A Husband,<p>Thank you so much for putting into words what my H hasn't really been able to do for me! Our situations are very similar except for the fact that I only found out about the A because there is also a 5 year old daughter that came from it and the OW decided to get child support. But I think that what hurts me the most is that it started over 6 years ago and went on until she became pregnant, then occasional lapses when he would go to visit the OC! All this while living a secret life! He says he doesn't have the words to explain why he did it because he just doesn't know. <p>I want to have him tell me everything and at first he was very good about telling me and answering all my questions but lately it makes him really angry and he refuses to talk about it, refuses to continue counseling with our pastor, etc. It only makes me feel worse, like he is hiding more and that he is afraid that all the ugly details will come out. I keep telling him that I don't care how bad it is, I want to know!!!<p>Do you have any advice for me? Am I just pushing him away? He has really been loving to me and spending extra time with me, etc. for the past two months since I found out, but I feel like I need more. I need to talk about the A and get over it before I can move on. Is that wrong? How can I get him to understand what I am feeling?<p>You have given me hope...it sounds like you didn't open up right away either. How can I handle this situation without making him feel more guilty?

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Asking questions did make me angry too. I didn't want to hurt her, get myself in trouble. I wanted it just to go away. It made me uncomfortable when she got in the mood and asked questions. It took me a long time to realize that the questions were not stopping, but were growing. I wanted it all to go away.<p>Being honest. I am being honest. I know it. But she doesn't. That is one of the hardest things about all of this. I can be romantic, nice and generous but it doesn't gain her trust or respect at all. We are going to FL in Feb. Disney and all that. I hope we can have fun and relax from this then. I know I can't buy her trust back. I have been accused of that by the counselor and my wife. I don't know how to make her trust me again. Just being trustworthy each day. Letting her vent and not getting defensive allows a bit of trust to grow.<p>Lying to the other woman: I think we both knew what we were doing. She was married and she knew I was married. This was not some love story or anything. It's not like a relationship. Did I lie to her? Yeah, I did. Was she honest with me? No. It's not like it mattered. Once it was outed it was over. No looking back. Should I feel bad that she could have been hurt? I don't think so. She knew what we were doing and so did I. The only ones who deserve to be angry and upset was my wife and her husband. Her and I have no right to be upset about anything.<p>We had a session last night. Seems like it will be a while before we dig into my mind. We are working on the trusting and getting the love back in our marriage. The love is there on my part, but she is holding back. That is our goal for the next week. We are supposed to spend time acting loving towards each other. Counselor still thinks wife is enjoying punishing me and loves to see me upset. Counselor says that if I get caught in one more lie by omission, or if I evade a questions, it will set my wife back again. I learned that each time I evaded, then came out with the truth, we had to go back to square one all over again. Couselor says my wife is not even close to forgiving me and is still holding lots of anger. Going to be a long road. We did go out for drinks later and drove around looking at houses. She loves doing that. <p>Long long road. <p>And for the record, the affair was not worth any of this. The damage has been so deep and so severe that it really makes one sick.

The beginning of your most recent post, A Husband, made me feel like you were showing the immature side of you that didn't want to face the music and answer your wife's questions. Your story is one which shows the high cost of infidelity. I hope, though, that you won't get discouraged. You have shown tremendous courage in sharing your story here on the forum, and I am sure it is benefitting many. Hang in there when your W gets discouraged. Do take things one day at a time and reiterate to your wife that that is all you can do in rebuilding the trust. I think you have been counseled wisely to be extremely careful about being honest now, including omitting anything your wife might care about. That said, you are human, too. Your W has to realize that you are making tremendous progress. Finally, I think it is important to be careful about trying to "buy" your wife's happiness or trust in you. I know I would much rather have some help putting the kids to bed at night than a bottle of perfume.<p>Hang in there and continue with the solid daily efforts. You will be a better person for all your efforts, no matter the outcome. I do hope you and your W will enjoy great success in your marriage.

