What happened. I would be willing to answer questions from this side of the fence if anyone had any.<p>Jan 1988. At a party. Everyone drinking and a bit of flirting going on. End of night she makes it very clear to me that she and I could sneak off and it would happen. Me, being stupid, drunk, totally surprised and flattered goes off and has sex with her in her car. She calls the next week, knowing my wife would be gone that evening and we talk. We made plans for the next night, right after work and it is now an affair. It was fun. It was easy. I never, not once thought that this would ruin my marriage. She was not a woman I could ever love. To tell you the truth, there were times when listening to her talk made my head spin. I didn't want to hear about how lazy her husband was or how sad she was when her parents got divorced. I wanted the sex and that was pretty much it. So I pretended it was all so sad for her. Half the time I was thinking about my motorcyle and the trip with the guys or something. The only thing I was interested in was the sex. Pretty soon we were meeting at least once a week. Sometimes in motels, but basically meeting on dirt roads, back alleys and stuff. I understood that she had animosty towards my wife. She would get agitated when she would find out that my wife was always riding the motorcyle with me. Or when she knew we were going away to cabins for weekends with friends and having a good time. I learned not to talk about my wife to her. I would tell her I was going cycling and leave it at that. I didn't want to really talk to her. After we would have sex, I would try to get away as quickly as I could. Sometimes it would seem so mean to run off so I would have to play the game. Pretending to listen when all I wanted to do was go home and mow the yard or something. Looking back, I can see where she thought we had a relationship. I can see where I let her think that. It was easier then ever admitting the truth. I didn't want the sex to end. Hey, it was fun. She was just a friend and I didn't see where anyone was going to get hurt. Then my wife found out. I came home one night and she knew where I had been. I felt my whole world fall apart. I did not want to lose my wife. She was better looking, great mother, great housekeeper, was fun to be with and was my whole life. I was scared to death. She was angry and hurt and was yelling and screaming and all. I knew right then that the affair was not worth it. My wife went after the OW and saw that she was fired from her job. She then made sure that the OW husband knew too. The OW called me at work and started asking questions. I told her to leave me alone and hung up on her. I never took a call from her again. She tried to contact me, but I never talked to her again. I hated going home. I never knew what wife would be there. The nice one, or if the kids were gone, the angry questioning one. Lucky for me, (or so I thought at the time), she was also busy closing up her grandparents estate. She was busy with that and with our child didn't have alot of quesitons. Somehow it was all put behind us. I remember one time, a few years back she asked a few questions. I covered quickly and it was past. Then last year good friends of our went through this. The wife was at our home and literally told my wife everything, everydetailed answer to every questions you could imagine. I sat in the kitchen, listenting and my blood ran cold. I knew that I was in for it. After all that time, I thought we could weather anything. I was wrong. My wife started asking the hard questions. Where, when, in our home, oral sex, etc. I denied denied denied. I pretended like I didn't remember, I evaded. She persisted. She came at me like a pit bull. I tried to shove it aside again. Asking her to drop it, let it go, it was such a long time ago. I tried everything. I came here looking for help. I hated hearing that I had to tell her the truth. I hated that. I knew the answers were going to be awufll. I was now looking at all of this through her eyes. It was killing me. She started getting more and more depressed. It was obvious that she was not going to handle the answers, but if I didn't, she was gone too. I was now between a rock and a hard place. She left. She contacted attorneys. She threw away gifts and momentos. She gave away any furniture we had from the old house when she found out that we had sex there. She ripped up pictures from a trip we went on. She hit rock bottom. I clung to my lies with all I was worth. Finally, I realized I had no choice. In counseling she asked and I finally gave her the answers. She wanted a divorce, she called our lives a total lie, she screamed and yelled and hit me. She sold her car, she ran the credit cards up to the max. She did everything to try and get me to hurt. Finally she kept asking more and more and more detailed questions. It was then that she and our counselor realized why. She knew the answers were killing me. Now I was the one losing sleep. I was the one with the anxiety. She would bring me divorce papers and tell me to get out. She was acting out her rage and anger. The tables were now turned. She had me up on the ropes and she knew it. She verbally punched me over and over with her questions. She wanted to know everything, and I mean everything. <p>Lately, things have subsided a bit. The hurt that I have caused makes me sick. I am ashamed at how stupid I was. I look back on the affair and it was nothing, or so I thought. But my wife sure saw it otherwise and now so do I. <p>I think men see sex differently. We really are able to put things in compartments. That OW was nothing to me, never was. I can see where she thought she was. I can see where I let her think she was, but she wasn't. When I stopped all contact, she was angry. I didn't care. Her feelings meant nothing. I was more concerned for myself. I didn't want to lose my wife. So I kept all kinds of lies and it ended up exploding later.<p>I now know lots of guys who have had other women. And yes, men do talk. To a man, I can tell you that none think of leaving their wives. Those that do are out to safe their own face. Most are kicked out and they go live with the OW for a while. Letting her think they came to her. Most are forced there. All want their lives back but dont' know how to do it. I wouldn't know either. <p>I don't know how we even got through it. I still wince when I see a look in my wifes eyes. She will probably never think of me the same again. I know she can trust me, but she says she never will. That hurts. I to this day can't find a reason why I did it. It looks like it was a self esteem thing and so far I guess that would be right. I know how affairs get going. I also know how easy it is to live with lies as long as your not caught. I see men who can't face what they are so they ignore it and try to erase it from their minds. That is how we do it. As long as we stay up on the lies we are fine. <p>The other truth is I am now glad my wife knows everything. I almost lost her, twice do to my own stupid actions. But we are getting through it. I never thought I could, but I love her even more. She is still the sexiest, sweetest woman I know. To think that I almost lost her for nothing is embarrassing to think about. But now we have no secrets. She still can come unglued at times, but I can take it now. I can understand where it is coming from and hopefuly we can get past it.<p>The ow is never a thought. My wife thinks I must, but I don't. I never think of her. Even back then I didn't think of her. My wife can't understand it was for sex only. She never meant a thing. Now when I have to think about it I actually hate her. I hate the one who helped me hurt my wife. I know it was my fault. But she was part of it. <p>The only need I got out of it was a high of being young again. It had nothing to do with my wife. I liked that another woman was calling and offering it up so I took it. I was one immature selfish guy and I have paid a price.

