asks me how I'm doing today. With genuine concern over my state of mind and well being. <p>We had some exceptionally hard and ugly days a couple of weeks ago. I became physically ill from the ugliness that we threw at each other. He is (or seems) to be very worried about my physical well being. <p>Asking me if I've eaten, if I'm eating the right things. Encouraging me, nicely, to get back to the gym, to get out with friend. <p>He also seems to be worried about my mental well being. He asked last night, how are you doing, with all of this concern in his voice, looking me straight in the eye. <p>I just don't know how to answer. I generally just try and smile and say I'm OK. Should I tell him the truth. One of his complaints about our M is a lack of my communicating to him when I am unhappy, or sad. That I bottle everything up inside. Well, I used to, but since Dday I have pretty much let every emotion I have come out in flying colors, if not flying objects.<p>I am trying to gain control over how I express myself to him. My anger and hurt have been to fresh to deal very well with him. Every time we would try and "talk" I would get over emotional and either cry my eyes out, beg him to give us another chance or get so angry I would say wharever I could to hurt him.<p>So, I guess that I am just not sure if he really wants to know the truth, if he feels guilty and is trying to make himself feel like a better person or what. <p>I don't know, this turned into a big ramble. Sorry.<p>BTW, for thase of you who responded to my post yesterday about the movie. I did not do anything about it last night. I am kind of sitting back and watching him right now for any other signs. Part of it is fear, that I may be pushing him away when he is becoming just a little bit closer to me. Part of it is desperatly wanting to believe him. Part of it is the fact that I am hoping he chooses to stay and work on our M and my accusing him of lying to me (just on the slightest off chance he's not) will push him out the door. He is sleeping in our bed again, after being in the spare room for about 2 weeks.<p>Just a confused and bewildered BS,
Needing

If you want your WS to be honest with you then you in turn need to be honest with him.<p>I don't think anyone asks how you are without really wanting to know....otherwise they wouldn't ask.<p>Be honest with him. If you are having a bad day....let him know that you are having an "off" day. If you're having a good day definately let him know.
Let him know everything.....doubts, fears, hopes.<p>He can't really be comfortable being honest with you unless you are comfortable being honest with him.

Absolutely, you have to be honest with him.<p>But to ensure that it's not an LB (being emotional, that is), maybe ask him first if he REALLY wants to know. If he says yes, then by all means tell him how you feel.<p>That's probably the MOST important thing when/if you two enter recovery.<p>Prayers,
Kev

Needing, I'm sorry I had forgotten your story when I posted to you the other day. Zorweb gave some awesome advice on how to work the lying thing w/o LBing. <p>Now, you mentioned on the other post that if he was back with OW or was dating another woman that this would be it - you're done. He's out.<p>But, your words don't follow your actions. By not confronting him about the tickets, you are avoiding setting your boundaries because you fear you will have to put them in place.<p>When I first posted, I thought for some reason that your H was on the fence and you were plan Aing him. I did not realize that you were starting reconciliation and he had promised no contact and IF that contact continued, you were ready for plan B.<p>If it really is the 2nd way, then you need to confront him about it and stand up for yourself, your boundaries and your commitment to yourself. If it's the first way and he's on the fence, well, I see pro's and con's for both avoiding and confronting.<p>As for telling him how you feel... My gut says be honest and tell him when you are down if he asks. BUT, with plan A, you should be working on yourself, so that ultimately he can see you growing, getting better, and being stronger. That is really your goal, become a better you so you can honestly tell him you are doing fine.<p>Hugz,
HbH

Miss Priss and Kevco,<p>OK, my job then is to work on being honest about my feelings and "how I'm doing" without turning it into a big ol LB and showing anger and frustration.<p>hurtbyhubby,<p>I know, my situation can be confusing. I am trying to do a better Plan A. Working on myself and controlling all of my LB behaviour, I have hit them all in the last three months, angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments...all of them. <p>After carefully reviewing my behaviour, I can see that I have made a very poor Plan A effort. I recognise that I have been in a introspective stage, trying to identify the areas of my life that need shaking up and change, and am just now coming to a stage where I am ready to take action. (Sounds a little like SnL there) <p>However, not one week has gone by where we have not had a huge, emtional and ugly blow up. This needs to change. Neither one of us can stand it anymore.<p>We are not in reconciliation, he is technically not fence sitting in that he has stated that he is moving out and that he is going to start looking for a place this week. Well, he had said in mid-Dec that he was going to start looking for a place 1st of Jan. He has admitted that he has'nt started. I have told him that if he can't give me the things I need in order to rebuild my trust in him, if he can't let me be part of his life again, and make me and our M a #1 priority then I need him to leave for my own sanity.<p>So, we are not in reconciliation, I am in Plan A and hope to continue to be even after he moves out. As far as what he is actually intending to do, I am in limbo land. He says one thing, but has taken no action to back it up. If I ever do find out that he is involved with ... her...(not the word I really wanted to use, but trying to be nice) I would be done trying. And yes, the fear of knowing for sure is probably a large part of the reason I did not push the story about the movie and the tickets. I am still contemplating it. It's just really hard to rock the boat when he is being kind and caring. Blah, I don't even make sense to myself sometimes.<p>Needing