Dear A husband,<p>You say that alot of your male friends have been through the same thing. The same thing with my H`s friends. My H was in a very male dominated milieu. Construction work and the fire dept. he told me that many of the men there had cheated on their wives some only once or twice some in longterm A`s. The men he spoke with expressed no regret. The ones who had only done it once or twice had said that it was the ultimate sexual thrill. Forbidden fruit. They said that it would be a great memory AND would actually make them love and appreciate their wives and marriages even more. They made it sound like a male right of passage. Does this ring true to you? Do some men think/talk like this?<p>My H couldn`t resist. He fantasied about it for a very long time before he did it. He says that he had no intention of ever actually going through with it but he does admit that before he did it he would pick out particular women he came in contact with and think about what it would be like to have sex with them. When he actually did it he was high. He does admit that somewhere in the back of his mind he deliberately put himself in the position of being alone with the OW so he could see what it was like to have sex with forbidden fruit. I think he needed to be high to actually go through with it though. I don`t think it just happened, he set it up.<p>He insists that he did it only once. He says that the sex was terrible. I guess being drunk/stoned didn`t help matters much. He says that the sex was such a letdown that he immediately regretted what he did. To my understanding that says to me that if the sex was great then he would not have regretted it. He most likely would have done it again. He says that the whole ONS scenario was a huge disappointment, not at all like his male friends described. And the OW was in no way shape or form his dream girl, he chose her because he knew she was a "sure thing".<p>I am wondering if the men who do cheat ever tell one another that it wasn`t worth it. Are they too hung up on male pride to tell one another that the price you end up paying for the ultimate sexual thrill is NOT worth it. Are men capable of admitting this to one another before their wives have found out and they are on the brink of a divorce? <p>I am afraid that he will do it again one day. If the right girl does come along, the type of girl that my H would feel was a "dream girl" what would stop him from trying once again to have that ultimate thrill. How many of your friends really learned their lesson in all of this?<p>Since you are a man and have male friends do you think that it is possible for a man to cheat, have a bad experience and regret it and vow to never do it again BEFORE his W finds out and confronts him? Are men capable of this?<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</p>

Forbidden Fruit: At the time I thought it was fun. Why not? I didn't think anyone would find out so why not go for it? The high I suppose would be from the game. Getting away with something. The sex was fine. Nothing earth shattering. We were in a car and that has some limitations. It was mostly awkward, but with a few beers it was fun. The motels were a letdown.
We thought a bed would be easier, not so constricting. It was ok. I don't know about other men but the few I have talked to all say the same thing. It wasn't as great as they thought it would be. We do get high on the danger of it all though. The forbidden part makes it a rush. <p>Do men learn without being caught: This I don't know. As long as my wife didn't know I didn't think anyone would get hurt. So I don't think that the reality would have hit me unless I was caught. There were lots of times I would feel alot of guilt, but I thought it had nothing to do with my wife. Until I saw the hurt in her eyes back then, I didn't get it. I got it quick though and my reaction was to lie, deny, twist and bury it for all I was worth. I didn't want to hurt her and get myself in anymore trouble. I think the minute she found out was the single worst moment of my life. I will never forget the look on her face or the feeling in the pit of my stomach. Now that it is back and we are dealing with the lies and ommissions, it hits even harder. But, to tell the truth. I think I would have been happy if the the A ended and she never knew. I don't think I would have ever understood the ramifications of my actions unless I was actually looking at losing her.

Dear A Husband,<p>How could you feel guilt without it having anything to do with your wife? What does that mean?<p>No I don`t think my own H REALLY regretted it until I dug out the truth 3 years after the ONS. He does say however that he did regret it enough not to do it again though BEFORE I got the truth. Is this possible?<p>A few days after my H had his ONS he came to me with a cockamamey cover story. I knew right then and there that he had slept with her. He denied it and continued to deny it for three years. I was eight months pregnant at the time of his ONS. We had a huge fight which caused my placenta to detach and the the baby and I almost died. I do know he felt bad about that. I figure that that more than anything else is what made him regret what he did. I didn`t see ANY signs of regret though until I ferreted out the truth three years after the fact. I don`t know if I should believe him or not that the fact that the experience was not all that he had hoped for was is what really made him regret it. <p>Maybe I am nitpicking here and should just be thankful that for whatever reason that he does regret it. <p>What I don`t understand though is that you sound like an intelligent fellow. My H is an intelligent fellow. You two had to have known that an A would hurt your W. When a man comtemplates having an A does he ever imagine how he would feel if his wife had an A? Did you ever think about that? How can men convince themselves that A`s won`t have very serious consequences? Do men think that if their W`s do find out about it that it won`t be a really big deal? Do they think that buying some flowers and saying they are sorry will fix everything only to find out on d-day that the A was a much bigger deal to their wives than they had thought it would be? I am wondering if my own H might have thought this until he saw me get so worked up at the mere suspicion of an A. <p>My H sounds very much like you, he says that he regrets it and it will never happen again. In all honesty has it ever crossed your mind to do this again? Even if you have no intention of ever doing it again do you ever think about it? Have you been completely cured of ever even imagining doing this again? How can a woman tell if her H has really learned his lesson?<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</p>

