Last weekend when my wife kind of blamed or got mad at me for not keeping up with what I was supposed to do to help her update her resume, so I got defensive about it. Since then I hardly said anything, of course my face showed that I was not smiling at all. So she asked what&#8217;s with me and said that about the job thing she stated her reason and I stated mine. It was just a miscommunication.<p>Here is the part that I found interesting: she then said, &#8220;Let&#8217;s move on. We are not kids any more, we are in our 40&#8217;s now. Why did you drill on it? The past is the past. I don&#8217;t care if you got upset or I got upset. We will feel better in a day or two anyway. Who can stay upset forever?&#8221; I said to her that I was sorry to make her get upset and then I said we should try to find the way to communicate better in the future. <p> With this remark, I have been thinking about it over night. What about her? What did she mean about moving on? Could it be that she hasn&#8217;t realized that she has not worked on the marriage with me yet? If she hasn&#8217;t drilled on it, the last time I brought up our relationship talk, she still kept saying about feeling dirty and unworthy from what she has done with the OM. Is that the past is the past and let&#8217;s move on to you? I just didn&#8217;t get it.<p>Another thing, I was thinking maybe just out of the blue I move back into &#8220;our&#8221; room and lay myself next to her overnight to see what she would do or say. The worst scenario would be she gets up and sleeps on the sofa or switches to the room that I have been sleeping alone for the last 11 YEARS (that&#8217;s right 11 YEARS not 11 months). Definitely it would be an LB. Here is my reason I was thinking about buying that &#8220;nose stick&#8221;, the thing that you put on your nose to help you breathe better or stop snoring because one of her excuses for not wanting me to sleep in the same room with her was my snoring. She said she NEEDED at least &#8220;that&#8221; 8 hours of sleep to function very well at work. Well, she doesn&#8217;t have the job now, she can sleep all day if my snoring bothers her at night. What do you think? Should I do it?<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO - I don't have a detailed analysis for a recommendation to you on moving back into the room other than to say just do it and let her move to a different room if she wants.<p>But on the "let's move on" logic, it sounds to me like she doesn't want to look in the mirror. She wants to avoid confronting the past problems because she doesn't want to examine her issues. She must be comfortable with the way things are so why upset the status quo?<p>Unless something changes, you'll be in the same situation when your youngest goes away to college and then you can leave her.<p>Of course I don't wish this for you. Does there still seem to be progress, no matter how slight?<p>WAT

OOOO,<p>Do you want to keep living in limbo or do you want a change? <p>Have you call Steve & discussed with him the what has happened over the last few months. sing going into nagging mode, ask my OS, he says I know no other [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>either just do it to quote Nike or live day by day and take what you can from each day

WAT,
That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m going to do this Friday night. I will go to bed in her room with my pillow and blanket (hmmmmm, maybe without a blanket). Why Friday? Well, so that she can stay in bed past 12 noon if she can&#8217;t sleep at night (she normally wakes up at around 11 or 12 noon anyway on weekend).<p>Now about the &#8220;Let&#8217;s move on&#8221; thing, you are right I don&#8217;t think she wants to look in the mirror and see the issue. She is 99% comfortable with the way things are now. The 1% is that I&#8217;m still there with a hope of becoming a husband and a wife again between us in a short period of her healing time. Remember about waiting for her to heal in the next 4 years!!! <p>WAT, I know that too, that unless something changes, I&#8217;ll be in the same situation until my youngest one goes to college. I&#8217;m pretty sure we might end up divorcing by then. If I stay this course, it will be 7 years from now.<p>I think there seems to be progress, but very sloooooooooooow. It is that sloooooow that 4 years might even be faster than that.<p>The bad part is I&#8217;m crazy enough to go along with this so far. I still don&#8217;t know exactly why. Is it because of my kids or my love to my wife? Did she put a spell on me that I couldn&#8217;t even see anything beyond this after being here (in MB) for almost 2 years and still going nowhere with my situation?

OOOO, Have you read Life Strategies by Dr. Phil Mcgraw?, if not, get it today, that book was written for you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] In it you will fully understand the spell (and ideedm there is a spell) you live under....as for the bed thing, leave her a note on her pillow explaining you need to find out if you still snore too bad, and will be spending the night...and if she really objects, to let you know, but you would really appreciate her help....might add it does not imply anything romantic. btw, if you have a serious snoring problem should probably have a sleep study done, you may have sleep anpnea, a serious and easily correctable (usually) condition....good luck.<p>ps make the note light and humorous, do you see what I am getting at with the note? I think unilaterally changing the status quo after 11 years without any preliminary could be a lot of problems, only one of which she recognizes your macho take charge approach (and likes it on some primal level), IMO that is the least likely outcome, more likely she will feel threatened as you invade her space.<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

