? I know it does not seem fair to say that it is your ‘contribution’, but it is. Just as it was my contribution in my previous marriage.) Stop arguing with her. Stop trying to prove yourself to her. When she is out of line say something like… “Stop, I do not want to hear this. When you can speak to me in a reasonable manner I’m available. Right now I am leaving (going for a walk, going to a room and shutting the door) until this situation clams down.” When you do this put your hand up in the manner a cop would to stop traffic. If she follows you, repeat it. Do not engage in this type of conversation. An interaction can only continue if both parties interact… it is a game. A very nasty, dangerous game.<p>____________
RE: We are arguing over things in me that are my characteristics and traights<p>Can you give some examples of the characteristics and traits of yours that she harps on? Trying to assess things here and help you.

~~~~ I have allot of friends.
~~~~ I am to outgoing,to many hobbies.
~~~~ I leave the house (running) when where fighting.
~~~~ My time management.
~~~~ I get too involved with everything I do.
~~~~I feed into her insecuritys
~~~~ I dont hear her...
~~~~ I am not listening...
~~~~ We havent had sex in months.
~~~~ I only think about myself.
These are all the same subjects probably all women have with there men.Men are from Venus,women are form mars.She says I am not the husband she thought I was going to be so she is leaving.Well , to tell you the truth ,she is not the wife I thought I was getting.BUT , I still dont complain,I dont bring all her stuff to the table every night, I love her for who she is,and that's that. She can't love me for who I am. I don't even know who I am anymore anyway...I have tried to listen and make adjustments and changes , but I see none in her.I just feel she sets us up to fail....She wants to be miserable.

No, these are not the same issues all women have with their husbands. Each marriage is unique. I’m going to ask more questions so please stay with me.<p>Why haven’t you had sex in six months? If you want to keep a woman bonded to you that is how you do it. The longer you go without filling her needs for affection, conversation and sexual fulfilment (SF), the further she will pull away from you. So what is going on in the SF department?<p>Time management and your being involved in things outside of your marriage seem to the an issue… so here are the questions….<p>---How many hours a week do you spend with your wife doing things that you enjoy?
---How many hours a week do you just sit down and talk with her? How many hours do you both spend just listening to each other?
---How many hours a week do you spend with your friends and with your hobbies?
---Have your friends embraced her and included her?
---Are you very involved in the things that you do? Do you get so involved that you get lost in them for hours?<p>These things do seem to feed into her insecurities. <p>It sounds to me like you both love each other but you are both like swimmers hanging on to each other, trashing in the water and pulling each other down.<p>Have you read the books “Surviving an Affair”, “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”. They would really help you I believe. I now that you nor your wife have had an affair. But it will give both of you insights into her previous marriage and her baggage. It will also give you insights into what is happening in your marriage.<p>Will be looking for your responses.<p>[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Hi WTD. Zorweb has said alot of the things I was going to say. Or the questions I was going to ask actaully. The no sex for 6 months thing is bad. She may be suspicious of it and then tie all your other actions into that fact. It's perfectly ok for a spouse to have time to themself and other hobbies....as long as you spend equal time with your spouse too. You just can't build a good marriage with no trust. It won't happen. You have to prove to her and it will take time that she can trust you. She should get some councelling to help her with this. I can understand she feels, but she needs to learn how to trust again. Don't argue with her or take it personally. Just reassure her and be a rock for her [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

WOW, thank you zorweb !!! I like the fact that you responded and didnt offer your opinion.....Just a solution. Now, believe me ,this whole "no sex in 6 months" thing is not my idea or my fault. I am totally attracted to her.I think my wife is the sexiest thing on earth.My wife will come to bed pull the covers over her head,or up to eyes,and proceed to just lay there.That's it.Sometimes,because I know its a problem,I dont know if she is in the mood or not. Here she is laying there waiting for me to act upon her,yet I am laying there wondering if she wants to.I want to ,trust me,I AM A MAN.I am actually very insecure in the bedroom now,which I dont even comprehend.My confidence level is at an all time low.I guess what I am saying is,I feel that she is just playing a game with me. It's like she is laying there to see if I try,but if I dont, then that is it.We dont have sex. I mean for me to actually hope and pray that someday she would roll over and actually start rubbing around my bellybutton is setting myself up for dissapointment. To answer some other ?'s...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> ]---How many hours a week do you spend with your wife doing things that you enjoy? <hr></blockquote>
I would guess that you would get different answers from both of us,but I would guess about 25 to 30.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> ---How many hours a week do you just sit down and talk with her? How many hours do you both spend just listening to each other? <hr></blockquote>
I would say this is also a sticky subject. I know my wife petty well. I can tell if something is bothering her.If I am noticing this from her I will kind of wait to see if she feels like communicating this to me.If after a while ,she is still showing signs of something stewing inside, I will ask her "is anything wrong honey". Well,sometimes this answer is "sure honey,lets sit down and talk about it",but most of the time I get " WHY,WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG !!! ?Where should I do at this point? It is at this point that I think I fail.I am trying to be there for her,I am trying to be a listener,because I can clearly see that something is bothering her,but maybe it's my approach. If I leave her alone though ,2 days later she will say she was hurting and I didnt even care to ask.Whew,just typing this shows me the circles we run.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>---How many hours a week do you spend with your friends and with your hobbies?
