My DD's came home last night after spending three weeks with WS and OW. It was not easy for me to let them go to them but because I know OW is not a very concerned mother and is only interested in WS, I purposely send the children to them so that WS would get some insight into behaviour and feelings of OW towards children and maybe lift some fog from him. WS has a very strong bond with DD's and love them deeply.<p>When they came home I did not question them and only gave them my love and affection and lots of hugs and kissed. After about an hour my 9yo D who is always telling me that I must not speak about OW started opening up. <p>OW said that they had no manners and then for the three weeks insisted on teaching them manners. Also told 9yo that she was overweight and then but her on a strict diet, no sweets, no cakes, no meat and only salads. Told WS that his children is being rude to her and insisted that they apologize. Gave 2yo D a hiding for not eating her food when they were on holiday at an hotel which resulted in WS sleeping with children for remainder of holiday at hotel (3 nights). "This must of been a very misrable holiday for OW". 9yo daughter who is a very quite child told OW that she had no right to give her sister a hiding and to speak to her like that. This shocked me as she is an introvert and I have been struggling with her to speak about her feelings.<p>WS, children and OW's children spoke about how they hate WS for taking their mother and my children told them how they hated their mother for taking their father. This is so sad that children of this age is learning to hate because of two selfish persons who only thought about their own needs. WS told D that he hated OW's 9yo daughter. This is so sick. OW also slapped her 9yo D through her face and WS took our daughter's to their room not to witness these hidings.<p>OW, called me a stupid women for spoiling my children - giving them two small gifts for Xmas and buying them new clothes.<p>All this became too much for WS and he burst out crying in DD's bedroom.<p>I know my husband and I know how this behaviour of the OW upsetted him because he is a very passive person and never ever did we reprimand our children by giving them a hiding. This was a definite NO' NO'<p>DD's told me on Xmas day that WS was happy with OW and that I must stop crying (after being with them for three days). This made me feel terrible but last night she said "Daddy will never be happy with OW and he was stupid (after being with them for three weeks)". <p>Firstly, I thanked God for being with me and the children through this trying time and I thanked him for answering my prayers for OW's to expose herself for what she really is and what she really want -only WS and his money and nothing else-.<p>When WS dropped children off - he could not look me in the eyes - is this guilt or what? Because he always told me that children were very happy with him and OW and I was the person that influenced the children and that OW loved and accepted our children as her own. Is her behaviour now that of a person that cares for WS's children.<p>
I prayed to God last night to let this be an eye opener to WS and for some fog to lift.<p>What do I think of all these happenings - Will it lift some fog. Is WS perhaps thinking of what he gave up for this W and whether it was worth the while.<p>I am glad my children is back and now we can go on living again.<p> [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

GinnyF,<p> Hopefully this will be a real eye-opener to what real life w/ OW and all these children will be like all the time. If he loves his girls, he may not be able to stand by for long to see how she treats them. Still, it sounds like he is in a fog at this time if he didn't do something about the OW's behavior towards his children during their vacation. <p>This type of behavioris often the reason why marriages to OW have a high failure rate. It sounds like the light of day may be appearing over this whole A and if you have read here at MB, you know that this is what often kills the A. KEep your chin up, plan A and hopefully he will see what he has traded his loving family for. Good luck to you.

Ginny -- do you and WH talk?
Are you able to discuss the things that went on during this visit with him?<p>I would be absolutely LIVID with some of the things you talked about. It is NOT ok for OW to put MY child on a diet -- or to otherwise impair her self-esteem. It is NOT ok to OW to in any way strike my child. It is NOT ok for her to be whatsoever involved in discipling my children.<p>Although it may somehow serve your purpose for WS and OW to break their happy bubble -- I would not let my children be put into a situation like this.
If you and your H are able to have a discussion, I would bring these issues up.<p>Gosh this is hard for kids.

Ginny-<p>Wow, I am shocked at her behavior even- talk about Lbing all over the place- wow she sure did. I bet that was quite an eye opener for your H. I have to agree though with the person who said that I would hesitate to want to put chidren in that position again. Children are the innocent victims, and this type of thing could really effect them.<p>I would very definitely talk to your husband about this in whatever way you can, let her call and complain, she will just be showing her colors even more. You have a right to talk to your husband about the raising of your children and your concerns about this womans treatment of them if they are going over there. <p>Frankly, I would refuse to let him take them over there anymore- make him come to you or take them out but not to their home. You have very valid concerns. But please watch your tone, do not scream and yell, try the policy of joint agreement approach and try to keep your request repectful of his feelings. I would if possible let him know you still consider him your husband and yourself as his wife, and try if you can to let him know in whatever way you can that the door is open, without being demanding of course.<p>It is good that she shattered his fantasy, but those poor kids! I'd have all I could do not to want to go smack her around and see how she likes it! But, I believe that would definitely fall in the category of an LB, so not advisable. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Stay strong, and keep avoiding those LB's- leave those for her, she's doing such a good job!

