MB'ers... Quick update, then some questions...<p>Okay, WW seemed to be coming out of the fog a bit a week or so ago - actually admitted to many things, such as being angry, hoping that I'd make the decision for her, etc. As time has gone on, however, she's become angry, bitter and resentful again, as much as I've ever seen her.<p>Today, she says that she simply doesn't want to be married - to anyone. She hates everyone and everything. She says she doesn't trust me or OM [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . I think her and OM's relationship is already questionable - but the underlying issue may no longer be about her and him.<p>I think her main issue right now is simply that she's harboured all this resentment towards me for such a long time, she's finding it impossible to let go of it. She simply doesn't love me, yet is unwilling to move out, etc.<p>She and I had a joint MC session today. Was tough. WW at the end said she thinks that if her feelings haven't changed by the time she gets back from Europe in late February, she will probably move out to be alone. MC tried to "negotiate" that we won't do anything like separate until after she gets back. I felt a bit trapped by this. I feel it's my right to Plan B, not some kind of "arrangement" where WW goes off to "find herself" for 6 months, expecting to have contact with me, allowing me to feel pain on an on-going basis. No way. My love for her is nearly gone - I need Plan B, or there will honestly be no hope.<p>I'm sending an e-mail to MC today to let her know that WW and I talked after the session. That we agreed neither of us should feel bound to MC's "suggestion".<p>So... I think it's close to Plan B time. I'm at the end of my rope. Rather than lose control over the situation and let WW be the one to dictate the time, place and terms of separation, I want to. End of the month will have been 5 months of this.<p>Anyhow, some questions:<p>What do you say when WS says, "You'll never look at me the same way again."<p>One more possibility... that if things with OM did go south just recently, she could be in withdrawal... possible? Is there any practical way to distinguish it from the "standard fog" of an active A?

What do you say when WS says, "You'll never look at me the same way again."
A:"Yes, it won't be the same. I will look at you with wiser eyes, with care and love to protect our M and to create a fullfilling M [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ."<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>One more possibility... that if things with OM did go south just recently, she could be in withdrawal... possible? Is there any practical way to distinguish it from the "standard fog" of an active A?</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is when snooping is very usefull. Notice her actions not her words.

RE: What do you say when WS says, "You'll never look at me the same way again."<p>I like what Redhat suggested. Here is a slightly different take. "Neither of us will ever look at each other the same. This experience has changed us, made us wiser. Hopefully we will not take each other for granted again. But I will still love you."<p>RE: One more possibility... that if things with OM did go south just recently, she could be in withdrawal... possible? Is there any practical way to distinguish it from the "standard fog" of an active A?<p>It's very hard to second guess a WS. And I don't think it really matters if things went south and she is in withdrawl or she is in a 'standard fog'. Both are not very condusive to marriage building and will take time to over come.

redhat - the snooping thing... I've found very little to indicate that WW and OM actually communicate that much, at least by phone or e-mail! Kind of took me by surprise, and makes me wonder about the state of things. Given that today she said that she doesn't trust me or OM... makes me wonder. In terms of her communications with her girlfriend who she confides in - precious little info, sadly - mostly just her girlfriend asking her how she's doing.<p>zorweb - funny thing is these things to say to her are close to other things I've said to her - what's the response? something usually with a negative spin on it somehow. But I keep plugging away in my Plan A... on its last legs now... the Giver has nearly snapped, and Taker is starting to tell me to wise-up.<p>I must say, that MC session today really demonstrated the depth of her insanity. MC was trying to "hold it together", but WW was really in classic fog-form today. Oh well. I talked about my own personal growth, etc. - WW could only talk about her resentment of the past, how thoughtless I am, how the letters I've been writing her piss her off, how she's going to be really busy with work for a while and can't fill any of my needs, etc.<p>So what's my answer? Going out whale watching and hiking with a group of folks I haven't met before. Invited WW, but she declined - too much work. Her loss. Does demonstrate my willingness to move on and do things without her - something for her to think about. Continuing to build a social base to draw on in the future.

J.R. - ditto Z and redhat, although I wouldn't put any effort into active snooping until she claims it's over and you suspect it's not.<p>I agree with your Plan B logic. Only you can know when it's time. Does your MC understand Plan B?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>I think her and OM's relationship is already questionable - but the underlying issue may no longer be about her and him.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>J.R. - the underlying issue was NEVER about her and OM. OM was just a symptom of the deeper things you've already identified. I believe you understand this subtlety, but many BSs are reluctant to see it, wanting to focus only on the affair.<p>I still think you're doing well. Stay the course and don't take anything personally. Feel confident knowing you're on the moral high ground but you're willing to help her when she realizes you can.<p>WAT<p>[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>