Hello,<p>There has been quite a bit out there regarding single affairs but not to much about multiple. If anyone has insight or words of wisdom it will be greatly appreciated.<p>I'm the betrayer in our marriage (1 sexual when dating and 14 sexual after marriage & a dozen kissing incidents after marriage) all committed during a 6 year period. D-day was over two months ago which was initiated by the last affair calling my wife.<p>She was ready (a few weeks after) to forgive and rebuild when it was just "one". When I admitted the rest, it's understandably a different story. What she's faced with now is to truly decide if it's worth letting one brick fall and recommit to working on us. 6 years of lies and betrayal has provided a very poor foundation for her to reflect on.<p>When asked why she thinks she should stay, it's because of the kids (3 yrs and 8 mos)and the possibility of being treated the way she finally deserves.<p>We're back together in our house with her knowing that she doesn't want to live the rest of her life the way things are now. We are both seeking counseling alone and joint.<p>If anyone has advice on how to handle/get through it - please respond.<p>Thanks

First: immediately make a doctor's appointment for each of you. Both you and your wife need to be tested for every STD in the book.<p>Second: start learning about sexual addiction. It is real and it is not a joke. There are books and websites and experts. <p>Third: try marriage counseling, either jointly or separately or both.<p>Fourth: keep reading and posting here. You will gain a lot of insight, and your wife, especially, will learn two very important things:<p>1) Your affairs were not her fault.
2) She is not alone.<p>Good luck.

psyco_b,<p>Thanks for the words. I have been tested. I just started to look at the sexual addiction sites on the web. It appears to be right on the nose. We have received marriage counseling and continuing to do so.<p>After speaking with my wife a few moments ago, she revealed that she is seriously thinking about divorce. She is concerned about getting over the past. That's the biggest hurdle. She feels that what has happened since D-day is too little too late.<p>Any other help is appreciated.

UPNORTH
Wow,,, what a revelation. What a long hard road to recovery you have. Psycho_B has great advice. If it has only been two months since contact you both may need to get retested for STDs in another 6 months also regardless of whether you are both together or not. At least give your wife that little bit of reassurance (hopefully) and do it willingly.
Get &#8220;SURVIVING AN AFFAIR&#8217; Read that together and work from there, filling out EN questionnaire. Be accountable EVERY minute to your wife. Plan A her to the hilt, if she decides to give you the opportunity to heal from this. This is not optional, if you want her to even begin to try trusting you again, you need to do this&#8230;..forever maybe&#8230;..a way of life.
In addition to finding out about sexual addictions, join one of those sex addiction groups where you can be accountable to another male person and it will help your wife to have corroboration (sp) to know that you are &#8220;coming clean and staying that way&#8221;.
Learn about LB-ing (love busting) and avoid it at all costs. Woo and date your wife. Help her out. (With a 3yo and 8month old, she has her hands full anyway&#8230;.you can use the man opportunities that having little children around provide to really show her that you do love her. ) Remember, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. I don&#8217;t want to be preachy here, but if you haven&#8217;t got a relationship with God, you need to get one as HE is the only one who can even begin to help you change your life and become the optimum person you can be, someone whom your wife would really want to stay with. That doesn&#8217;t mean any of this will be easy.
I can foresee the fallout as being tremendous. If your wife decides to give you the opportunity to make a fresh start with her, you are a lucky man. You probably can't even comprehend the pain and anxiety your wife is going through right now. Be patient...(I'm talking months and months here)
You are also to be commended for having the courage to come here and admit your mistakes. That&#8217;s the first step and a huge one. Come here often to vent instead of venting to your wife. <p>If your wife is willing, send her here as she needs someplace to vent and get info too.<p>DO NOT talk, chat, email or meet, (deal at all) with any women alone. Be accountable to someone and by having your wife or another male along, you decrease the temptation to "go there".
Mikkey

