In the following story, I can feel there's a parallel for us BS engineers to our relationships with our WSs. I can't quite put my finger on it - maybe it's a very tenuous parallel - or maybe I just am seeing parallels to BS/WS logic/illogic too easily.<p>Working Team<p>A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces altitude and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."<p>The man below says, "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees North latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees West longitude."<p>"You must be an engineer," says the balloonist.<p>"I am," replies the man. "How did you know?"<p>"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."<p>The man below says, "You must be a manager."<p>"I am," replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"<p>"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."<p>WAT<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

WAT<p>I am not an engineer but I work with an office full of them (I am on the creative end) and I have read several versions of this same joke and it is true...<p>It's like asking an engineer what time it is and they respond by telling you how to build a watch. Which is too much information and you still don't know what time it is. Butthey figure thay have asnwered your question. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, I can't put my finger on it either, but sometimes it all seems so illogical that anything that does parallel it seems to make some sense in some twisted sort of way.... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>E

nowhere in the story did the manager blame the engineer, just pointed out he was still lost. The engineer did not solve the problem (which by implication he took on when he responed) which was getting the manager unlost, implying the engineer was not very perceptive of others needs. However the engineer was trying to be helpful, and did the best he could HIS way, so he had good intentions (though his last response about fault could be taken as elitist re his own specialized knowledge, and/or insensitive to the manager's plight since he chastised him).

WAT,<p>I am an engineer, and that story could not be more realistic. Our salesmen are constantly promising deliveries we cannot meet, telling customers we can make something that we cannot or quoting prices less than our manufacturing costs.<p>In the "perfect" salesman world, we can make anything, and make it faster and cheaper than anyone else.<p>Typical salesman: "Yeah, I know we're selling it for $10 and it costs us $12, but we'll make it up in volume." <p>sad dad

Isn't the balloonist is in his predicament because of decisions HE made? He then chooses to discount the information given by the engineer, because he hasn't made the effort to apply it, or ask for further assistance/clarification? Therefore, it seems that the balloonist is blaming the engineer for his situation. <p>
hmmmm..<p>WS: BS, can you help me? I am in love with another person, and I'm not in love with you anymore, but I have no idea how to get out of my predicament. I don't want to hurt my family, but I love this OP.<p>BS: I love you, and you loved me. Your weakness, and our lack of knowing how to best meet each others' needs, has put you in a difficult situation. You are now sitting on a fence, battling a decision between commitment and fantasy. Most affair relationships don't last.<p>WS: You must believe in marriage, even if unhappy.<p>BS: Yes I believe marriages can survive affairs. What's wrong with that?<p>WS: Because everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to do with your information and the fact is I'm still lost. <p>BS: You must believe in pursuing happiness at the expense of losing your family.<p>WS: I do, but what's wrong with that?<p>BS: Well, you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were before you asked for my help, but now it is somehow my fault.

Hey WAT,<p>This is hilarious on many levels!!! I'm even getting a chuckle out of some of the responses. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My W has already sent it off to her sister and software engineer BF. Hope that's alright.<p>Jeffers

Dave<p>very funny but you do know that engineers are the WS also. My STBX used all that engineer logic to show me how EVERYTHING was my fault and he is totally not to blame.<p>When my OS was in pre school his teacher asked if his dad was engineer, she said you can tell.

faith - well done. You filled in the gaps for me.<p>sing - of course you are correct. Any vocation or avocation can likely find parallels on either side of the fence. I'd like to debate your H about his logic, then again, I shouldn't be so naive to believe I can change his mind - it's still in orbit.<p>WAT

Love it Dave!<p>I too, have read different iterations of the same engineer -vs- manager/marketing analogy.<p>Always felt if someone asked an "open" question, such as the balloonist, he should expect an equally open answer.<p>For the Man on the ground to answer by telling the balloonist what city he was in, would require an assumption on the Man on the ground's behalf. Asking a more specific question (i.e., "Do you know what city I'm in?") would have yielded the answer the Balloonist was seeking.<p>Moral: Engineer's try not to assume. <p>OR<p>Moral: Ask a more precise question.<p>Thanks for the giggle ...<p>ummm, I can almost feel the opposing posts being typed ... yikes!<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

LOL,<p>SNL, I love you man. That post was a classic. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>who

SNL,<p>I hope you didn't take that as a cheap shot. In fact I started laughing at myself and how I am an "engineer". Just wanted to make sure you knew that. I hope you didn't take it that way. If you did then feel free to pay me back. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
who

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>faith - well done. You filled in the gaps for me.<p>sing - of course you are correct. Any vocation or avocation can likely find parallels on either side of the fence. I'd like to debate your H about his logic, then again, I shouldn't be so naive to believe I can change his mind - it's still in orbit.<p>WAT</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Dave,<p>You know enough about my STBX to know nothing will ever change his mind. At this point I don't care. I hope to turn in soon to everyone's worse nightmare of an XW. sorry in a very evil mood today.

not to worry wifty, actually I am am just a few credits shy of a mechanical engineering degree (from U of Mich), work in a technical feild (as a troubleshooter/problem solver) for 30 years, and have 1 engineering daughter, and 2 undergraduate engineers (must be genetic or something). I was just throwing my hat in the ring with what came to mind first, and enjoying the thread. It is akin to a morality play in that it is a temperament play, no real right answer exactly, just how we all "react" (as opposed to proact)...but myself I am solution oriented, and in this mythical world I would have ascertained immediately the objective (to get the lost person where they are going) and would have worked in that direction...I wouldn't care why he was lost, or his skills at navigation, I would just have got him there, but then I have done nothing but solve problems, all sorts of problems across many disciplines all my life....actually I live to solve problems....can't ya tell [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

A really good friend referred me to this post (thanks, Faith, it did make me laugh [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>That joke is hilarious, but in a "Dilbert" sort of way. Because it is actually realistic, although ironic.

SNL - Lighten up. It's a joke. <p>A funny one at that.<p>Dan<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Family Man ]</p>

Thanks Faith for deciphering that one for me, I'm not in either of those worlds, I deal with special needs kids all day!!! I get it now!!LoL!<p>Dawn

Child of an engineer
Need I say more......?<p>Seriously, Dave, you need to go over to Emotional Needs and talk to GSN. He's having it very rough these days and could probably use your help. I think he is in the DC area also.<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: cleopatra ]</p>

Dave.... LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Me - daughter of an engineer
& currently a manager<p>Conflict? Offended?? nope. Loved your story. <p>I can relate to this 100%, because while I retain the manager title, I tend to think like an engineer. Always wanting to figure stuff out. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] That gets me in trouble with those manager's who fit your description. <p>In the long run, I would much rather be the one with the level head and a sense of humor than the one in the balloon who doesn't know where he is going. Can we say in the FOG?!?!?!? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I shared it with my girlfriend who is preparing for a meeting with a bunch of VP & Directors to show them what they need to know and why. Crazy huh? A worker bee having to show all the big shots how to do their job!! Go figure. Guess the fog even resides at work. Gotta go home! <p>Thanks for the laugh today. I really needed it. <p>L.