Interesting post. Sounds like you learned your lesson the hard way. Since you feel that you afiar was about sex (I know not all of them are) was that a "need" your wife wasn't meeting or was it just the excitement of something new?

Whoa! What a purge.<p>I know this was very hard to write. It was brutally honest and I commend you for your candor. <p>Confessions are so good for the soul. Your W had a right to know whatever she has asked. Throughout your A your W was never given a chance to make her own decisions about the marriage because she was intentionally left in the dark.<p>Now she has all of it to comb thru, so many emotions will pass through her. Patience and time.<p>I'll pray that you two can make it thru this. I know you both must hurt where there aren't words. I'm sorry for that. <p>I have a question for you. I'd like to know something about your A that will help me with my own situation. If you don't answer I do understand. I would like to know if you ever told the OW you loved her. <p>And I too would like to know if SF was the EN you were lacking at home, hence the A.<p>God Bless,
Jo<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

A Husband, Wow, that was a difficult post for me to read. You could have been reciting my WH's story. I knew that it was only for sex, but that does not make the discovery any less painful. I will only say that you seem to be repentant and I appreciate you telling your story. My H used the exact same "compartmentalize" angle. The hurt in her eyes is real, the loss of trust is real. Your feelings however are real too and I thank you for sharing them. Prayers to you, Ladysing

I'm curious too about your wife meeting SF? My WH swears it was just sex, but not even for the sex. We had/have a very active sex life (not all the time, but definitely before/during/after the PA). But he can't "put it into words" yet about what the affair was *really* about. Some kind of ego boost maybe? Sad thing is the OW is "that type of woman" and has done this with many men before (married and unmarried I think). They used eachother to fill some need of excitement, forbidden crap...I don't know...