---Have your friends embraced her and included her?
<hr></blockquote> I usually dont commit any days to my friends.I do go to our local professional basketball team's home games (half of the season),and she is alright with that.I have given her the schedule of all games that I have, so she doesnt get blindsided with me going that day. On the average ,I would say,10-15 hours a week with my friends,but with that I will answer your next ?.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> ---Have your friends embraced her and included her?<hr></blockquote>
My friends have totally embraced her and included her. I dont know if you have read about our past,but we have known each other since high school and have allot of the same friends.We frequently do things together with our friends,so that why it was a little hard to answer that one.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> ---Are you very involved in the things that you do? Do you get so involved that you get lost in them for hours?<p> <hr></blockquote>
Yes, I do. I am "guilty" of that. That is one trait of mine she used to like. I am one who "makes things happen","gives it his all",and "does what he say's", she used to tell me.I feel so much pressure from her right now.If she makes a comment (usually not a positive one) about something around the house,because of it's condition or whatnot, I am going to do whatever it is to fix it/change it,so as to make her happy.But,then now where fighting over me spending to much time on this project.I just feel she always picks out the problems but never has the solutions.
How do you know what's wrong,when you don't know what right ?
Because of the brittleness surrounding us lately,it seems like things I do or say are so blown out of proportion that it leaves little room for error.Because whatever I say or do is so closley scutinized that then we are fighting over what I said or did.....THE SAGA CONTINUES.....................TRYING TO KEEP THE FAITH,LITERALLY.

WHAT TODOAT32 <p>What I see in your story so far is that both of you feel like the other is doing something wrong. You are both hurt. In a marriage, we have to assume that both people are right and both are wrong. Your wife's feels are as real and important as yours. So how does a couple move beyond this? My experience is that one of the two people has to take the initiative to change things. One of the two has to forget what they see as injustices and hurts and just start behaving in a manner that will change the relationship. If one of you changes, the other has no choice but to change. You cannot control your wife or her reactions. But you can change yours. One of you is going to have to change. Since you are the one here asking I assume you are willing and ready to do this. It does not matter who is right or wrong, you are both hurting. <p>I know that I'm starting to sound like a broken record. Please read the book "His Needs, Her Needs". It is carried on this web site,amazon.com and at many bookstores. The book talks about how a couple gets to the point you are at and how to get your marriage back on track. After that read "Love Busters" and then "Surviving an Affair".. Your relationship is falling apart and quickly getting to a point of no return. But you can affect it positively.<p>You wife may very well be suffering depression and other affects from her previous marriage. Her H was cruel to dump his infidelity on her as a divorce present. She has a lot to deal with. But this is who you married. By dating her before she was divorced and marrying her immediately after the divorce you accepted the responsibility of helping her heal from her previous marriage and from her H's infidelity. I am sure that you did not realize this at the time you married her.. but it is true none the less. All marriages have surprises. I guess this is yours. Not an easy pill to swallow, but most of the surprises not easy ones.<p>OK more questions....<p>RE: this whole "no sex in 6 months"<p>Here's my take on what you have shared. Earlier you said that she is unhappy with the lack of a sex life. And now that she does this almost hiding thing and just waits. You want her to approach you. It sounds like a stalemate. Each of you is waiting for the other to make the first move. One of you is going to have to do it. <p>In the past, when things were good between you. How did it used to work? Did she always let you know that she was interested? Did you always approach her first? Or was it about equally shared?<p>OK, you know that what you are doing does not work. So you have to stop doing the same old thing, expecting different results. It may not work right now if you just approach her for sex. Intimacy, closeness and trust have to be rebuilt. <p>Instead pamper her for a few days. Instead of starting with asking for sex, why don't you start by asking if she would like a massage? Do things like that to make her feel good and to relax her.<p> Then share with her your desire and reluctance. That you fear she has been interpreting it as lack of interest. But instead you have been trying to be responsive her sensitivities. You may have been really misreading her bedtime actions. She may want you to be the one to initiate more often.<p>