YOu GO GIRL! It sounds like an excellent eye opener... I know you missed your kids, but you got a little break didn't you! WOW, I am very impressed at OW and her lb's ... why do secretaries try to steal hubbies - yes, for money... etc... what a SCUMMY OW... i am totally against physical spanking, etc and slapping a child on the face? this is enough to have her child taken away... I know your H knows and believes this.... glad that your h is getting to see some reality... my counselor sd... oh the ows always act like they like the kids, in the beginning, but then the truth comes out, they hate the kids, they are only playing nice to get the guy to marry them! AGGHHH,,, grrr grrr.... OH MY, how can men be so dumb!<p>I am glad this was an eye opener, and glad your kids did ok, despite crziness.<p>HUGS< honey

sorry on closer look, do talk to him about her treatment of kids, diet and hiding? totally out of the question.<p>hugs, honey

Hi,
I just read your posting. I have to say I dont'know your daughter, but am very proud of what she saied to the ow. I hope your husband will open his eyes. Even though it was tough to have your children away, it was probably a good thing for your husband to see what this woman is like. Take Care and God Bless~!

Your daughter sounds like a very smart little girl! Good for her speaking up to OW like that! I agree wholeheartedly with Lexxy...do not let your children near that woman EVER! Your children should not be put into the situation where they are going to be afraid of being slapped. I hope this woke your husband up to the reality of what his life will be like with OW. Good luck and God bless!
BH

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lexxxy:
<strong>Ginny -- do you and WH talk?
Are you able to discuss the things that went on during this visit with him?<p>I would be absolutely LIVID with some of the things you talked about. It is NOT ok for OW to put MY child on a diet -- or to otherwise impair her self-esteem. It is NOT ok to OW to in any way strike my child. It is NOT ok for her to be whatsoever involved in discipling my children.<p>Although it may somehow serve your purpose for WS and OW to break their happy bubble -- I would not let my children be put into a situation like this.
If you and your H are able to have a discussion, I would bring these issues up.<p>Gosh this is hard for kids.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Hi Lexxy<p>It is impossible to speak to WS as he avoids contact with me at all cost. He has now gone so far as to buy our 9yo D a cell phone and now daily contact her on this phone.<p>Whenever, I speak to him he just listens without answering back. This is very frustrating. We now communicate through our attorneys.<p>I have asked him on many occasions not to burden our 9yo D by speaking through her to no avail.<p>I don't even know where he stays and all correspondence to him is via his office. This is a big worry for me as what if something happens to the children and I need to get hold of him. I know my children can go and show me but for now I would rather not know - it still hurt too much.
Reason for him not wanting me to know where he stays is to "protect his privacy".<p>I have only started Plan Aing him about two weeks ago so maybe communication would increase.<p>Yes, I am livid with the way OW handled my children but I need to blow off steem first before I speak to WS about it otherwise it is going to be a big LB AGAIN.

Hi,<p>Well just for the children's sake, can you check into a restraining order from ow? I mean if she has scared your children then they would need to be protected from them especially if your H doesn't have the sense to do it himself. <p>JMHO,
L.

Thanks for the response<p>Well, I've spend my first day with DD's back from WS and OW. It was not easy. <p>My 2yo D is just uncontrolable. She is aggressive and is throwing terrible tantrums. Keep on asking me if I will give her a hiding. Assured her that I love her and that I will never ever give her a hiding. I just held her in my arms this morning after another aggressive tantrum. Told her how much I love her and held her for quite some time hugging and kissing her to make her feel safe. Said I must not send her back to the "witch".<p>My 9yo asked me to cook her a decent meal - "Mum I don't want to eat or see salads again". She asked me whether I also think that she was fat. I assured her that she look good and healthy and she must not worry about what the OW said as she was a very insensitive women.<p>I am seeing my daughters therapist today so I will take up all these issues with her.<p>9yo D, told me last night that OW degraded me at a party which upsetted WS terribly. On coming home they had a terrible argument and WS told OW that she was disgusting and does not know me at all and that I was a very decent and sincere person. She then told him to f.....o...... back to your fat, neurotic wife. Yes' I did gain weight after birth of 2 yo but since D-Day I have lost all that weight and she is in for a huge shock if she should see the new me now''''''''''''' I don't think she knows that WS is telling friends that I look so good. <p>It is very unfortunate that my children is being exposed to such abusive behaviour. WS said he will take me to court if I should keep children away from him..... Finding out ways and means for him to still have contact because I know he loves his daughters. They also told me "We love being with daddy but not with OW"<p>Why is everything so difficult???????????????