Dear A Husband,<p>Thank your for posting this and your candor. I have a question for you since my H had a ONS for pretty much the same reasons you gave. I am having a very hard time understanding something.<p>I am assuming here that your thought your W would never find out. Even though you thought she would never find out didn`t you feel like you were hurting her all the same? I am not being judgemental here but I am the type of person who cannot understand how someone can be in love and yet commit an act guaranteed to cause immesurable pain to their spouse. This doesn`t compute in my brain. You had to have known that it would hurt her. I can understand a man wanting sex just for sex but what I cannot understand is how a sex act could be worth destroying a spouse. Maybe it`s just me but sex with Brad Pitt himself wouldn`t entice me to hurt my spouse like that. I cannot imagine a sexual encounter that would be so great that I would take that chance. This is not a flame but an honest question, you have been very forthcoming in your post and maybe you can help me to understand something. It could be your good deed for the day.

Wow, I wish my H was sorry... he kind of is, kind of isn't and figures out crzy ways to blame it all on me... anyway... It is nice to hear your story, thanks for posting it... I know part of what was in it for my H, was that she was so easy. thanks, honey

Here are some answers:<p>Did I tell other woman I loved her. Yes. She would tell me, and then I would say me too, or I love you too. But I can say I never meant it. I was saying it so she wouldn't start blustering about being used, and all. I learned to say what would cause the least bit of trouble.<p>Needs. This is where even I get confused. The sex at home was always good. Better actually. But it was just different with the other woman. It was not special, it was kind of cold even though we did everything. But it was just different. <p>Did I think I was hurting my wife? No. At that time I didn't think so. I was always a good husband to her. We made love often. We took trips, and went on with our life. Now I realize what I have done. Now I see how I was hurting her even when she didn't know. It makes me sick to think that way. The day she found out, I remember clearly. My stomach sank and I was scared. I didn't want to lose her. I knew I had hurt her. It wasn't until last year when she really started to ask and when I watched friends of ours go through this that I knew how much I had hurt her.I had forgotten it until then.<p>I do have some advice or I can tell you how my wife got me to answer the tough questions. She would ask me something like, did you tell her you loved her. I would say no. Then she would tell me it made no sense. She would explain why it didn't make sense then I would come clean. This went on for weeks. I finally learned that I had to be honest right away. It was hard. It was horrible but it was the only way.<p>I read on here where so many of you are like her, you want answers. We do know them. But I was scared to face the anger. I didn't want to hurt her or to make her hate me. I didn't want her to leave me so I would lie. I didn't want to get yelled at. I didn't want to face the truth at all. But in the end I made everything worse.<p>I have to help her now. She is blaming herself for being stupid to stay with me. She is ashamed of herself for not kicking me out back then. She is furious that I knew things and didn't tell her then. But it was so much easier to lie and to hide.

A Husband,<p>This is just MVHO but, I believe you feeling remorse and hurt for your wife (empathy) is all good stuff, yet ..... I feel that you really need to find out "WHY" this happened.<p>You say your SF ENs were being met by your W, yet you went out and had an A and say it was only a PA with no emotional attachment involved, that no other needs were being met by OW. That the A was only and all about SEX. Please forgive me but I'm doing the math and something isn't adding up here.<p>I'm not saying OW was meeting other needs, I'm just wondering WHAT would have drove you to resort to an A with OW. Could it be your A was all about something you haven't dealt with, perhaps something in your childhood or something traumatic that has happened to you that manifests itself as an A.<p>Whatever it is, I think it's profoundly important and something you and your W need to find out in order for you both to fully recover and rebuild an A proof rewarding and successfull marriage.<p>JMVHO .... <p>Love,
Jo<p>[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

