I came across this website 2 months ago when I did a search on marriage, affairs and divorce. I have been pretty much addicted to it since, read a lot of the posts from all over the boards, some of which really touched my heart. I must tell you that I am neither a WS, BS or OP. I am in a serious relationship with a man and we are considering marriage. However this man is divorced and used to be a WS. <p>I met him about 2 years back just before his divorce became final. I wasn&#8217;t really bothered about his marriage then, I was too busy falling in love. I never question why it fell apart, his motives for wanting a divorce or having an affair. Basically what he told me runs along the same line of reasoning as what most WS here write about. Never being married myself I believed him. <p>However now that things are getting serious and I have gone pass the initial high of the relationship, I do wonder. Some of you use the term &#8216;marriage material&#8217; &#8211; what does it mean really? How do I know if he is? One thing that concerns me is that he does not belief in god and religion. I do not know what the basis of his principles are. I am not saying that people with religious background in free from sin, most of them are aware that what they do or did is wrong. <p>A few days ago I brought this conversation up, I asked him what does being married means to him? From his response I gather not a lot, he said its just a piece of paper. But then he goes on saying that he believed in commitment. So I asked why did u have an affair? Did you think it was wrong? He said it&#8217;s different, you didn&#8217;t know what it was like&#8230;because I didn&#8217;t love her, the relationship was dead, the marriage was dead. Hmmm&#8230; does it mean when you think you no longer love me, it is ok for you to sleep with someone else then? He kept quite and asks me if he turns into this fat beer drinking slobby person, who is always angry, had no respect for me or my family, emotionally hurt me , reject me, don&#8217;t love me, makes me feel really bad for a long time, would I still want to be married to him? I said no but I probably won&#8217;t have an affair on him. <p>It goes on like that until we get tired. He tells me because he knows how much divorce hurts and the hell he has been going through for the past 5/6 years, he would try his hardest not to do it again. Not to put himself in a situation where he would have an affair or where we would fall out of love. But there are no guarantees. You can&#8217;t promise that you will be in love with the same person forever, that you can only hope. I understand you can male someone love you, but his statement made me feel really sad. Feels like an escape clause. He thinks I feel that way because I am 25 and never been married or in a relationship long enough to know that this does and can happen to anyone.

Now I sit here thinking if I should go on with this relationship. Would I want to get married to this person? Perhaps love is not everything, it doesn&#8217;t conquer all. Everything with him felt so right until now. Am I being too naïve? I always thought marriage is something personal, something sacred, something that lasts forever but now I am not sure. What is the possibility of him being a WS again? How would I know? <p>I know this site is mainly for married couples, but I hope you can spare me some advice. Your experiences put together is invaluable to me. Thanks.<p>Kat

Love isn't everything and it doesn't conquer all. <p>I took my H back, because I married him and had children with him.<p>But marry a former WS? No way. Not with what I know now.

Katrina,<p>I think you already have your answer. I don't believe that once a WS always a WS, BUT if they haven't learned anything about the why's and how's of their relationship and they don't feel marriage is a real commitment, then you already know what I am going to say to you.<p>You are young and there are many men out there for you to meet. Why don't you find one were there is a CHANCE he might view marriage seriously. I realize that there are not guarentees, and I realize that most people really don't know what they are getting into until they are married. But in this case you DO KNOW what you are getting into.<p>His commitment to marriage and being faithful doesn't appear to be too strong. I will tell you that I have met and talked to alot of WS's on this board that if you were talking about them I would say "go for it". They have learned, they have felt, and they have changed their perspectives on marriage. Your BF doesn't appear to.<p>As for the religion or lack of it. It isn't a show stopper, but if you don't know what he believes in, what is the basis of his moral compass AND this would be a second marriage, then I say watch out. Religion tends to become much more important once children show up.<p>So if you are at all religious and you think that your children should be raised with religious beliefs, then don't marry this man.<p>I suspect I haven't said a single thing that you didn't already knew. I also suspect that you have already made your decision and are just looking for confirmation. I hope I helped.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

A short simple answer.......NO.
But relationships are not quite so simple. Listen to your heart. cl