OOOOO:<p>You are a marvel of persistance. I agree with SNL here but I also want to elaborate on the sleep study. <p>I had it performed and it was determined I had severe sleep apnea. There is minor surgery and machines that correct the problem. All my snoring is gone (I needed the machine, my apnea was too severe for surgery). W is happy and well rested. I in fact sleep much more restfully and as a result am more productive all round.<p>My best to you.<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: willmakeitwork ]</p>

sing,
Thank you my friend for dropping by. No, I definitely don&#8217;t want to live in limbo for the rest of my life even though it seems that way right now. No, I have not called Steve yet. Keep nagging and soon I may call. Sometimes I NEED a push.<p>Sing, I&#8217;m in a day-by-day mode right now and take whatever I can get or NOT get. It might seem like I&#8217;m at war with my wife emotionally, but I think I&#8217;m much more at peace than before. I hardly think about &#8220;them&#8221; in my head like before. I don&#8217;t feel rage or angry any more. I don&#8217;t remember the last time I had tears in my eyes. It is almost like I can turn it off now. Of course it is still ON sometimes. You know OffOnOnOff. But sometimes there are certain things not related to her affair tick me off and I just feel defensive about. Power struggling I guess.<p>sad_n_lonely,
Thank you for your insight and welcome to my neighborhood. I will check that book out. I heard about it and probably looked at it before. Yep, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m going to do this Friday. I will tell her that I need her help to find out if my snoring is that bad. I think I already know what her answer will be. She might say that she still hears it when she passes my room to go to her room late at night (I go to bed earlier than her).<p>SNL, I don&#8217;t think I have a serious snoring problem at all. She just makes believe or put in my head to make me think that way. It is one of her excuses that she keeps using it to get me away from her. We have traveled to many places before and spent lots of nights in the same hotel room. She didn&#8217;t have any problem with sleeping at all. When I said that to her, she said she was tired to hear my snoring. Because of that, I think snoring is just an excuse, but the root cause of why she doesn&#8217;t want me to be with her in the same room must be deeper than that. That&#8217;s what I NEED to find out before anything could move forward. One thing I know that she didn&#8217;t like how I touched her before, but that was 11 years ago when we used to sleep in the same bed and I have not touched her that way since.<p>Whatever the root cause before and now add her PA on top of it, it is almost like I have to work twice as hard as I could. Somehow I feel like maybe this was her way to get rid of me. I mean to have a reason of dirty and unworthy to get me stay away from her, especially at night. <p>SNL, my wife will definitely feel threatened by my invasion to take over one side of &#8220;our&#8221; bed.

well one thing you can resolve categorically is to video tape yourself while you sleep, sort of a poor mans sleep study [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] the real ones cost about 4-5000 dollars. If you stop breathing regularly, and/or snore hard and move about alot, you may want to follow up. I hear ya though about the "excuse", and now it is a toxic pattern. I am not without some understanding, I left w for 5 years (although it really was snoring too), but she really did not want me there either (although I "visited" on occassion).....the last time I asked to return (and had resolved snoring several years earlier) she told me no, my place belonged to the dog..... this was about 6 months before I wandered, not that that was why I wandered, I was only mildly sad when she said no, I already knew we were done.

Thank you willmakeitwork for sharing your experience.
I was thinking about the surgery before, but somehow my wife said something to discourage me from doing so. She said that one of her friends&#8217; husband had it done and he&#8217;s still snoring (Hmmmmmm, come to think of it, maybe that&#8217;s her intention so that she still could use this as her weapon to block me from moving back to be in the same bed with her. Was that possible? No, I don&#8217;t think so, but then who knows?)<p>I&#8217;m a light sleeper anyway, even with a drop of the pin wakes me up. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] My wife made it sound like I snored from the time I went to bed until the time I woke up. How did she know so well anyway about my snoring? We have not been sleeping in the same bed all night in 11 years. <p>sad_n_lonely,
Thank you for the suggestion about the video. My wife actually said that to me before that she would tape me while I was asleep to prove to me that I was snoring, but she never did. Several years ago, I did wake up suddenly for many nights because I couldn&#8217;t breathe, but that has not happened since. I thought that maybe my weight might have something to do with it. I mean several years ago I was not that slim, maybe about 20 LB more than what I used to be. I&#8217;m not a big guy. I&#8217;m only 5&#8217;6&#8221; and at 165 LB (maybe about 15 LB heavier).<p>This sleeping arrangement that I have had tolerated for all these years has to come to an end. I kept up with it for so long because of the kids. They moved out to their own room more than two years ago. My hope and dream to be next to my wife came through and only disappeared into the thin air right after D-day almost 2 years ago. So my lonely at night continues. I feel your pain in that area. However, I have not wandered around yet.<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

SNL,
Here is a note that I will leave on her pillow:<p>My dear wife,
I have good news and bad news for you tonight. The good news is you will be warm sleeping next to me and helping me finding out how bad my snoring really is. The bad news is you have to find the lyric to go with my snoring sound since you will be awake and listening to my snoring tune.<p>How does that sound to you? Well, I don't think I will write that long.

Ditto SNL [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Can't wait to hear from you on Saturday morning!

Dear OffOnOnOff,
You are the same size & height as my husband! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] He snores so loudly that I can hear him through my earplugs and yet I could not fathom sleeping in separate beds. His snoring is a gentle reminder to me of how fortunate I am to HAVE a husband! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm sorry this is happening to you! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>*sigh*<p>re: you not being kids anymore... Was she incinuating that you are childish to hold grudges about her affair??? Well, what would have ticked me off LONG before the affair would have been getting kicked out of my own bed???? So yeah, I'd say put it behind you then, all 11 years of it! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Reclaim your spot in your bed and together with that love note on her pillow, leave her a package of 33-decibal earplugs!<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Thank you cleopatra,
Wait no more. My update is coming.

Thank you BINthereDUNthat,
I wish my wife would think the way you said about not sleeping in separate beds. To her, somehow it became no big deal at all. She didn&#8217;t see what is wrong with sleeping in separate beds.

It's called taking you for granted! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]