We are not at that point yet. We are working on details and questions and anger right now. So far it looks like I had low self esteem and was getting off on another woman wanting to have sex with me and all. We haven't dug that deep yet. The hard part is I am a different person now then I was then. This happened in 1988. It sat buried under the rug and then it exploded. So it is not all that easy to remember how I was feeling or where I was as far as the mental part of it. But I think we will get there soon. When I find out I will let you know what they say.<p>We are focused on all the lies by omission this past year. How none of it was my wifes fault and forcing me to tell all the truths no matter what. We took a break at christmas, but are starting up again, actually tonight. So, right now I don't know exactly what I was getting from the OW. Maybe she was making me feel important or something. I just don't remember. She was needy and not as strong as my wife. My wife was dealing with grandparents deaths and lots of details. The ow wasn't. I don't know yet.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by A husband:
We are not at that point yet. We are working on details and questions and anger right now. So far it looks like I had low self esteem and was getting off on another woman wanting to have sex with me<hr></blockquote><p>Welp, in my book, and from what I've learned from being on MB for nearly 2 years, I'd say this would be the EN of "Admiration". <p>Perhaps when you two are ready, you may want to explore that EN possibility.<p>God Bless you both, I will pray for your marriage recovery. <p>Love,
Jo

Hi Husband,<p> Welcome and thank you for your story. I was curious about all of the men you know that have had other women and how they really don't want to leave their wives. Is this really true? Do men really think this way? <p>I guess it must be so different for a female....even my H claimed he was madly in love with OW but says he NEVER thinks about her. (I really think that's true).<p>Have you thought about counseling with the Harleys? They could help you with a recovery plan and help your W deal with all of this.<p>Thanks for your story.....LU

I know of 5 guys who have cheated on their wives, and not one of them would ever want to lose the wife. 100% of them are, including me which is 6, are busting our butts to get our wives to love and respect us again. <p>The stories are all similiar. The one thing that stands out is opportunity. At the time of these affairs we all had kids. They were all little kids too. So it was easy to get away while the wife stayed with the kids. I read above where it could be an admiration thing. Never thought about it but it seems like it could be a reason. But overall it was easy. Each man I know, including me, were with women that none of us would choose as a lifemate. I don't want to degrade anyone, but I think we all know the type. Reading and writing it seems judgemental to me and considering that I almost lost my wife cause if it, makes me have to judge myself too. But the cold hard facts are there are women out there who have no problems with having affairs with married men. When you come across one it was pretty easy after that. Madly in love? I never was. If you believe that your husband loves you and is sorry believe that the feelings he had were not love at all. It is fun to sneak around. Then when you get caught your world stops. I was willing to say or lie about anything to keep from taking any responsibility. Most guys I know will lie till the cows come home instead of having to face it. Sometimes some guys leave cause it was easier to go to a willing woman. They all begged to come home later. Life is real, life is hard. having sex with someone in a car is not life. It is sex. When you have to be with that person, you wouldn't even know them. Then it would be obvious that there are no feelings. I would believe him when he says he never thinks of her. I never thought of the other woman at all, not once. After i was caught she was out of my mind entirely. She tried to get in touch with me but I never returned a call. I would see her sometimes driving or something and it didn't even register with me. I knew who she was but I just ignored her. I wanted to make it clear to her that I did not want her, didn't love her, never did, and never would. Somehow i felt like ignoring her would be a way to make it up to my wife. Proving to my wife and myself that we were still married couple. It's easy to forget what isn't important.

Thanks Husband for your insight....You sound like you are starting to take a good hard look at yourself and own up to your mistakes....<p>You know, you've helped me , I seem to make more out of my H's affair than he does, it could be possible it's as you say! LU

Wow. This has been an incredible thread for me to read through, and I want to express my appreciation for your sharing your experiences and emotions. One thing struck me. You said that you and the other men you know who have cheated on their wives are working very hard to regain your wives' love and respect. The latter issue there is big for me. I feel, as a BS, that I still love my husband, and sometimes I feel downright ashamed that I do. I mean, after all, he's the one who strayed! I wonder if perhaps I have lost all self-respect?<p> So on the one hand, I feel great hope for my personal situation when reading your post, because although you swept a lot under the carpet, when you had to "face the music" and reveal all to your wife, it seems to me that time and patience have paid off for you. I understand that you and your wife still have a long way to go, but I think that in sharing your story you have at least helped me believe that patience will be rewarded. On the issue of respect though, I doubt that I can ever respect my H again. And he is, socially, a man who commands great respect. But I cannot respect him anymore, and I wonder if that can ever return. Any thoughts on this?<p>Thanks again for your post and God bless.