Mikkey,<p>Thanks for the response. Definitely some good insight that will be used.<p>The thing is, is that I'm not worried about her giving me another chance. We are both concerned as for what is needed for her to make the decision - if it's really worth it. I think those decisions are two independent variables.<p>She is sitting next to me on the couch as I'm typing so she is totally involved in the forum but doesn't feel comfortable doing the time and energy for these forums. She did say that it's safe to say that she couldn't ask for anything more out of a husband except for the past six years and the memories.<p>Three days after D-day I made the step to do whatever it takes to make our relationship work. It's been a slow and arduous process. We've learned quite a bit about each other that we really didn't know before. Since then I have been accountable for every minute and living the days as I should have been doing all along.<p>Since we got back to our house last week she is overwhelmed with the magnitude of what has really happened. Everything has settled and she's beginning to assess the damage/situation. That's where the trouble lies. Is it worth it to stay because of the past events? It's hard to isolate the incidents since there are more than you can count on two hands. That magnitude has overwhelmed her.<p>Is it worth it to stay with the father of her children, being treated as she needs to be while living with the past and worring about the future..?
or,
Is it worth it to leave - to enter another relationship and be treated like a queen with no bad memories with that man, to do the split nuclear family scenario and everything that comes with it?<p>Thanks for the ear (and eyes).

Hello UpNorth,<p>My xH is, I guess, what you would call a "serial cheater". Altho, my xH seems to get emotionally involved in addition to the PA. He has a PA with them first and then the EA follows most the time. <p>Is it worth it??? Well, it would have been after the second A. He and I spent nearly nine years together without a transgression and then KaBOOM, another A (#3). But I do have to say that my xH and I didn't know about the Marriage Builders principals back then. <p>So, here's what I think about your question, "Is it worth it?"<p>I believe if you still love and respect your wife, and she you. If you have courage and are brave enough to be brutally honest with one another and yourselves about the past and about what you NEED now from a marriage and a marriage partner, if you can find it in both your hearts to forgive each other and let go of the resentments .... then I'd say "YES", it's worth it.<p>If you are willing to do these things to recover and rebuild a new marriage, why in the world would you want to end this marriage only to start a new relationship that will most likely be fraught with the same issues. Why not fix yourselves in this relationship?<p>Hope I answered your question.<p>God Bless you and yours,
Jo

So, Up North, it is your W who is asking whether it is worth staying, not you? Ultimately, only she can say. She has just received the greatest shock of her life.<p>Here are some questions:
1. Does she love you?
2. Will you make permanent changes in your behavior-therapy,etc.
3. Can you stay the course of rebuilding her trust in you? This could literally take years of constant effort.
4. Can she stand the stress of learning to trust you again and live with you while you change?<p>The two of you can expect it to take at least a year for W to start to feel that there is hope for your M. In the meantime, she is going to experience the most painful emotions of her life. <p>For your children's sake, I hope you are both willing to try. Keep in mind that for her, the man she thought she knew and loved is gone. She will need time to mourn and grieve, and she has to try to build a relationship with the person she knows you now to be.<p>There is no room for a relapse here Up North. You've got a lot to prove. For the sake of your family, please seek professional help for yourself and don't do anything to cause her one second of doubt. You did the right thing to tell her the truth and to come here for help. That took courage.<p>We'd be glad to listen if your W wants to post. It's a bit intimidating at first. Then you become comfortable. UN's wife, you are going to need a lot of support. We are here for you.<p>Best wishes,
Estes

UP North, you said: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Is it worth it to stay with the father of her children, being treated as she needs to be while living with the past and worring about the future..?
or,
Is it worth it to leave - to enter another relationship and be treated like a queen with no bad memories with that man, to do the split nuclear family scenario and everything that comes with it? <hr></blockquote><p>
The trouble is, she may have "no bad memories with that man", but she will still be carrying baggage from this marriage. Just because she leaves you, doesn't mean she still doesn't have to deal with the aweful painful ramifications of what has occurred. It tain't that simple.<p>I concur with resiliant and Estes
Mikkey

