I've been waffling about what to do about this situation and thought I'd come to y'all to see what you have to say.<p>My H and I have a friend (we will call him G) who my H met on the internet but we have met in real life. G is a family man, married 10+ years, two beautiful kids and his was the only voice of reason when My H had his affair three years ago.<p>Now the tables have turned. G has done almost to the letter what my H did. He started chatting online with a single woman and you guessed it...EA. Which we have discovered may soon become a PA. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My H, bless him, has told G how stupid he is being and how difficult the last three years have been. How I still have nightmares about what happened. How it changed *us* forever...in some ways for the better but some have not been so desirable. G doesn't want to hear it. Total fog.<p>My dilemma is that since we know what's going on, should we tell his wife? I have never met her since they live about 60+ mins away from us and usually G just comes to visit on his own for an afternoon. I remember being *very* angry that altho G told my H to stop being a fool, G never actually contacted me to give me a heads up until the poop had already hit the fan. <p>Since we know that a meeting is in the works within the next few months I am feeling like I should do something. I just don't know what. My H wants to do something too but he doesn't want it traced back to us. She doesn't use the computer much so an anonymous email wouldn't work and I don't even know her email addy anyway.<p>I'm just sick over the fact G is tearing up his family. His wife and kids deserve better treament. I know a lot of how I'm feeling is reaction to such similar circumstances of my H's A and I don't like it at all. I'm having nightmares again after months of not thinking about it much at all. <p>So...anybody got any suggestions? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

You would really tell his wife anonymously? You would give such potentially horrible news anonymously? No, no, no!! If you're going to pick up this mantle and tell her all of these horrible things... at least have the decency to do it the right way. <p>Tell her everything, if you somehow feel that it's you and your husband's place to intrude into this marriage...but do so knowing that they will probably BOTH turn against you and your husband if they stay together. I'm serious here...G undoubtedly told your H what he told him in the strictest confidence (which means that by telling you, your H has already stabbed him in the back). A confidence is a confidence. <p>His wife deserves to know...but G will deserve a serious and heartfelt apology from both of you for betraying his trust. If you and your H aren't prepared to give it, to see that even though it's for the right reasons, you'll be doing him wrong and meddling in his life...then you may as well kiss your friendship with G good-bye.

Yes you tell, this comes up all the time, it is a civic duty, anyone who doesn't tell becomes a co-conspirator and fully responsible for the damage done to the bs. Why would you choose to be part of a dirty little secret...in fact if they have not met, and you keep silent, and they do meet, I don't know how you can live with yourself.<p>ttf....You would really tell his wife anonymously? You would give such potentially horrible news anonymously? No, no, no!! If you're going to pick up this mantle and tell her all of these horrible things... at least have the decency to do it the right way.<p>snl..That is ideal, stand up and be counted...but annonymously is far better than not at all, and is acceptable.

ttf...if you somehow feel that it's you and your husband's place to intrude into this marriage...<p>snl..Is not an intrusion, this is a public health issue, and everyone has an obligation to intrude,it is the price we pay for a civilized society, and how we protect each other.<p>ttf...but do so knowing that they will probably BOTH turn against you and your husband if they stay together. I'm serious here...G undoubtedly told your H what he told him in the strictest confidence (which means that by telling you, your H has already stabbed him in the back). A confidence is a confidence. <p>snl...Possible, and totally irrelevant, anything immoral, illeagle cannot enjoy the cloak of confidence, the real question is why would one value freindship more than truth, honest, and ethics...he should thank him/her for telling, and if not...ih well.<p>ttf...His wife deserves to know...<p>snl....absolutely, she is the only one who counts at this point.<p>ttf...but G will deserve a serious and heartfelt apology from both of you for betraying his trust.<p>snl...He deserves nothing but tough love, and a chance to do the right thing.<p>ttf...you'll be doing him wrong and meddling in his life...then you may as well kiss your friendship with G good-bye<p>snl...not doing him a wrong, doing him a favor, and is not meddling, it is being your brother/sister's keeper.

I'd tell anonymously, but give enough details that the wife can confirm it for herself. Also send along SAA, if you can, or at least the location of this web site. You could send a snail mail letter.<p>Rose Red

I'd would be willing to do it Anon. Most important step is telling like other posters noted. If you know where he works you might be able to get a letterhead or logo envelope and make it look like it came from someone in his office if you are truly concerned about G tracing it back to you. there might be others that he ahs told this to.

