Not sure of etiquette here on MB. Started new topic to get advice quick. See my other posts below for BG. Kids are away for weekend and WW said we "might be able to talk" on Sun. Some things I know:
. WW hasn't seen OM since 12/20 (i figure she saw him 12/6 12/12-12/20)
. I think WW has cut back big time on e-mails to OM
. OM may be whining in e-mails about not seeing WW or getting her e-mails
. WW is still calling OM on phone (not sure how much)and I think they are IM'ing
I have received much conflicting advice on MB. Some say confront her about stopping A - stand up like a MAN-she's showing you no respect. Others say keep Plan A'ing. Don't force her to choose.
I thought on SUN I would present 4 options with my thoughts on each in paren:<p>1) stay the same-WW sneaking around-me knowing some, but not all-don't ask/don't tell-WW vacillating - no decision necessary (no good since it leaves marriage in total limbo-we can't reconcile until OM is out of picture)<p>2) bring it into open-WW can come and go as she pleases-but she must tell me everything she does
(no good since it would be too painful for me and I would be rewarding her A)<p>3) separation - I would leave home- WW can then do whatever she wants-I won't be around to stop her (no good- why should I leave? Also, kids might find out everything if OM starts coming around) or WW would leave (no good- no one to take care of kids-plus kids would then find out everything)<p>4) WW gives up OM -we work SAA and try to reconcile (best option but is it wishful thinking? Not sure if WW wants this- don't want to force it on her)<p>So, don't have much choice here do I? Seems like best bet is to tell her that despite what she says, I know A is deep, love is involved, OM wants WW to leave me, but I won't force WW to make a choice. I'll just keep Plan A'ing for a time period (not sure how long) and see what happens. OM may be one to crack, since he seems to be cracking already after 3 wks. Plus, as long as WW is home, she can see me Plan A'ing.<p>Maybe Sunday talk should not even focus on options and just try to clear the air about why A happened and what I can do to meet her EN's and make her truly happy.<p>Advice, anyone. Thanks?<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Boppo57 ]</p>

Boppo57,
IMVHO, you say nothing ...but listen and listen to her and you may even want to record the conversation so that you could go back to it and make a note. Also do not bring up anything unless she starts it.<p>When W says the fact, you appologize to her and do your promise plan A'ng. When W says the excuse or justification of A, you just say that you do not agree with it and you do not want to talk about it at this point since you want to get all of her point of view of what went wrong.<p>Now about your line of thinking
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>[b]1) stay the same-WW sneaking around-me knowing some, but not all-don't ask/don't tell-WW vacillating - no decision necessary (no good since it leaves marriage in total limbo-we can't reconcile until OM is out of picture)[/qb]<hr></blockquote>
This is plan A all about, you leave it alone, show your changes. Nothing you could do right now in your M as OM still in the picture. Just grep the seat handle and ride the 'coaster and thinking about ADD if you need them.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>2) bring it into open-WW can come and go as she pleases-but she must tell me everything she does
(no good since it would be too painful for me and I would be rewarding her A)</strong><hr></blockquote>
You answer your own ... it will drain you LB$ in no time. Also WS will lie to their teeth.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>3) separation - I would leave home- WW can then do whatever she wants-I won't be around to stop her (no good- why should I leave? Also, kids might find out everything if OM starts coming around) or WW would leave (no good- no one to take care of kids-plus kids would then find out everything)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Never leave the house for several reason and one biggie one is child custody !!!. Second is you could show your changes by showing your interaction w/ your kid ... some people call it plan A'ng their kid. Third, it is adviceable to stay w/ WW so that you could show more about your actions in plan A. And more ....<p>Note: your kid might already know it. My kids are the one gave me a hint many months before D-day.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>4) WW gives up OM -we work SAA and try to reconcile (best option but is it wishful thinking? Not sure if WW wants this- don't want to force it on her)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wishfull thinking but keep praying for it. Asks for divine intervention.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>So, don't have much choice here do I? Seems like best bet is to tell her that despite what she says, I know A is deep, love is involved, OM wants WW to leave me, but I won't force WW to make a choice. I'll just keep Plan A'ing for a time period (not sure how long) and see what happens. OM may be one to crack, since he seems to be cracking already after 3 wks. Plus, as long as WW is home, she can see me Plan A'ing.<hr></blockquote></strong>
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , let OM LB'ed. You need to state that you do not support her behavior but willing to wait and hope if she decides to be back you are still be here.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Maybe Sunday talk should not even focus on options and just try to clear the air about why A happened and what I can do to meet her EN's and make her truly happy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You have to be carefull in admitting all the fault, 50% is hers and 50% is yours creating unhappy environment but 100% hers to choose A.<p>
Keep us posted ... good luck

Boppo,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Maybe Sunday talk should not even focus on options and just try to clear the air about why A happened and what I can do to meet her EN's and make her truly happy. <hr></blockquote><p>EXACTLY!! This is what you should do. Try not to be the instigator of any topic...if she asks about the car, talk only about the car. Don't stray into conversations about the gas station, or the lawn mower, or the garage.... Get the picture? If she asks about your feelings, tell her only about that, don't digress into options or anything. Often this can be seen as controlling behavior (you leading the conversation to what YOU want to talk about).<p>Remember, your W is from Venus. Don't try to FIX anything (that's what your options are geared toward), you need to just listen and be supportive.<p>I wholeheartedly agree with Redhat on the not leaving the home. If you do leave, your already miniscule chances for child custody only get smaller.<p>Know that this is NOT a short road. Many here have been going on for months or years. Don't expect any sudden realization by your W that YOU'RE what she wants.<p>You need to take responsibility for YOUR actions only. Your W may hold resentment towards you for "forcing" her to make the decision to have an A....this is absolutely not the case. That's something that she needs to bear alone. You can tell her that you understand her resentment, and you're sorry for your part in the marital problems before the A, but that you had NO part in her decision to have the A. If you had, maybe you'd have understood where your problems were leading and you could have begun the Plan A beforehand, maybe avoiding this whole mess.<p>Take care,
Kev

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have received much conflicting advice on MB. Some say confront her about stopping A - stand up like a MAN-she's showing you no respect. Others say keep Plan A'ing. Don't force her to choose. <hr></blockquote><p>boppo...I was concerned with the conflicting advice you got on one thread... the poster is new to MB and may not be famiiiar with the concepts here...<p>redhat and kevco have given you some excellent strategies...<p>let me just reiterate that this will NOT get fixed overnight and will seem very unfair to you... some may ask you why you are willing to be a doormat... just remember you are in IT, not them and only you can decide what is right for you...<p>when I started posting in May, I remember a veteran MBer posing the question... would you be willing to be a doormat for $1 million? in other words, what would you do for the restoration of your marriage? <p>I never thought I would make it through the summer, my WH leaving (even if just a month), Thanksgiving, Christmas... but you DO...<p>Just keep in mind that plan A is about YOU not to manipulate spouse back to marriage... You can only control you...<p>finally, have really low expectations of your WW... it will often be three steps forward and one or two back... keep in the Spirit and feel blessed for any good interactions that you do have...<p>It is not the destination that is important... it is the journey.<p>Cali

Cali- thanks for your words. They really have lifted me up, as have most of what I've read here. You know, I have often felt that the problems in my marriage were because all I cared about was ME, that I didn't give but just took to please ME. Yet Plan A seems to be about improving ME, to the ultimate benefit of those around me. I like that philospohy. Ultimately, worse case scenario, I lose my wife but end up with a better me. But I hope that is the last time I consider that scenarion.<p>God Bless all and I'll let you know what happens.