You know, my H would ask me all the time "what's wrong". It almost became funny. He knew dam* WELL what was wrong... Even last night (look below, we're getting a D) he was trying to be cheery buddy to me. I wasn't smiling and answering him. He got really close to me and said "am I making you sad?" I just put my hand up as to get him to back off and I said "nope!" See, my H REALLY at the time wanted to hear that I was FINE. However, he knew that I was NOT fine. He knew WHY I wasn't fine and he was a dork to even ask. Now your H may genuinely be concerned about you and I might be all wrong, but I think they want us to be o.k., because it saves them some guilt. Just my opinion. I mean, I've lost 65 pounds, halg a head of hair, can't sleep, and he asks me how I'm doing?????<p>Sorry, I guess I just sort of needed to vent.<p>MOM<p>[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Myownme ]</p>

I can definatly see your point, MOM. I know WH has alot of guilt, and I'm sure it would be easier for him if I was really "just fine". And some days I actually am. I've lost 25 pounds and was at a point where I was throwing up every day. I don't do that anymore at least. I can now keep what I eat down. <p>I really do think he is generally concerned about me. You all know the line....I love you, but I'm not in love with you....uh oh, I feel lunch coming back up [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Needing

Hi needing. Gotcha. Well here is my take, please do whatever with it, I am just hoping it helps.<p>You are not in reconciliation. Your H has said he's moving out and he obviously went to the movies the other day with OW. His actions are not giving you any reason to believe that his affair is over. <p>It doesn't seem to me like you really know what your boundaries are. One time you say you'd go to plan B if he was with her, than other times it's plan A but he's out of the house, and still other times you are just outright denying that his affair is still on so you can push the pain away and not have to deal with it.<p>The most important thing you can do for yourself now is to work on setting those boundaries. Are you really serious about implementing plan B if you had definate proof he is with her, or would you just be angry and use it as a way to push it all away and not deal with it? To make the pain stop?<p>Plan B is not to be used lightly, and is a very serious step to take. Before you even want to consider going there, YOU must be able to handle the consequences. You must be strong enough to know that YOU will survive and YOU will make your life better with or without your husband. It sounds easy, but if you are not in that place, if you do not feel secure enough to know you can make it without him, then you will fail at plan B.<p>BUT, you can get to that place with a good plan A, (plan A is for you not your H), which is why it is essential for you to stay focused on doing that , so that you can go to plan B if your H was to deplete your love bank enough and step over that boundary which you define while in a good plan A.<p>Am I making sense at all? You are letting your H's actions/inactions control your life and what you say/do/feel/think is all based on your reaction that day to your H, a trigger, etc. <p>You need to take control of your life, decide what you want, what you need to heal and get through this. If that is plan B, then so be it (it was for me), as long as your plan B is not revenge, not to get your H back, and not avoidance. It is what you need to heal. Do it for you, because your love bank is too low, not for him or as a reaction to something he does/did. If you can do that, if you can get to that place, then I think it would be a good decision for you to make. <p>The point is, your plan A can't bring your H back, a plan B can't bring your H back. Your goal now is not to bring your H back, it CAN'T BE, cuz' you are not empowered to do that. Only your H can make the choice to come back, and you have about a 0% chance of recovering if you stay in his web and allow him that much control over your life. <p>Things have to change. You can do your part, and that's it. You will survive this, you will heal, and you will become a stronger, healthier woman in the long run. Don't lose sight of that. I can't foresee what type of life your H will have, but it is all in his hands now and you have to let go...<p>That doesn't mean give up on your marriage, it simply means work on the one thing you do have control over in the marriage - you. <p>I know that was sort of long-winded, but I hope it helped, even a little, or a small piece here or there. <p>HbH