A Husband,<p>I have another question for you. And it's one I'm sure you have anticipated.<p>Didn't you ever think about contracting and therefore sharing an STD with your W when in the A???<p>There are STD's out there that lend no outward or telling signs, and usually those are the more lethal ones.<p>Since this is what I've sadly heard referred to as "Sport's Sex", don't you fear that the OW in this case has done this several times before, who knows what those OP's sexual habits or orientation were. <p>Don't any of these male friends of yours think about these very real risks, risks they are thoughtlessly placing upon innocent parties (spouses)?<p>Jo<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

I agree with Resilient, what is going through your mind when you sleep with a stranger without a condom and then come home to your wife? My WH just shrugged and said he never thought about it. BTW, my brother died of AIDS contracted from an affair. This is a really sore subject to me... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Ladysing

Feeling Guilty: Yeah I felt guilt, but brushed it aside. My wife was happy she didn't know and since I wasn't planning on leaving, I didn't think she was in the line of fire.<p>I would not like it at all if my wife did what I did. <p>Didn't I think of her? No. I never thought she would find out.<p>STD's. Another no. In 1988, and where I am from, it wasn't as prevalent as it is now, or we were not as educated as we are now. My wife brings that one up to me alot.

I went back to your first post and it says the affair happened in 1988? Is that right? If thats the right year then it's been 14 years. That just seem like such a long time to still be dealing with these issues. I know an affair is something you never forget but at some point there is some kind of closure; you divorce or you move forward with your marriage.

KalGrl<p>The post also says that it was kept pretty much under wrap until earlier this year. I remember the when A Husband first came here earlier this year. Since they had not handled it years ago, it's as though the affair happened at that time. D-day, the d-day when all comes to light, is the day when the BS starts to handle the ramifications of the affair. For her it's as thougth the affair happened this year. To know that a lie has been lived for that many years can be very devistating.

A Husband,<p>Here is alink to one to today's threads that you might find interesting. It may shed some light on what your wife is going through.<p>I doubt that her asking you the questions is about extracting revenge. In most cases it's about the BS trying to get some understanding, some closure and trying to get rid of that sick feeling in our gut.<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=014873<p>I have a longer post I've been writing to you. But between work, kids and my mom in the hospital have not finished it yet. This is a very interesting thread.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Responded to by A Husband:
STD's. Another no. In 1988, and where I am from, it wasn't as prevalent as it is now, or we were not as educated as we are now. My wife brings that one up to me alot.<hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
Don't any of these male friends of yours think about these very real risks, risks they are thoughtlessly placing upon innocent parties (spouses)?<hr></blockquote><p>A Husband,<p>Thanks for answering the STD question, appreciate it and your patience with us.<p>Although, I did notice you didn't answer the question regarding STDs and your buddies that have A's. Can you tell us what their thoughts are on contracting STDs. Do they think they're exempt, or are they simply in denial of the inevitable looming RISK.<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

I should probably keep my opinion to myself, but...this is a public forum.<p>Frankly, I find your treatment of women dispicable! You have remorse (or at least sorry you got caught) for your W. And yet you have not taken the blame. You blame the OW! What a bunch of crap. She drugged and raped you right? She MADE you tell her you loved her. She made you ACT like you cared for her. How disgusting. You USED this women and now have the nerve to blame her. She sounds like she is far from innocent, but nobody deserves to be used. And from what you have written she was in pretty bad emotional shape before you used and discarded her without regard.<p>What you have said is worse, far worse than a man who respects women and strayed from his marriage. You used her for your selfish sexual needs. How low is that? And then you boast about it here and want sympathy? She at least aparently had some feelings for you, which you took advantage of. Perhaps this is why your wife is struggling so with this. I would be. I would not want to be married to a man who could treat another human like a kleenex. And then BLAME them!

The question was raised about the amount of time that has passed since the A. I agree with the comment that while many years may have passed, the day that the affair is discovered or revealed is the day that the BS starts this nightmare. The WS may have been able to put this behind him or her but please remember that D-day is when it begins for the WS! In my case, 13 years had passed, this time had dulled the feelings about the A for my WH, and he had a hard time understanding that it was not just the A, but the 13 years of deceit that were tearing me apart! The lying really did compound the pain of the A and I would give anything to have this just a memory from 13 years ago also. Prayers to all, Ladysing

Amazed,
I agree with you on this but ya know, the ws say
what the bs want to hear at this stage of their game. How would it look if he were to say the op
was smart, attractive, that he had feelings for her? He's doing what he has to do to save his own azz. Sad, isn't it?