It is hard to predict future, but you can do a lot in the present, there are many self-help books dealing with marriage material, start reading.....also (and this is tricky), listen to your gut (not the fluttery butterflies, but the voice of reason), if you feel the slightest discomfort about marriage...DON'T until you figure out what it is. As for ws history, well two ways, an affair is a life altering experience, but it can alter one for the worse (meaning they will never be trustworthy), or for the better, meaning one has learned a hard lesson and will never go there again (and now has the skills and knowledge to make that stick). Since statistically even bs are likely to become ws, it would seem ones lack of history as a ws is not particularly significant.....but why one has been a ws is very important...I applaud your bringing it up, he needs to answer all your questions....you need to assess his truthfullness (radical honesty), and then what his answers mean. I don't like his observations that you haven't been there, can't understand....those are disrespectful judgements of you, and big red flags (at least from a relationship skills standpoint). You can apply MB to a relationship too, you should be reading the books doing the surveys, assessing EN and willingness/ability to meet them, this will tell you alot about yourself, him, and the relationship...you are only 25, no hurry, got lots of time, do it right...and IMO stay away from sex until you are sure he is the "one"....that alone will tell you alot. Good luck, and kudos on your inquiry here, IMO that is pretty impressive for a 25 yo who is "in-love".<p>btw, you might want to talk to his ex-wife too. Frankly if he balks at that I would consider that a real issue...the basis of an in-love relationship and marriage is that each ones life is an open book in all things, including the past....that is the principle of radical honesty, and it is that principle that is the basis of a successful marriage.<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

Extremely doubtful! As my SIL would say, "The next man that I marry has to have an [censored] lined with gold." What more can I say.....LOL [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

katrina...<p>If WS committed to doing the work to figuring out his 'why' and work through his affair issues... maybe...<p>WS would have to read Surviving an Affair, His Needs/ Her Needs, LoveBusters, etc. and complete questionaires and surveys... I would also want in-depth premarital counseling utilizing these tools...<p>It has been noted that if affairees don't work through their affair issues they may repeat their behavior... that is one reason why the divorce rate is so high in second and third and .... marriages.<p>just my 2 cents.<p>Cali

Katrina, <p>I too am impressed that you would look here for collective wisdom. I like that you are willing to do your homework and spend the needed research for the most important decision in your life. You need to listen to your instincts, the whisper of your heart, the closer you listen the crisper the direction. I believe he has judged you critically with his terse responses. He should open his heart to you and promise not to have another A not just try. If you love someone and your needs are provide for then there should be no A. Take time to do the EN questionaires and see where the 2 of you come out. I would step back after even taking the Q yourself and seing how he is doing. One thing for sure if he can't do it now during the chase he is far less likely to meet your needs once you are married. It becomes harder for you to express them as well without nagging. Lastly check out Family.org, theres an excellent article there about finding out whether your mate is right for you. <p>Most imp. thing to me would be to ID each of your needs up front and determine the willingness you 2 have to meet them. If either of you have demands that are too great then try preM C and if not stay away from him. I don't know him but based upon your response he doesn't seem truly repentant and I wouldn't marry him and I'm a guy.

In a word, "NO". I would never knowingly marry a former WS.<p>From what you have offered regarding your BF's character, it sounds as tho he took no (zero) responsibility for his 100% of the 50% of his marriage's demise. He owned that 50%.<p>If he can't own up to contributing to the state of the marriage and it's demise, that would be a RED flag to me. <p>His phrases such as "no guarantees", "marriage is just a piece of paper" and especially "having an affair isn't wrong, just different". Not good signs, IMVHO. <p>I'm sorry if this sounds brutal, Katrina.<p>Best,
Jo<p>[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by katrina74:
<strong>He kept quite and asks me if he turns into this fat beer drinking slobby person, who is always angry, had no respect for me or my family, emotionally hurt me , reject me, don&#8217;t love me, makes me feel really bad for a long time, would I still want to be married to him? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Kat,<p>There is your answer right there. Does this sound like someone with remorse or insight? Or does it sound like someone blaming someone else for THEIR actions?<p>I thought I did everything right--I married a man who was a BS in his previous M, so he had LIVED the agony of adultery. I also married my H because of his devotion and commitment to God and that we were raised in the same religion. I tried to make a wiser choice for my second M than I had as a teenager with my first M. Above all, having been a BS in my first M, I wanted to avoid going through that hell again at all costs.<p>And now here I am. Your BF is right about one thing--there are no guarantees. HOWEVER, if I can end up in this torture chamber AGAIN, having done all I can to avoid it, it is only logical to avoid the OBVIOUS warning signs that your BF is displaying. He has sounded the warning bells for you. Heed them. RUN, do not walk, to the nearest exit ASAP.

