Lexx,<p> Forgive me Lexx. I feel I must tell you something I have felt about you. I may be way off the mark with this one. And I have admitted that I sound an awful lot like your H on some things.<p> You said on my ring thread something that jumped out at me. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I don't think I'll wear it again. It makes me very sad.<hr></blockquote> <p> I know I am one of those emotional BSes who just doesn't seem to get it. But I read every post that you make. I have since our very first introduction to each other when I blasted you for your stance on the state of your marriage. Remember? You very nearly left the boards over my seemingly uncaring, BS biased answer to how you thought about stuff.<p> You(and others) schooled me in how I looked about things. Anyway, for some reason I now read everything you write and search for some hope that you may have some love left for your H.<p> I guess I just wanted to ask you to take a look at what you wrote again. Lexx, I feel like you do still love your H. Otherwise why get sad? (I know, a stretch)<p> I know you are giving strong consideration to divorce. Would/could you think about a real seperation, without OM or any OM, before you take that big step? <p> I know. Who am I to ask such a thing? It is just that I see love in between the words you say. <p> Feel free to tell me off....again....lol.<p> jd

JD -- thanks...you've been a sweetheart lately!<p>Anyway if you read everything I write then you've seen me in just about every mood I own! You've seen me angry, crabby, and maybe today the right word is melancholy.<p>You can't spend as many years of your life with someone as you or I have without having memories of good times, bad times, sad times etc.<p>Your post about rings made me think back to that point in my life. I was soooo proud of my ring. And so happy and sure of myself. I was soooo sure when he proposed. No doubt ever popped into my mind. And now looking back I find that I have to adjust my thoughts. I feel like my view is now slanted. Or its now a kaleidescope. I don't think I've fully processed how all this new information changes things.<p>We've never really dealt with H's affair. I can't see how we ever will -- so its all left to me to figure out how I feel about it now.<p>This isn't WS revisionist history. (I know WS tend to re-write history to suite their feelings)
But I honestly feel that the fact that H had and concealed an affair from me SHOULD prompt me to relook at who we were as a couple. I think that his actions had a lot to do with the breakdown of our relationship (or maybe the non-development of our relationship).<p>Isn't it possible for a WS to have feelings for their spouse? I do. I care. I don't want to be his wife anymore though. But I still want good things for him. I want him to succeed. I wish him well in his personal journey -- (selfishly that benefits my children)<p>But as for loving him or wanting to be his wife? No, those feelings don't exist in me right now. When I look at him I don't see passion or desire or wish for an intimacy of our minds.<p>But I do I have to "hate" him in order for divorce to make sense?

Hey Jdmac,<p>For what it is worth, I too detected love feelings for her H within Lexxx's words on the "ring thread".<p>Jo

Lexx,<p>I fear that you and my W might have a lot in common as to your feelings for your H.<p>I asked this of you in another thread, but I'd already been pretty hard on you, so maybe you ignored me (and rightfully so [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ). So, I'll ask here and see if you can help.<p>Many of the feelings that you are describing towards your H, are the very same that my W has said she holds for me (though we've not been here for NEARLY as long as you have). She says that she cares for my wellbeing, is sorry that she's hurt me, has "brotherly" love for me, but doesn't see any romantic possibilities, not "in love", not sure if she wants to spend the rest of her life with me, won't commit to anything, etc....<p>Lexx, what I want to avoid is for her to get comfortable in those feelings. If there are things that I can DO or NOT DO that would help, I want to. Can you try to search deep down and try to find something, ANYTHING that would have helped, would have made a differnce way back when you moved to the couch?<p>You don't have any idea how much that would mean to me.<p>I've made some incredible changes in myself, I've found my way out of my depression, I've learned to love life and myself (and my wife) again. I want to make things right for her. I've hurt her in so many ways, I don't even know where to begin to make amends.<p>Please help me in this before her feelings become TOO comfortable.<p>Thank you eternally,
Kev

of course you do not have to hate him lexxy. What gets mixed up here all the time is caring (love), and passionate love.....many can make a marriage on caring love, and that is indeed a choice. Others require something different, described as passion (for wont of a better word), but is really a recognition of lots of bonding things. It is quite possible to like, and care about someone, even alot, but recognize you do not want to be in a spousal relationship..... not cause they are bad people, but because the fit is hurtful and stressful for them both.... why? Who knows, but if love was just a decision, we would not have these issues, so something else important, even vital is present. Is so much easier when it is black and white (someone is a major abuser, or extremely dysfunctional), but it is all the same, it is a continuum of fit, and each draw the line where they must....those who draw it one place (like maybe you JD), see no reason why lexxy can't be "happily" married.... and others who draw the line in a different place (like me), have no trouble understanding at all. And it is sad when people are married who draw the line in quite different places, what do you do then? That is what it always boils down too, do both have to be on the same page, or does one sacrifice and move their line to match the other. That is really what most of this is all about, where and why we draw the lines we draw, to give ourselves to another, to wake up next to them everyday for the rest of our lives, it is the most serious decision we have to make, and it has to be made completely selfishly.<p>jd, wasn't it you that had the pearl bailey quote, that fits this perfectly?<p>[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

This Love stuff is crazy.
You will never make me believe that its a decision.<p>I see two roads in front of me. And believe me, I know which one is the nice easy one. But "deciding" on that path will not make me feel "love". It just won't. I personally would really enjoy hearing from another WS who has felt the way I have for 3 years tell me that its possible to fall back in love. <p>Kev -- I don't think you'll end up where I am. Even my H would tell you that this evolved over years of neglect.<p>I told H too that its seems like everyone in my world wants me to follow that one path. I told H that its like no one wants to hear how I feel -- my feelings just don't matter. As long as I go with the program, everyone is happy. <p>Which, darnit, is how we probably got to this place to begin with. Me making everyone else happy but me.<p>Kev -- read Give & Take. It is the Harley book that resonates most with me.

