why would a man say that he loves his wife and yet not want to spend much time with her and not want to go out with her?<p>He's read the MB material and we have agreed to it. Yet our time together is much less then the 15 hrs per week. When I ask him why, his answer is that he too is not happy with the amount of time we spend. But he just cannot seem to pry himself away from the computer and computer games.<p>We started out pretty much following the MB guidelines in May but the together time is dwindling. <p>I do not believe he is having an affair. I've asked him out, asked him to do things with me, but he often backs out. The only time I hear from him during the day is when I call him. I've told him, in the most non-lb way I can find that I am very hurt and extremely lonely. He is very aware of the damage this does to a relationship.<p>Right now I'd bet we spend about 2 hours a week together. The rest of the time is just interacting over the kids and other daily things. He's usually on his computer until midnight or 1 am.<p>Can someone tell me what might be going on? We go over the LB and EN material every week or two. I tell him that while he does do some nice things for me, he is not meeting my needs for conversation, recreational time, and affection. He always looks so sad and at first used to say he'd do better. Now he just says that he does not know why he cannot get motivated to do these things.<p>Tonight he told me that his needs in these areas are not being met either. But I cannot meet them if he will not even be with me. He never voices any complaints about anything.<p>My interpretation is that a person does what they want to do. If he wanted to spend time with me he would. I'm clearly arriving at a point where I don't even want to tell him how I feel and what I want anymore because I feel like I'm begging for his attention. I feel like I'm nagging. My ego is shot. I just want to crawl into a hole ahd disappear.<p>[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: MyLife ]</p>

MyLife --<p>I'm sorry to read your sad and puzzled post. Your pain and frustration are clearly evident. I don't have any great answers for you but I want you to know that you are heard and certainly understood. What's going on here? C'mon, MB'ers, let's put our heads together and help... <p>Two of your statements struck chords with me. First, you said "he never voices complaints about anything." Unfortunately, from my situation, I've learned that the absence of complaints does not mean that everything is fine. It's very possible to go along normally and have no idea that things aren't fine with a partner simply because the partner won't say anything or make their needs known. My W now says that she's been unhappy "for years," but there were no outward signs and no complaints. How can you fix something if you have no idea that it's broken? <p>Second (related to the first), you say that you are "clearly arriving at a point where I don't even want to tell him how I feel and what I want anymore." It's the same problem in reverse. You have to make your needs known--for you! It's your responsibility to make certain that you communicate what you need to him and that uniquivocally you know that you are heard and understood. Then if he ignores those needs, you at least know better where you stand. I think couples have to--have to--express themselves in these areas. It's not nagging, it's basic communication.<p>I hear you that your ego is shot--whose wouldn't be. Your H's hours spent on the computer subtract from the hours you could/should be spending together. What is he getting from the computer that he's not getting being and interacting with you? He may be "aware of the damage this does to a relationship" but he's either ignoring it or minimizing it, either path = trouble and discontent.<p>Please post again and let us know how you're doing. We're here for you and we do care...<p>Ammon

I just wanted to tell you that this is where my H & I were for many months if not longer before he finally did have an A. I am beginning to see that it started when our son was diagnosed in utero with a "disability" (over 2 years ago). I reached out to my husband for support and comfort and got a *pat* *pat* on the back, everything will be OK (he burried his fears indide himself). Then after our son was born and the diagnosis was a lot more uncertain and very scary for two kids like us, I felt even more withdrawal from him & withdrew myself. Put everything into my son and trying to figure out how to cope while doing everything I could for him (S). All I got from H was more patting on the back and shallow "It will be OK"s. So fast forward a year and a half...we are still meeting some needs, but not very often, H is still not taking any responsibilty for things unless I MAKE him, we both resent eachother, we are very sleep deprived, blah blah, I decide to quit work to "devote" time to my S, so now we have financial strain as well. I freelance, but can only do it when my H is home so he can watch S. So we never see eachother. Then in October (5 mos from when I quit) I have a nervous breakdown, sounds much like you. I realize everything is wrong, were not connecting, heck we're not even in the same book much less on the same page. We start counseling, but the friendship that leeds to the PA has already begun (WH started new position when I quit due to dept being closed, OW was coworker there), there's a quick PA, and then HOLY SH**, what the h*ll am I doing (on WH's part)and here we are now.<p>What I'm saying is you need to be proactive and not let yourself withdraw...sit in there and take an interest in his games, read a book next to him, whatever it takes to start out slow. Because he sounds like he is already withdrawn and if you withdraw too, then there is no one left to fight for you guys and BAM.<p>I plan A'd my H starting after thanksgiving (2 weeks after the PA started though I didn't "know" this at the time). I decided to stop moping nonstop and wondering why he was so unhappy. I didn't know about this site or what plan A was, but basically what I was doing was cutting the anger and resentment out completely. When he got home from work, I greeted him at the door and showed how excited I was to see him and how much I missed him instead of with the resentment I felt because I didn't see him or hear from him all day. Make sense? I played computer with him instead of yelling at him about it. I started putting our son to bed earlier, even just to cuddle up next to H and read a book on the couch while he watched football. I learned how to relax instead of trying to get everything done all of the time. Eventually conversations began, more physical contact, you name it. He ended PA the first week of December. I knew something was different because I felt so much more response from him and December was wonderful....well until official dday on Dec 26, which downright sucked.<p>We are rebuilding our M, going to counselling, both of us will also begin individual counselling soon. WH is ready to do anything and to find out why he can't communicate his disappointment, needs, fears etc. He is doing better, but still needs A LOT of coaxing. We know for a fact that if he doesn't figure this out, then it is over for us, and that is scary. We love eachother very much, but his inability to communicate kills us. He acts on fear and insecurity instead of talking about it.<p>So long story short...work it the best way you can...take the resentment and anger out of your words and actions and you may be surprised.