It will more than likely come out that you were the ones that told her this information, anonymously or not. If you insist on doing this...at least be there for them as much as you can. Don't do it anonymously...because you aren't exactly being your "brother's keeper" by stabbing them in the back and deserting them.<p>IMHO the trust that friends bestow on each other is hardly irrelevant...and someone who listens to my confidences, not to help me or support me, but to judge me and "gather information" isn't my friend at all. <p>He will eventually deserve your heartfelt apology if you do this to him...you have to realize that you will be over-complicating the situation. You will take away his chance to tell her the truth on his own. Such a wonderful gift that would be...only to be taken away forever, by you. Instead of ratting him out...why not support him, and encourage him to do the right thing? Why not show him that you believe he can do it? Why not get genuinely involved and be true friends to these people instead of firing shots from the sidelines? <p>If your guidance and support doesn't dissuade him...at that point, tell him that if he doesn't stop what he's doing, you will feel obligated to let his wife know the state of things. If he's already gotten to that point with you, if your true and loving guidance was all for naught...tell him that you'll feel compelled to let his wife know what's going on to protect herself (for health reasons and others) *unless* he is willing to end the affair and tell his wife himself.<p>Be prepared for the fallout...a betrayal is a betrayal...he's betraying his wife...but you'll be betraying him by betraying his trust.<p>A note to SnL: I would prefer it if you could state your stance without the necessity of dissecting my opinions piece by piece...if I ever desire such particular attention, I'll be sure to request it from you. Thank you very much [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

Thanks for all the feedback. You all brought up good points.<p>My H and I have been very honest with G about how we feel about this whole thing. AS for my H telling me about the A...that's not how it happened. We both figured out what was going on when G came to visit before Christmas and the OW's name came up in conversation way too regularly. He also stayed here that night. He used the excuse that it was too late to drive back. He then proceeded to call "his wife" (that's what he told me) and talk for 7 hours. My BS radar went bonkers and we confronted him. We also let him know that using us as a front to contact the OW was NOT ok.<p>Anyway...I have thought about the "G, you have to tell your wife what is going on within x amount of time or we will" tactic but my H is against it. Like I stated before, we have never met Mrs. G so the situation is really awkward. I know how hard it was for me to find out and then have my H deny it until I said I have the proof. I wish G would just tell his wife but since I don't think anyone in their local RL circle of friends knows what is going on the odds are he will try to keep it a secret. <p>Its just so difficult sitting here knowing that the train wreck is coming. In the light of what I've said here and other extinuating circumstances, as much as I despise it, we probably will not say anything but offer as much support as we can once the truth does come to light. I am just praying with all the strength I have that the truth comes to light *before* they meet and it becomes a PA. <p>Thanks again for your insights.

I agree with the first hald of TTF's first reply to you. You SHOULD tell her, and you should do it in person. I think she's more likely to take it seriously if you have the guts to do it that way.<p>About the breaking of any confidences, I think any transgression in that area by you is FAR outweighed by the confidence that G is breaking with his W and with God.<p>TTF MIGHT be correct about the loss of the friendship. But when/if G figures out what a huge mistake he's making, he'll know that you were TRUE friends. Sure, it's easy to just go along and to look the other way, but would you really like friends like that? Or would you like the kind of friends that will stand up and point out when you're a little off center? #2 methinks.<p>It'll be hard, but it IS the right thing to do.<p>Kev

All I was saying re: the friendship is that VL and their H will need to be ready to see that G will be hurt and angry by their betrayal of him, if and when they told his wife. Saying "well I did this, but YOU did this" won't make any difference at all to G...a mindset like that will only be invalidating his feelings, and will solve nothing. He'll have a right to his feelings, and he WILL deserve an apology, because although he's having this affair, he's not responsible for how YOU are dealing with the situation. The decision to betray him would be entirely your own, and would in no way be his fault or responsibility. Justifications are just ways in which we avoid trying to take responsibility for what we've done. <p>If you take responsibility for the hurt you would be causing him AND his wife (whether you think you'd be "justified" [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] or not)...then and only then could you ever possibly salvage this friendship after such a huge betrayal.<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

If you discovered that someone was slowly poisoning his spouse, what would be your moral obligation? Would you be betraying your friend and owe him an apology for saving his spouse's life?<p>Adultery is at best a reckless disregard for another human being's spirit, just as driving while impaired is a reckless disregard for life and limb, and at worst it is attempted murder of a person's spirit.<p>IMO, when you step into the arena of betrayal, you'd better be ready to take yours.<p>Showing compassion for a victim of adultery has nothing to do with betraying a betrayer. Reminds me of the stories of burglars who get hurt when they break into someone's home and then sue the innocent homeowner for damages.<p>When G or any other WS chooses to go down that road, he is the one responsible for any and all betrayal of everyone involved, including himself, and has only himself to blame.<p>Sorry, TTF, but I have to part company with you on this one.