Mrs. Up North,<p>This post breaks my heart - I soooo know what your situation feels like, the decisions to be made including the "is it worth it?" ones, how overwhelmed you feel now, the guilt and questions and regret, your lack of energy or initiative...<p>I think you could benefit (both of you) from reading my posts - not so much because of what I wrote, but because of the wonderful replies that I got. To give you a short rundown...my H has had multiple affairs, 1st D-day was 5-00, we separated for 2 months before I decided to try it again, he continued to talk sexually and make plans to meet many women (although I didn't know - thought we were in good recovery), found out about one of these women in July of 2001, separated again for a week, and then major D-day #2 12-14-01. We are separated now. You can get the whole lowdown from the post - "I'm a fool...help". He posts here also under the name "cajunky". You can definitely see both sides of the story. <p>I know that in those dizzying first few days after D-day what I longed for was direction, a plan. I am such a strong person normally, but suddenly I couldn't make even the most basic decisions. I didn't know about this place for a long time after 1st D-day. So here's my advice for a plan:<p>1. See an MD or NP and request antidepressants. You can't make decisions or think clearly about anything while you're in the grips of depression.
2. Read everything here before you decide if the marriage is recoverable or not. It's the best plan for happy marriage and marriage recovery that I've ever been aware of. It's ultimately a decision only you can make, regardless of what other people have done. (I used to HATE it when people told me that).
3. Read "Out of the Shadows" by Patrick Carnes (both of you). You'll see it referenced here often. It's a well known book about sexual addiction by a pioneer and leading authority in the field. It was this book that first made my WS admit that he had a sexual addiction. <p>While on the subject, know that the diagnosis does not mean that your husband is somehow not responsible for what he did or that he shouldn't face consequences. The classic analogy: we all know now and accept that alcoholism is a disease, but rather than lessening the penalties for drunk driving, we've actually stiffened them. If a drunk driver injures someone, no one would expect the injured person or their family to excuse it because they have an illness. <p>I really resented the fact that there was a "title" for the thing that had seemingly ruined my life - until I read "Out of the Shadows". It doesn't encourage you to excuse their behaviour, but it does go a longgggg way towards answering that unrelenting "WHY??????" question. <p>Your situation, as bad as it is, is IMO somewhat better than mine. I begged my H to tell me everything after 1st D-day, and he continued to lie about many, many things. I made many unbelievably painful discoveries. It was like D-day after D-day... I know it's horrible and overwhelming news, but if you really know the whole story, you have something to be thankful for even though that seems impossible right now. At least you can base your decisions on the truth. I would imagine, Up North, that if you've admitted to this much, that surely you've told your W everything. <p>Oh, I hurt for you and I would love to talk to you if you think it would be helpful. Although I've decided not to recover my marriage at this point, I won't encourage you to do the same. It's as much the lies as the multiple affairs that killed my marriage. I can certainly relate to your situation though - and sometimes that's really hard to find. Friends and family can't possibly know how you feel or what to say. <p>If you'd like to talk more privately, I'd be glad to send you my email address. <p>Good luck to both of you,
AB

UpNorth,<p> I am the BS in a M to a man who confessed to me (9-14-01) that he had had many A's during the entire course of our 15 year marriage. He confessed out of pain that he had for keeping this deception going for so long. His therapist says he has a low level sexual addiction and he is working on that now. I am in your wife's shoes, only a little further down the line. <p>I can also say that my H was wonderful in all other aspects during the years that we have been married. It has been very difficult to reconcile that picture with this new one that I now have in my head. The last several months have been very bad for me. Get her to someone who can prescribe antidepressants, they saved my sanity. Therapy for the both of you both separately and together would really be a big help, too. She is going to need an lot of help processing all the events, the lies and the deceit. She will probably feel like her life has been a lie, that's what I thought. It's a terrible place to be.<p>The other MBer's have given good advice, follow it. Perhaps when she has a bit more energy, she may find that getting on here is soothing for her soul.<p>The best advice that I can give is for her not to make any sudden decisions at this time. Take some time to work on herself, her feelings and time for her to see what you are willing to do for her. Waiting for awhile for the worst of the emotions to subside and she can think a little clearer would be good for her. I would be glad to be an email buddy to her if she ever desires, my email address is:<p>cckolyer1@aol.com<p>Tell her that she is in my thoughts and prayers for what she is going through. firefly10