Ammon<p>Thanks for your reply. You are right… I cannot stop communicating because if I do, it’s over. I will continue to communicate with my H and work on drawing him out. You know what they say… If you do the same old thing, you’ll get the same results. Well, I obviously need to new approach. <p>“It's not nagging, it's basic communication.” Yep.. you are right. It just gets tiresome when there are no results. I’m starting to wonder if nagging is not really communications that the listener does not want to hear or deal with.<p>“What is he getting from the computer that he's not getting being and interacting with you?” I believe it’s a safe place to go to get away from the world. He goes there and shuts out everyone and everything. I think an atom bomb could go off next to him when he’s on the computer and he’d never hear it. He says that he feels he is zoning out as a way to avoid facing some big problems. I handle them by being proactive and solving them. <p>He deals with them by zoning out. Last year he dealt with them by both zoning out, and having several brief affairs. He and I have discussed this. We are both aware of what he is doing. So the upshot of it is that he is here zoning out and I’m left to handle all the problems without any support from him. Well, other then an occasional ‘atta girl’.<p>‘He may be "aware of the damage this does to a relationship" but he's either ignoring it or minimizing it, either path = trouble and discontent.’ He is both ignoring and minimizing the damage this is doing to our relationship. I think he feels I’ll always be here not matter what. After all, I did not even leave when I found out about his affairs. So I guess he thinks I’ll always be here no matter what he does or does not do.

WeRtrying,<p>Your post was very helpful. You gave me several ideas of things I can do differently. His computer is in a room off our garage, very much out of the family living area and bedrooms. So I tend to stay out of there. It’s also a little cramped, with no room for a chair next to him. But I will see if I can rig something up to at least be with him on some level.<p>“Resent” Now there is a word that I am starting to feel. I hate feeling that way and am fighting it with all I have. If I do withdraw our relationship is doomed. I have been very proactive in so many ways in this relationship. <p>Looking through your list of things.
Moping… I work very hard to never do this. I know I’m all pissy and whinny here but better here then to him. I’m here trying to get it out of my system so that I don’t love bust.
Wondering why he is so unhappy… he says he’s never been unhappy in our relationship. But I do wonder why he has to escape it. I know it’s a coping mechanism, but it’s still not easy to deal with. Sometimes I think that he is holding back some of himself so that he cannot be hurt.
anger and resentment – the only time I’ve ever felt or shown this is when I found out about the affairs. And I was careful not to love bust, but instead to work through the feelings and issues before talking to him. But right now these are cropping up very strong. I’m trying very hard to resolve it in myself and not take it out on him.
Yelling.. I have never yelled at him (well except on d-day but I think that is excusable.) And he has never yelled at me. This does not mean that we are in a passionless or emotionally flat relationship either. Neither of us are yellers and yelling scares me.
“I played computer with him instead of yelling at him about it.” Again I don’t yell. Instead I’ll ask if he’s like to go for a walk, or go ‘upstairs’, or please come to bed with me. If he comes out of his zone enough to hear me, he says yes and usually never comes.
Your idea of joining him at computer games is a good one. Though the games he plays are all one-player games so I’d end up just sitting and watching him play. Don’t know how long I can take that. Reading while he is playing is a good idea.
Watching football & movies with him… I already do that. He seldom does either.
I will look at our life styles and see how I can take your ideas and use them here. You have a very valid point of going slowly to grow more physical and emotional connection.<p>Thanks<p>ML

Good luck with all of your efforts! I forgot to add that I started taking care of myself, not for him, but for me. I started dressing better, wearin makeup again, cut my hair, style it, dyed it a 'brighter' color, I joined a gym & work out from 6am to 7am, I am still working on the "eating better" part & doing hobbies that I enjoy. H says that as I started to become more self confident that it made HIM feel good. And the more self confident I felt, the easier it was to let go of the resentment and anger.<p>Oh, as for the yelling, I guess I should have said "nagged." I don't yell either, except for on dday when I kept screaming "You had your d*ck in another woman" over and over again! I was pretty (expectedly) out of control on that night.<p>Again, good luck!

weRtrying<p>Oh a great reminder to take better care of myself.. between full time job, three kids (one in hospital), and an ailing father and these marital issues; I do tend to forget about me. <p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] thanks