Conqueror,<p>That's fine [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You don't all have to agree with me (and isn't it a good thing?) [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I speak from my own experience...although my friends didn't really "rat me out"...but the situation was similar.<p>I confessed to my affair entirely on my own. Throughout the time that the affair was going on I had been confiding in my (former) best friend. She never acted in a supportive fashion, just did the whole "stop that, that's wrong you idiot" bit and then quickly lost interest altogether when she wasn't getting through to me (because judgements and preaching are the last thing that'll ever get through to a WS still in the affair).<p>Anyway...this friend chose to believe that my coming back to the relationship was insincere. She had already been telling her husband everything that I had been telling her for pretty much the entire time, but this is the point where she decided to bring in a third person, my SO's brother. She told them any and every little thing I had ever told her, and presented it to them as evidence that I wasn't really in love with my SO or wanting my relationship to work out (which begs the question...why would I have confessed and come back at all?). They thought I was "biding time"...even after I had told my friend that the affair was over, and I wanted to "come home". She had ceased to listen to me totally by then, assuming that she knew my relationship better than I did. <p>The three of them sat down with my SO and had an "intervention", as it were, where they told my SO all of these things in an attempt to make him not want to salvage our relationship. Fortunately I had told him these things myself prior to their little "get together"...or who knows what would have happened. I was absolutely shellshocked when my SO came home from their place...I truly had no idea that they had been conspiring against me in such a way. <p>These people never gave me any support, and never even considered that helping my esteem or trying to give me some encouragement would have been so much more productive than what they did. They were two-faced (my former best friend, especially)...their friendship to me had been a total, two-faced lie for many months. Looking back now...it's so saddening to think about how, if any of them had truly taken an interest in a lonely, hurting person...how much differently things might have happened.<p>Thank god I eventually found the strength to confess the affair and do the right thing before I had any thoughts that my friend would betray me like she did. Knowing what they were about after the confession, instead of getting "caught" in this situation during the affair, is a big relief. It's scary to think about what might have happened...I confessed and ended the affair, without any pressure or input from them (as my friend seemed to have given up trying to talk to me about it months ago...she just listened, and took notes...should have used a tape recorder [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] ). I'm sure in their minds they had already been cooking up some plan to tell him without even trying to talk to me...fortunately it never came to that.<p>With friends like these...who need enemies. True friends would have taken a genuine effort in trying to help both of us. Instead they chose to sit on the sidelines and involve themselves without getting involved. I only advocate getting truly involved and truly helping these people instead of the "not wanting to get hands dirty but not wanting to let this wrong go unpunished" mess.<p>As a side note...the betrayal from this situation was a real and true feeling...they hurt me terribly, terribly...and to this day, they haven't been the least bit sorry for doing it (thinking that their point of view, and their actions, were "justified"). I may as well be dead to them, as they've admitted that they care nothing for me now (which, as it goes without saying, if more than fine with me). The funny thing, though, is that they hate my SO now, too...for not "taking their side" and dumping me. They're such good "friends" that they're perfectly happy to have nothing to do with either of us because we won't do what they think we should do. Their actions were hurtful, destructive, and short-sighted and an apology is the least of what they owe both my SO and myself.<p>P.S. -- NO, I'm not pushing responsibility for the affair off onto anyone, and I would appreciate it if this rant isn't taken that way. I'm responsible for what I've done...and they need to be responsible for what they've done.<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

Well, I agree with you, TTF, on that particular twist. Your friend going to a third party and THEN going to your SO was pretty lame and obscenely rude. I guess if I ever was in such a position, I would first offer to be there with my friend as a support system while SHE told her SO. If she refused, my second choice would be to tell her SO in her presence even if I had to do it without her permission, but I would tell her that I was going to do it and why I felt I had to. They might both hate me, but I at least could sleep at night.<p>I would NEVER tell some outsider and force that on the couple! I think it is justifiable to reveal a confidence to a friend's spouse when it ultimately is in the friend's best interest because when someone is part of a couple everything they do affects their partner. But there is no justification for revealing a confidence to some random relative or any other person--they do not have the right to that information as the betrayed does.

Veteran, here's my two cents: I'd tell G that I plan to call his wife in five days and tell her. He can tell her himself before then, or he can deal with it after. But in either case, five days and I'm calling.<p>I speak as a betrayed spouse who was completely without a clue about my husband's affair until the other woman's adult daughter called me. One of my most enduring injuries is how stupid it made me feel that my husband was carrying on and I no idea-- no opportunity to decide what would happen in MY marriage, to MY life. I know that if I ever learn of any of my friends having or contemplating an affair, I'd tip off the spouse at my first opportunity.

VeteranLurker..<p>Did you and your h buy and read any of the books listed here on the site..SAA,His Needs/Her Needs?
If so you could loan them or even give them to G..
and let him read the information himself..or even send him a link to this site..and he would be well informed before he goes any further..