Respect. I know she loves me, but she has little or no respect for me, at times. I think that is the hardest part for me right now. She can turn on a dime. One minute we are fine, watching a movie, the next she walks out of the room and mutters something about me being a liar. I try hard to make this up to her, but sometimes I just don't know what to do. <p>She has had huge crying jags about her being stupid and a fool for staying with a man like me. She has been beating herself up for a few months for it now. There is nothing I can do but tell her how much I love her. I try to talk about all the good we have and she tells me it is all a lie. She says she doesn't want to be this woman who will accept this. She tells me that if she keeps me then she is saying it is ok. I can tell you that it kills me inside to hear her saying this. I know I was wrong. I know I love her more then anything. I know I will never hurt her like this again. But she says things like to little to late and really beats herself up about staying with me. It scares me cause sometimes I worry that she is going to say thats enough, leave and really mean it. She has packed me up a few times and I have not left. But I'm afraid that someday she will force me out somehow. The respect thing is the hardest thing for me. She has none for me and tells me she has none for herself. She is a great wife, lover, mother, cook, friend, daughter, sister, aunt. She is such a good person and she never deserved this. She acts like she is ashamed of herself for going into her denial and then suffering from her PTSD. Yet I know it is all my fault. I am the one who did it, I'm the one who lied about it, I'm the one who shoved it under the rug and let it sit there. It is hard to see her sitting in her chair by the window, with this look on her face. <p>She isn't like this everyday. But about once a week she hits a dark period and really lets herself fall into a pit. Either she is angry at me or she is angry at herself. <p>I don't know if its normal but it is happening here too. All I know is that it is all my fault.<p>What a mess I have created, hid and lied about.

A Husband;<p>Thank you for your post. This is your thread and I don't want to steal your thunder. But, our situations are almost exactly the same. I have had two A's, and as you described they meant nothing after they were over. I have found my Number 1 EN is admiration, yes even above SF. Our situation was similar and "someone" paid attention to me and it was like a moth to a flame, I just couldn't (wouldn't stop myself.) Both were very short lived and I though since I didn't get caught I didn't hurt anyone. It fulfilled a need and made me realize how much I really loved my W. Ladies, I know you are thinking, PPPPLLLLLLAAAAAAAAEEESSSEEE! But that's what I felt after each A. After the second A, my W found the cell phone records and I nearly got caught and I saw the REAL pain it did cause to my W; just "Thinking" I had fooled around. That was 13 months ago. We brushed it under the rug and seemed to move. I with the committment to myself; that I would never again, hurt the mother of my children and the love of my life with that kind of pain. I thought I protecting the one I loved from the pain by not sharing the truth. My how life comes full circle.<p>On 12/01/01, my W told me she no longer knew how she felt about me and was thinking about a seperation. On 12/07/01, I had revealed the truth of my A's, and she took her wedding bands off. By 12/15/01, I had discovered my W was also involved in an A. So here we are 01/15/02, and we are both trying to figure what is left of ourselves and our lives and our marriage. I had dealt with the guilt of my A's when they happen and I moved on. I have felt so betrayed, so rejected and so unloved over the past several weeks; I have often wished my world would come to an end.<p>A Husband reading your post today has reminded me of the pain I have caused my W. Not only is she dealing with the pain of her own A, but with the revelation of mine as well. I have to say thank you for your honsety and candor today. After reading your post, I went directly to my W and I told her that I have been reminded of the pain she must be feeling and how much I appreciate the fact that every day we stay together is one more day we work toward figuring this whole mess out and rebuilding our marriage. I have chosen my path and that is to recover. She is still uncertain of hers and only she can make that decision.<p>Thank you for your post. Like I said I don't want to steal your thunder; but, whether you realize it or not, your honesty has helped other people (me and my W) and we have never met. I hope you and your W can find a way to rebuild your marriage. I feel your pain and if you need someone to help, the folks here at MB can be a great support. Godspeed and God Bless!