HbH,<p>OK, just read your post, twice. Thank you for taking the time and energy for such a thoughtful, concerned reply. Let me see if I can put down here where I'm at and what we are doing/not doing.<p>My H has said that he is moving out. <p>I know we are not in reconciliation. <p>I am beginning a new and improved Plan A, this one is about me. I don't actually think I was ever in a Plan A as I have not been strong enough to take any actions. I have been reading alot, thinking alot, but not coming to any conclusions or doing anything about it. It's time for action. I have gotten back in touch with some friends I have here, very few of those. I have only lived here a couple of years, and one of those I was depressed and withdrawing from the world. BTW, this is the time where I pushed my H away and basically wanted nothing to do with him.<p>So now Plan A is about me. I am no longer trying to win my H back. I know I can't. I have told him point blank that he cannot live here without making a commitment to try and make our M work.<p>Counceling w/Harleys. Taking the steps I need him to take so that I can begin to rebuild my trust in him. I have spelled them out. I have conceded to him that I am willing to deal with the fact that they work together, but, I need to know that I can stop in at the office any time without calling first. I need to know that there will be no social situation that she is attending that I am not also invited to. Basically, if I can't go he can't go. He needs to show me that he has told her that he has chosen to work on our M and therefore they can no longer be friends. She is not to send him any more e-mails. No outside of office contact at all. (kind of a no contact letter, but I know they will see each other at work.)<p>For some deluded reason, he thinks they can be friends and I absolutly can't handle that. I told him it's a slap in the face and disrespectfull to me. He can either be her friend or my husband but not both.<p>We did discuss the movie thing again. I believe him. I know that this is a stretch for people, but I do. He said he did not pick up the stub from a urinal, he was at the movie early and went to the bathroom, had lost his stub and wanted to go outside for a smoke, saw the stubs on top of a urinal and took them so he could get back in. I know that this can still smell fishy, but I do believe him.<p>I have asked him, if he moves out and starts seeing her again, would he tell me. He said yes. I can only hope he does. I do not think the PA is on right now. I think the EA is slowly dissapating. But I'm not sure on that one. I will continue to Plan A as long as there is no PA. But I will have nothing to do with him if the PA resumes.<p>Last night was the first time in a while that he said "if I stay". I made sure he understood that the only way he could stay was to agree to the things I have stated as my boundaries. He is thinking on them. I have given him no timeline, but I am going to talk to him, as non-confrontationaly as possible, about this again tonight.<p>So, I hope I make a little more sense now. I am bewildered and confused but trying to piece my life back together. I told him last night that the choice of whether or not we try to reconcile is now his. He knows where I stand. He knows I love him. I told him that the decision is his, what I do with his decision is mine. If he leaves I will be OK, yes it will hurt, but, I had a life before him, a pretty good one at that, and I will have a life after him.<p>That's me for now. Good Lord I hope I make sense.<p>Needing