RE: (about time spent together doing things you both enjoy) I would guess that you would get different answers from both of us, but I would guess about 25 to 30.<p>What kind of things are you doing together? How many of these hours are one-on-one with your wife? How many of them are with other people too? And how many of them are the two of you doing different things in the same room (like one of you on the computer and the other reading a book)?<p>MB suggests that a couple be each other's main companions for recreational activities. Like you both take up tennis and play together. If you play couples tennis that's ok too. But you and your wife as a team is the focus. These activities should be something that you both are learning and achieving a skill together.<p>RE: (about the amount of time you two spend together talking, one on one) I would say this is also a sticky subject.<p>Wow, this was an interesting answer. It sounds like when you and your wife try to talk it's mostly about your relationship or what is bothering her or you. It also sounds like your wife feels a little badgered. You seem to be a guy who wants to identify the problem and fix it post haste. Your wife does not seem to be coorperating.<p>Do you ask your wife about her day? Women will often tell their mates all sorts of things about their day, their feelings, etc. This includes the problems they are facing. Then men, being "mr fix it" try to rush in and fix all their mate's problems. This causes problems because the woman is not looking for her H to fix anything. She just wants someone to listen to her unload. Just a sympathetic ear. Then she wants to be trusted to fix her own problems. My H and I now have a way to handle this. If all I want is an ear, I tell him that I just want him to hear me out. If I want advice or help, then I let him know that is what I want. Otherwise, he will try to fix everything and I end up feeling like a child that he does not trust to lead my own life. See how it works? Women have a habit of talking up a blue streak about a problem.. .it is our way of mulling it over.. Aloud. Men usually do not get it. And I must admit it can be very frustrating to hear your wife go on and on about something day after day when the solution is so obvious. <p>The other thing about your comment about conversation that struck me is that it seems you mostly talk about relationship problems. When I asked the question I was thinking also along the line of conversation about general topics..
Politics, weather, religion, each other. I learned something in dealing with my kids. If I ask them "How was your day." Or "Are you doing ok in Math." They will respond with a grunt and ok. Not very deep. But if I start talking about my day, my problems, etc. They will pipe up with the things in their day that relate. Most people do not respond very well to direct questions. It sounds and feels like interrogation. <p>It seems that you might want to totally avoid direct questions about your relationship for a while and just have fun. My family plays a game we call "1000 questions". It's great with the kids, but my H and I have started it too. It's spurred hours and hours of great conversations. Some down right funny, some sexy and some very serious. Questions like "What is the most awful thing you ever bought." "What?s the worst thing you ever did to anyone", "Tell me about the best pet you ever had.", "Does God laugh?", "What is your wildest sexual fantasy?", "Where is the most risky place you fantasize about making love? (like the Eiffel tower)". The way it is played is that we take turns asking the questions. And each of us gets to answer. I've found out so much about my H this way, things that I would have never known. And I've revealed so much of myself to him through this. The one thing that has really struck me is that in all of this I have gotten the answers to many questions that he was not able to answer when asked directly.<p>We have even bought books of conversation starter questions to give us ideas. Some of the good ones are "The Book of Fabulous Questions", Penelope Frohart and "The Book of Questions, Love & Sex", Gregory Stock, PH. S. If you search under 'conversation starters' in amazon.com quite a few of these books will come up.<p>Another thing that we have started to do is to read the newspaper and weekly magazines to each other and discuss the topics. The idea is to have fun together and to discover each other. If you spend time together talking one-on-one, holding hands, going for walks, you will start to bond again. The anger will probably start to subside.
The MB concept is that a couple should spend at least 15 hours a week in this one-on-one type activity. When a marriage is going through rough times 20-30 hours a week might be necessary. Only after this time is filled together, is there time for activities with other friends and separate activities.<p>In the book "His Needs, Her Needs" Dr. Harley talks about how marital discord is the result of partners not meeting each others most important emotional needs over a long period of time. To rebuild the marriage, both partners need to start meeting each other's needs again. The needs he lists are affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation, recreational companionship, financial support, physical attractiveness, honesty and openness, domestic support, family commitment and admiration. There is an 'Emotional Needs Questionnaire'. Both spouses fill it out and rank the order of their needs. Then they tell each other how they want those needs met. This is the very basis for the MB concept of rebuilding a marriage. <p>Hope this helps.<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Wow !!! ZORWEB ,you are allot of help. I totally appreciate your insight. I will respond later to your questions ,as I am off to work.I just wanted to say thanks...J