Dear A Husband,<p>Isn't it incredible how your sharing has helped and enlightened so many. I really feel for you, Badger 203, in your despair, and your wife who in her vulnerabilities after your revelations, ended up in an affair herself. So I guess you do have to re-evaluate yourselves and your marriage.<p>I understand respect is a huge issue, A Husband. I appreciate your thoughts. It did make me think, though, that there has to be forgiveness in all this somewhere. And while it may take a very long time indeed to rebuild the trust, it can only happen in small increments. A day at a time. And that is how we live life. Perhaps you could tell your wife in a tender way that you can only rebuild her trust one day at a time, and as hard as it may be for her to accept the loss of trust in your marriage, she really does have to bite the bullet and accept that time is the only way to remedy this. You can't erase the pain, as cognizant as you are of it. You can't erase the self-doubt she feels. You can only be the best husband you can be on a daily basis. That said, do your best to leave no room for doubt in your own behavior (my H's failing at this point.) Reassure her she can ask you anytime about what you are doing, who you are with. Again, you can't erase the past, you can only move forward together, if that is what she wants. Dwelling on the past will not help to build the future. I hope forgiveness can come for both of you, and that you can have a better and stronger and happier marriage.<p>As I hope that for us all, if we really choose it and want it and work for it.

Husband:<p>You have just typed out the story of our whole freakin' lives for the past three, almost four years, every way shape and form. Except you are coming from the other side from me. I am the BS--and I totally see how your wife is because I am just like her.<p>I know my husband loves me. . .but he cheated on me. . .so, what sense does that make? That's the part where the math just doesn't add up. . .if he loved me, why did he screw around? And here I am, thinking that I have tried to do everything right in this marriage, and it get's thrown in my face.<p>My husband and I were separated for nine months before I decided to return to him. He is a military officer, and when he was out on ship, I packed up and went home to my parents. I was so flippin angry, I felt so cheated. I gave up everything for him, my own military career, my home, a solid relationship with my family so that I could follow him all over the world. You know what the primary reason for me returning to him? I wanted my son to have a father--his father--and after all that I had been through, I was so bitter and sick that I could not go to a new relationship even if I wanted to. I could not deny my child a family, no matter how full of hate I was.<p>For the longest time, when I saw people on TV kissing, I had to get up and leave because it caused a wave of nausea to pass through me. And the whole trigger thing. Any song on the radio, especially Jewel "I was meant for you" or that song "Name" by Goo Goo Dolls,(their songs) just mention the name of the state Virginia (where they met) and I feel the heat rising inside of me. Those kind of feelings are finally subsiding in me, and it has been yet another 9 months passed. I don't know how long the triggers will last, how many years, but it is something that the WS has to be aware of.<p>Well, I thank you so much for your wonderful post, Husband. I have to get my boy ready for school, so I have to leave off here.

Dear "A Husband" - Bless you for posting here and for your candor. I pray that your wife's heart will open back up to you again, and that your marriage will be repaired and become stronger.<p>I would have given anything to have had my WH apologize to me or to show any remorse for his affair. He was self-righteous, and rationalized all his lying and cheating. I was a good wife to him - loyal, faithful, caring, affectionate, and yes - I let him know everyday how much I loved and admired him, even though in the last few years of our marriage he started emotionally abusing me and neglecting me for long periods of time. He still had an affair, lied about it, and then threw me away as if I were some piece of trash he no longer had use for. He walked out and married OW 4 months after the D was final. He didn't so much as give a backward glance in the rearview mirror when he left our home.<p>Your honesty, I pray, will be the thing that saves your marriage in the long run. Please keep us all posted. You are a rare bird for us here - a WS who has taken complete responsibility for their actions, not blamed BS, and who is honestly trying to heal themselves and their marriage. May God Bless you!!