Hi Needing. Sounds much stronger than before, that is good!<p>Mind a few more observations??<p>If you choose to believe him on the movie thing - so be it, it is your choice. Couple of questions:
1. Is he saying he HAPPENED to find 2 tickets to the exact movie he was going to go see on top of a urinal BEFORE HE EVEN WENT IN TO THE MOVIE? So some guy bought two tickets, was also at the movies early, went to the bathroom and left the same ticket stubs he would need to get in to the movie on the urinal? And he had to pick up both of them, because... there happened to be 2? He didn't just pick up one?? And, forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't MOST men, just tell the attendant at the movie that they wanted to go get a smoke and lost their stub so could he please let them back in when he came back?<p>AND, what did he go see? Was it a chick flick? AND he's saying he actually goes to the movies alone, unplanned, because? He was bored? He really wanted to see this wonderful movie and couldn't find any guy friends to go with, so he went alone instead?<p>I respect your decision to believe him though. I would have bet everything I had that my H was telling me the truth about not kissing OW when he was EA, HE LOOKED ME IN THE EYE, he was so confident, so sure, had so many reasonings, and answers that I couldn't refute, until I heard her tell me over the phone. CRASH. Pretty stupid of me when I look back... It was all in front of me - I had my blinders on.<p>I pray that you are right, I really do, you don't need any more pain, it just seems SO unbelievable...<p>Boundaries are not what he needs to do to stay. Boundaries are known only to you and they are what you will or will not live with in your life. <p>It sounds like your real boundary is that OW needs to be out of your life, and if that means H is out of your life because he cannot keep her out of his, then so be it. If he wishes to re-commit to the marriage, then you have your list of suggestions on how he can prove to you that she is gone.<p>Your husband has to choose to do the things on your list because he wants to, not because he is reacting to a demand you are making and is afraid of losing you. In the 2nd case, he will do JUST ENOUGH to sneak by and manage to stay fence-sitting. <p>From the tone of your post, it sounds like the owness is all on him. He HAS to do this stuff to prove he is serious to you and only those things will do. Him, him, him. Not I statements that say what you are doing and what you need. AND YOU ARE WAITING FOR HIS CHOICE BEFORE YOU MOVE ON.<p>But, really, what you need is to be strong enough to just go on - regardless of what he does or what his choices may be. And that means a good, strong plan A.<p>Now, IF your H decides to re-commit, then great, you have tons of suggestions on how he can prove he is serious this time. And, if he is serious, he will do them. It may take some time, and they won't get done exactly as you imagined or wanted, but he'll get the job done his way - if he is serious.<p>Are the Harley's saying something similar? Once your H has made the commitment to work on the marriage, then the list is applicable, and not before. It is not what he does to commit to the marriage, it is what he does to prove to you that he has made that commitment.<p>I am glad you have decided to start over on a good plan A for yourself with no care or concern of how it affects your husband.<p>I hope you are doing well in your counseling sessions. My affair-situation is nothing compared to what the real issues are in my marriage, so, I still have a long way to go myself...<p>I am excited though, my H re-starts IC in 2 days. We have progressed to the point where that is the only way to move forward now.<p>HbH

Hi HbH<p>OK, no it wasn't a chick flick. Behind Enemy Lines. And yes, I do still believe him. I know that may be stupid of me, but I do.<p>My H is definatly not going to do the things I ask of him until he is ready and wants to. I know this. I just wanted him to understand what those things are. We talked again last night and I explained that I simply could not live with a H who did not put my feelings above those of all others. I did not mention her specifically, but he knew.<p>He is on this strange journey of his own. He is confused beyond belief. He is at a stage where he is questioning every aspect of his life and convictions. He told me just before we drifted to sleep that he just doesn't know who he is anymore. That he doesn't like who he is becoming. I told him that I wished I could help him but that I knew that this is something he has to figure out on his own. I will be there for him if he needs me or wants me, but he has to travel this road and find his answers his way.<p>I have to let go. I can't educate or help him with this. The most disturbing comment he made last night was that he did'nt understand why he was having so much trouble cutting the cord. To me. I wanted so much to say, why don't you look at the good reasons to stay then. Quit looking for ways to leave, instead find a way to stay. But I didn't. I just told him that he had to decide this on his own.<p>We actually have not been in counceling for a while now. (I need to update my sig line) I would like him to talk to the Harleys with me but he is resistant. I have sent my request for an appt to them today. I decided that I would do it alone for now and hope he joins me.<p>Yes, I have made alot of this about him. I admitted that to him last night. Tried to explain how debilitating the knowledge of the A was to me. That it was not something I was capable of just picking myself up from in a week or a month. But, that I am getting stronger now. I really do feel alot better. But I know that now is the time to do something about me. I also tried to explain that to him, our marriage being so close to dead, and the knowledge of the A was old news, but I have only been dealing with it since Oct 1. That is not very much time to take all of this information in, assimilate it and try to heal and move on. I am finally getting there, I think. (today anyway)<p>I filled out and gave him the emotional needs and personal history questionarres from this site. The personal history one was important because there were some things that I had kept hidden from my H, about my past, that he has found out recently and he is very upset. He says he thought he knew me better than enyone in the world, but I kept things hidden. He wants a partner who can share everything about themselves. The good the bad and the ugly. He is having trouble forgiving me for hiding these things. I guess I can't blame him.<p>We will truly have to start from scratch if we manage to start over again at all. Until we get there I have to stop focusing on him and start dealing with myself better. I need to learn how to talk to him, how to articulate my feelings, wants and hopes. I've never been very good at that. Not verbally, I can write for ages.<p>Anyway, this has once again, gotten longer than I imagined.<p>Thanks for your reply. It helps sometimes to have your actions and words looked at by a third party so you can see them more clearly. I really do appreciate it.<p>Needing