Up North,
Sorry to hear of your situation. I myself was the one to have multiple affairs. I found the truth in God and turned it over to Him. I trust God in however it will turn out. God loves us, and there are times that are actions deserve what we get. I had a newborn when my wife found out. I admitted to all and told God that I was leaving it up to Him. We did go to counseling and I started to get involved in bible study and family counseling/rebuilding programs. All of this happened about 6years ago. My wife did love me and I her and we decided to try and make a go of it. Needless to say it has not been easy. There were many a tearful night. But honestly, through it all, it has brought us closer together than where we were before. I sometimes feel like I am walking on eggshells, and I deal with guilt feelings and wonder how I could have ever done this. But sometimes God allows us to reach the very bottom before bringing us out. I read the bible and pray often. <p>I pray and hope you all can work through the harsh realities this has brought on you and trust in God.

This is the wife, I have been reading all the replys. They are so helpful. I have been trying to find someone who has been in my situation, no two situations are alike, of course. It sounds like there are some that are similar to ours. I am beyond confused right now. I am torn between this man my husband has become and the man he was for 6 years before I found out about his "other life". I do believe that he has told me everything, although a part of me doubts him. For about a month, while everything was coming out slowly, I felt like I was continually being knocked down, just when I would pull myself together he would disclose more and I would say "alright, I definately can't handle this, I am done" Then I would rethink everything and decide to wait. Our two beautiful children influence this quite a bit. Another influence was the horrible fear of being single, at 29 with two young children. I know I shouldn't stay for those reasons. I am unsure about how I feel about my H, I think I am still in love, but feel as if I am falling out of love. I have only had 2 months to soak all of this in, so my mind is in a whirlwind! It really is just so unfair that he went out and ruined our life, and now I have to make the ultimate decison for all of us. My children are such a priority for me, and I know I need to make myself a priority. I have been to an extent. I do think I need anti depressents as well. I have lost nearly 10 pounds this week, and I feel anxious, sick and tired. I will talk to my doctor about that.
Thank You so much to all of you, and I would definately like to e-mail women who have gone through this!
PS
What does WS mean?

Upnorth.....sorry to hear your story but this is the place where you and your wife can get good advice and hopefully start putting your marriage back together. First thing you have to do is get the book my wife(almostbroken) suggested. Then find a Sexaholics Anonymous group and start going to meetings. A sexaholics main weakness is "Lust". If you can control the lust then you can control your problem. As an addict if you don't control lust then you yourself become uncontrollable. It is hard to admit that you have a problem at first because so many people think that wanting sex is not a problem at all. I think you have seen as well as all the other WS's on here have seen that it is. I BEG you to get help and not rely on yourself to try and conquer this because it is much bigger than you. We use the same 12 step program that AA uses and it works but the first step is up to you.<p> As my wife said, stop the lieing right now and stop the addictive cycle and start to work on fixing you. If you don't fix you then there will be no fixing the marriage.<p> I know everyone on here is praying for you and your wife as we try to make sense out of what we did to our wives.<p> Love in christ,
cajunky<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]</p>

Up North,<p>D-day for me was Sep last year...we've been going to counseling still. It is so devastating and painful to find out that someone you love so much and whom you trust has betrayed you. It is even worse when it happened more than once. After 30 years of what I thought was a good marriage I found out that my H had not only one A but several. <p>I can understand your W's feelings. I, too, had so many times wondered if there is any hope for our M but in the end I decided to work on it because I love my H and I felt that he still loves me despite his infatuation with this last OW. Although I went through a lot of sleepless and tearful nights, things are getting better and I now actually feel that we do have hope. Please ask your W to come to this forum and read, read, read. It has helped me tremendously to be able to share my feelings with caring friends who have experienced the same pain.<p>You need to show your W how much you love her not just with words but with your actions. Let her know that you are sorry for your actions. My H finally told me that he was sorry not only for hurting me but also for his selfish actions, that was what I need to hear so desperately.<p>I will be keeping you in my prayers.