Lexxy-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I don't think you'll end up where I am. Even my H would tell you that this evolved over years of neglect.<p>I told H too that its seems like everyone in my world wants me to follow that one path. I told H that its like no one wants to hear how I feel -- my feelings just don't matter. As long as I go with the program, everyone is happy. <p>Which, darnit, is how we probably got to this place to begin with. Me making everyone else happy but me. <hr></blockquote><p>Lexxy, do you have ANY IDEA how many of those things my W has said to me in the last three months? If I had tape recorded her, I'd bet that these are some EXACT QUOTES!<p>I DID neglect her for the last 4 years (on an ever increasing level) after my EA, and through my depression.<p>Everyone DOES want her to follow this SAME path, me, her family, our pastor, Steve...<p>And basically, for all of her life, she's been doing what EVERYONE wants so as not to "rock the boat." That's a learned trait from her mother, by the way. She repressed many of her feelings over the last four years because during my EA, I told her that when she "nagged me", scolded me, etc... it made me feel like leaving (nice guy, huh?).<p>That man was NOT ME! But it affected her deeply, and she has in INCREDIBLE amount of resentment (much like you, I would guess).<p>Lexx, I fear with each new post that you make that we WILL end up on the same road that you're walking.<p>What can/could help that?<p>I know that eventually, I'd be ok if that were the case, but it's by no means what I want or intend.<p>Thanks,
Kev

Kev -- gosh I wish I had answers for you. <p>Your wife is home. Are you planning any counseling? <p>H and I tried. Its funny though, cuz although I was willing to make some effort and be open-minded I was always guarded too.<p>H had the whole recovery planned out and was just waiting for me to accept my place in the plan -- then everything would be perfectly fine. There was only one acceptable outcome.<p>I wanted to feel as though he was at least willing to EXPLORE or CONSIDER that the outcome might be that we decided to separate. I wanted to feel like he was willing to look at all outcomes, not just the one he wanted. And I never got that from him.<p>If you read SnL's posts, I wanted to analyze the whole relationship good and bad. I thought that was the process through which I could release my anger, forgive, move on. I wanted to reach a point of deciding together if this worked for both of us. And it NOT working, had to be a viable option at the end. I did not want to feel locked into only one solution. I know thats not really the MB way. And that feeling of having only one acceptable outcome caused me to rebel against working in that program.

Lexx,<p>Our paths steer nearer and nearer. Just in the last day or two, when W was describing her feelings she said something like the following: If you'd have said just once that you'd be willing to let me go, I wouldn't feel like I do right now (basically trapped). The funny thing is, I DID say those very words (even though I didn't mean them, and I proved that several hours later). I've continually assured her that ALL I want is for the two of us to be happy (I think implied in that is that maybe that means we divorce). Sure, I've been hesitant to even SPEAK the D word but it's always been a possibility and I haven't denied that.<p>I don't understand how telling the one that you love that you're willing to let them divorce you is supposed to draw them back to you. I guess it could be the whole cut the baby in half thing, but it still makes no sense to me.<p>K

Lex, When I read your reply to the ring thread, I too was moved by your response. Please don't discount the feelings that you have. Cherish them, embrace them, re-ignite...I really believe that the only thing standing in your way is fear. <p>Fear of giving yourself up to him again.<p>Don't let fear stop your recovery. Please.<p>You sound like an incredible person and have helped me in so many ways.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>JD -- thanks...you've been a sweetheart lately! <p>Anyway if you read everything I write then you've seen me in just about every mood I own!
You've seen me angry, crabby, and maybe today the right word is melancholy.<hr></blockquote><p> Yes, I have seen those things in your posts... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But I do I have to "hate" him in order for divorce to make sense?<hr></blockquote><p> Of course not Lexx. Nor to seperate from him. I guess that was what I wanted to say or point out. That divorce is so final. Perhaps a real seperation would be a better first step for the two of you.<p> Sort of like giving you both one last chance at falling back in love. I know it is a stretch on my part. More BS fog(which I do believe BS have).<p> I don't have much time to respond to each of your points nor each of you who posted as I have to be at work in an hour(night shift).<p> I do want to say to you and snl that I agree with you completely on love not being a choice. For myself, if I could have chosen to no longer love WS, I would have done so long ago. For sure after D-Day #2. <p> Now I do believe that the choices we make can either cause love to grow back, or for the BS help it recede. If you will look beyond what this site and many of the BS believe you will see that Plan A/B is just as much about helping the BS lose love for the unrepentant WS as it is about rebuilding the marriage.<p> If the WS recommits to the M, the site/information is GREAT. If the BS loses their love and is no longer in pain, the site/information is GREAT. So while the Harleys are all about rebuilding marriages, they are also about letting go and having some sort of normal life without WS.<p> Sorry to ramble. I just wanted to point out that I see the love you have for your H, Lexx. I ask myself if there are some other choices you could make to help that love grow. Of course you have to see what I seem to see for that to make sense.<p> jd<p>[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</p>

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