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Hi,<p>Well just for the children's sake, can you check into a restraining order from ow? I mean if she has scared your children then they would need to be protected from them especially if your H doesn't have the sense to do it himself. <p>JMHO,
L.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi<p>Yes, I've been to our courts already to find out about a restraining order - this was soon after WS moved out and children were in contact with OW they would come back home traumatised. In our country you get a Breach of Peace Order which actually does not serve its purpose (taken this out against her)- Basically just telling her to be sensitive to children's needs. <p>I've also been to our courts to try and get a restraining order against WS not to take children to OW - was not granted as they said husband was not physically, mentally or emotionally abusing children.<p>The funny part is - when I lost my temper with WS once regarding regression of 9yo D, school work - he took out a protection order against me and this was granted. So for the next five years I cannot abuse him verbally, mentally or physically.
Judge told me to get on with my life and to not keep children away from WS and OW as they were getting on with their lives - How sick is this legal system..................

Dear Ginny, <p>I am sorry the courts are not working with you. Then you need to strengthen your children. Teach them how to react when the OW or anyone is abusive to them and let them know exactly what that means. Even if they have to run and scream for help. Let your H know that if you find out that he is allowing the children to be subjected to this kind of treatment you will use everything within your power to see to it that proper charges are brought against those who are harming your children. You don't need to spell it out, just say it. He can go figure out who and what you mean by 'those who are harming your children'. <p>See the OW is LBing him by trying to replace your children with herself. Not even her children. You need to be prepared if he allows it. Have you checked with your local police or law enforcement to see what they provide? I am not sure of the country or area you live in. Maybe there are other MB people near your area. <p>Take Care,
L.

Maybe its time that you try again for the orders against her -- now that you have some valid concerns.<p>And again I stress "against HER". Your H has done nothing wrong, and I don't believe that you should prevent or interfere with his time with his daughters. However I do believe that you should seek protection from them spending ANY time with her. Speak at once to your daughters therapists -- to corroborate the past weeks. And get your daughters in to see the therapists while this is all fresh.<p>In addition talk to your attorney about how to limit the interaction and presence that OW has while your daughter are in your husbands care.<p>Again, take no action against HIM, but document and proceed with action against HER. In fact, he ends up being a witness to YOUR side.

Yes Ginny- I agree with Lexxy. You have cause now you did not have before- plus you do not have to stop H from seeing children- just stop him from taking them where SHE is.

Another idea comes to mind. BEFORE going to courts/law which could further inflame the situation, why don't you try calling him through his office if necessary- or through your daughters cell phone (does it show his number on her call history?), and give him the message you need to have a meeting with your HUSBAND asap due to very serious situation with "our" children.<p>Try to get together, or at least on the phone with him to discuss this with him POJA style- read up on POJA so you are ready to avoid it becoming confrontational and be ready with lots of potential solutions to try to find one you both can be entusiastic about.<p>If that fails at least it shows effort to try to be civil and settle the issue as two parents and husband and wife instead of enemies- which when it comes to your children you definitely should not be, even if you do get divorced, but in the end your children's protection of course is the paramount concern.

Hi<p>I am having a terrible time with my DD's. 3yo is very aggressive and have a terrible attitude. Demands my attention at all times. 9yo D is very protective over her Dad she scolded 3yo for telling me that H was now sleeping with OW. WS has promised D's and me that he will not share room with OW whilst DD's were there for holiday.
I told him OW would not allow this. Well, he kept his promise for a week and then OW insisted that DD's should know they were together.<p>3yo told me last night that WS was sleeping with OW - 9yo disputed this fact and said 3yo was telling lies and that WS shared their room. I really don't know how to deal with this. Told them I don't want to hear anything. Spoke to 9yo about telling lies and that it was a sin. I was angry because my daughter is now telling lies to protect her father. Also angry at WS for making them believe that the way he is living now is morally right. Told 9yo that OW was his girlfriend and that Mummy will soon have a boyfriend. <p>I spoke to DD's about marriage and vows before God and what WS is doing now is wrong in the eyes of God. We must pray for WS for God to protect him and be with him during this time. How do you teach your children moral values if their father is living an immoral life.<p>It is my D's birthday today. I feel so sad. Promises by WS of wanting to share birthdays seems to have fallen by the wayside. No contact with me to find out what we are doing. Do I phone him and let him know what we have planned or do I wait for him to call.<p>My Plan A seems more like a Plan B as their is no contact. I will be sending him photo's of the party. <p>I am reading POJA before I discuss happenings during holiday but I still have too much anger in me to write a letter (my way of communicating with him)