Mr. and Mrs. UN,<p>From where I'm standing (with one foot out the door), the most important factor in Mrs. UN's decision will probably be you, UN, and what walk you walk from this day forward.<p>If my H (husband) had come clean on D-day (discovery day) instead of yanking the rug out from under me with multiple D-days and continuing contact with the OW (other woman), if he had taken full responsibility for what he did instead of blaming me, if he had committed to a plan of recovery and carried out his part of it, then I would stay. If he would finally try to be the H he should have been and finally give me the love and respect that was promised to me more than 10 years ago, then I would stay. But he didn't and it appears he never will.<p>He did more damage to the M (marriage) and my dwindling feelings for him in the last 3-1/2 months than in the 9 months of the A (affair). I am a little more than 2 months from Plan B, and so far he is squandering this opportunity to build a new M with me (I absolutely will not settle for the old one).<p>Believe me, I have thought long and hard about getting out and starting over with a man who has never done this to me. In fact, when I first found out about this H's A, if my ex-H (also a WS (wayward spouse), but never a BS (betrayed spouse)) had been single, I would have given HIM another chance before this H, and that is because this H was a BS in his previous M, and that was one of the two things that convinced me to marry him (the other was his commitment to God, which no longer exists), so he did this to me KNOWING how it feels, inflicted this on me ON PURPOSE with full knowledge of what he was doing to me.<p>I am already more in love with pretty much any man on earth than with my H because any one of them will start off with a huge head start since none of them has ever done this to me.<p>However, even now, if my H would make me the highest priority in his life and follow the MB plan for marital recovery, I would choose him over a new man, trusting Dr. Harley that my feelings for my H will return if he meets my needs and stops hurting me.<p>So, UN, Radical Honesty and ALL extraordinary precautions and SAA (Surviving An Affair, a book available on this website) plan to the letter with absolutely no deviations.<p>You may want to look at the situation the way I do: Your W (wife) has the same decision to make that she made when she decided to marry you. How do you measure up compared to other suitors? Are you marriage material?<p>My H and I both know I would never have even dated him, much less married him, if he had a history of being unfaithful in M when I met him back then. The only thing he has going for him right now is that he is the father of my children. In order to balance the scales in his favor, he will need to make himself attractive to me in every other way in order to make up for the deficit of adultery. So far he is not doing that, just doing more of the same. Don't make that mistake.<p>And Mrs. UN, as hard as it is, try to give it some time for your feelings to settle before you make any decision. The anti-depressants really help. I avoided them for years, but I don't think I could have survived this without them, so you may want to talk to your doctor about it. I notice since I started taking Wellbutrin the waves of pain beat against me, but I don't completely drown in it.<p>Set a period of time in your mind and wait until that passes before thinking about whether to stay in the M or not. Get to know who your H is now to see if you would marry him again. You may see good things you've never seen before. He's already way ahead of my H by being here in this forum, learning the MB concepts, and most of all respecting you enough to tell you EVERYTHING (I hope). Many of us here can attest to a contrite and willing WS being worth their weight in gold when it comes to marital recovery. Most of us have not been so lucky. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>(Hope I helped a little with the abbreviations [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )

Mrs. UN, I'm unfortunately all too familiar with your story. My own H had multiple affairs over 6 years and the truth slowly spilled out over the course of 11 months. There is no question in my mind that he is a Sexual Addict. His reasons, his rational, the horrible guilt he felt after every "episode" and the fear/need/hating himself that he felt before and during all point to SA. Out MC agrees. My H has done a lot to try and regain my love and my trust. Everything except owning up to the addiction. He's the only one who can't see that at this point. So though I hang in here giving him yet another chance, though we have many wonderful days together, though we share three beautiful children and enjoy being a "real" family, I don't know that I can let him back into my life completely, not now or ever. And we're at yet another crossroads. Our recovery has been long and arduous. After almost two years of agony, I still feel it as though it happened yesterday. Being in love is all well and good, but he has changed what love means to me. <p>I'm sorry we have to be here. There is so much to learn, so many good people here with so many stories, so much experience and a lot of incredible advice. The occasional kick in the pants, too. I hope you stay and get a screen name of your own. I myself post here only sporadically, as others do. But I find it always helps to read and I do occasionally jump in where I feel I can be useful. <p>My prayers are with you both. Let me know if you want e-mail contact. I'll be happy to correspond. <p>Snowwhite