OnlyHuman <p>You have not been around here long have you? It seems that many WS say exactly that... they have feeling for the OP who is beautiful/handsome, wonderful, smart, etc.<p>In the case of A Husband, he dropped the OW like a hot cake when his wife found out. That speaks of him telling the truth. I've known plenty of men who have the 'sex as a sport' type of affair.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by A husband:
<strong>I do have some advice or I can tell you how my wife got me to answer the tough questions. She would ask me something like, did you tell her you loved her. I would say no. Then she would tell me it made no sense. She would explain why it didn't make sense then I would come clean. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>This does not work with my H. I can demonstrate to a mathematical certainty that what he is claiming does not add up or make any sense, and he will STILL lie about it.<p>My posts about this if nothing else might make for entertainment--hope what I'm going through is good for SOMETHING!<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=005644<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Amazed, Only Human:<p>You guys are awful, you really are. This poor fellow is trying to make amends and you are hammering him. Shame on you both. People screw up--are they not allowed to try to rectify their mistakes, no matter how vile, and try to change their lives? <p>Hey, look. I have been on both sides of the fence. I am the betrayed spouse in this marriage, and it's been the worse thing that has ever happened to me. Sure, I love my husband and I want things to become better. But I am mad. Four years later, and I find myself still punishing my husband for committing adultery, so I guess I am one to talk. But really, it's the brave words of this gentleman who started the thread that helps a BS understand and cope with the betrayal in their own lives. I am happy that he has posted.<p>Let me tell you something: Thirteen years ago, I was the WS in my first marriage. I married very young to a man who had no ambition and wanted a mommy to care and provide for him. Incident after incident piled up, so when I had the opportunity, I left him for another man. Did not even have sex with the OM, I just took off with him. Period. End of story.<p>Every flippin day, I pay for my mistake. Every other day, I cry. I ask God constantly "When will I be done suffering for what I did? When is it enough?"<p>See, I lost my two daughters--I was in the army, a private making $600 a month and I was on orders to Korea. My ex was able to just take them away from me as easy as pie, and I have fought tooth and nail ever since to have a relationship with my little girls, let alone scrape up enough money to pay the child support. This situation has lent a hand in my chaotic second marriage in every way--employment issues, geographic location, relationship with my third child, love and trust issues with my second husband, you name it. Every day I pay for my sin, and every day I pray for forgiveness and mercy and understanding. I am so so sorry. Had I known the ramifications, the consequences, of what I was to do thirteen years ago, it never would have happened. I can never express my regret enough.<p>But to see me thirteen years ago, you would have seen me a different way: I was bullheaded, full of myself, fixated on my own cuteness, having not a care in the world except when it came to me and my business. Oh, sure I loved my children. But it took losing them to see how deeply I did--paradise lost.<p>I see now what I have done because it was done to me. I fully see the hurt and pain that I caused because I have suffered so greatly because of my husband's affair, and the shame, the shame of what I did, is overwhelming. It's a double whammy. It's like reporting a diamond ring was stolen from you, and then having to admit that the reason you had it was because you stole it from someone else. It hurts all the more.<p>Don't slam on "Husband" because now he is trying to work through his past. Maybe he was a jerk in 1988--how about you guys? Were you lily white with a perfect head on your shoulders? Were all your thoughts logical and reasonable? Haven't you done anything you regret and now are pleading for fogiveness now that you realize the pain of what you have done? I thought you guys were here to help?!!!!!! Jeeeeeze!<p>I find his story very helpful. I am a betrayed wife--when I found out that my husband was cheating, I, too, blew our savings on presents for myself. I guess to make me feel better, to fill that void, to boost my hammered self-esteem (you know, girl stuff: new clothes, manicures, designer handbag, expensive hair treatments--I had to cut off all my hair because I ruined it by dying it all different colors, self-help books.) <p>When my husband screws up, sometimes I blow my top. If he doesn't come to bed, I find myself saying "You didn't fall asleep on the couch when Melissa was in the house, did you?" If I find a woman's name on a scrap of paper in the house, I freak out (he has a lot of business contacts--but how am I supposed to know who's who?) If he's not "in the mood," I think automatically "Oh, you wanted it from her, but you are too tired for me."<p>I am trying so hard to forgive, but the triggers are tremendous. I can identify with "Husband's" wife's anger, even in light of what I did in the past. I know, it doesn't even make sense. <p>You know, I was thinking to myself the other day that there are people in the world that are so great: doctors who find cures for diseases, politicians who govern societies, musicians that compose wonderful music, artists that fill our lives with beauty. But what about the rest of us "average people?" What is our mission in life? Sometimes I think that the greatest possible thing that some of us can do in this life, our Magnum Opus, if you will, is to forgive another person that has caused us pain. And we all know that sometimes, a great work takes many years to accomplish.<p>I know that I am one to talk, folks, when it comes to Miss Kitty and my rotten husband, but please be merciful to people that are honestly trying to admit their mistakes and work through their past, ok?<p>]<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bernzini ]</p>