No.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by katrina74:
[qb]<p>[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: fairydust ]</p>

Would I marry a former Ws?<p>NO WAY IN HELL!!!!!<p> I have to say that it sounds like your boyfriend doesn't take marriage all that seriously. Sort of "I would try to make it work out, but if it doesn't, it happens...." Not anywhere near good enough. He's still making excuses and not accepting responsibility for his part in having an affair and that isn't a good sign. He'd be able to make excuses and justify his behavior the next time too.

I might marry a "convincingly reconstructed" WS, which this guy is not. Marriage is "just a piece of paper" to him, and he's pretty much told you that he'll stray after a few years to find more excitement. In spite of his experience, and his condescending comments to you, he does not understand what marriage is. You know more than he does.<p>This guy, no. He can only be a boyfriend. You're right to question it.<p>Good luck,<p>Tom

Katrina---<p>I think your question is would we marry your boyfriend?<p>I say that because I think that each situation needs to be dealt with in its own way.<p>I mean it&#8217;s almost like asking would you marry ______ (fill in the blank, a doctor, Catholic, reformed alcoholic&#8230;.etc)<p>Plus, I think you will get a lopsided view of things from this board.<p>So let me provide a contrary view. First of all most of the BSs here are already married to a WS and are trying to GET THEM BACK. So, in fact, many would marry (or I suppose you could say re-marry) their own WS.<p>But secondly, and more importantly, I think we have to consider that this whole process affects WSs, too. I think in many cases it puts them in a state of mind where it has been so difficult and so heart wrenching that they would never put themselves or others thru this same thing again. Your BF has acknowledged that kind of. <p>Obviously that is not true in every case but it is true in many. And so I really believe that each situation needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Ultimately at some point we all need to take some leap of faith. It is good to do it with our eyes open and it&#8217;s good you and your BF are discussing this now.<p>In your case, I guess if you already have feelings of concern and mistrust that aren&#8217;t being acknowledged or addressed by your BF, well it at least should cause you to consider carefully what you are doing. But I don&#8217;t think you can make a blanket statement about all WSs for all cases.<p>Just my $0.02<p>E

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Elad:
<strong>Katrina---<p>So let me provide a contrary view. First of all most of the BSs here are already married to a WS and are trying to GET THEM BACK. So, in fact, many would marry (or I suppose you could say re-marry) their own WS.<p>E</strong><hr></blockquote><p> Hmmm. That's sort of different. Big difference between a potential marraige partner and someone you have already been married to, built a life with etc. I did take my WS back with open arms, but if I were single and faced with a former WS as a potential new partner. No way. I wouldnt' have married my H if he'd ever cheated on anyone before either (we discussed this). Obviously from what happened with us that are no guarantees, but it's a good starting point. When I was 25 the world was full of single men to pick from. At that I wouldn't even date guys who had been married before at all. One that had cheated on his previous wife and wasn't all that sorry about it would have been looking at my suddenly empty chair and trying to figure out how I made myself vanish into a puff of smoke lol. The world is your oyster when you are in your 20s. No need to settle down with someone with questionable ideas about lifetime commitment. Easier to cut your losses at 25 then to be the BS at 40 with 3 kids to take care of. JMO since that was always my own pre marraige philosophy.

I am a BS and am working hard at restoring a stong marriage. I love my husband dearly. <p>You are young. You have so many choices. Knowing what I know through this experience, I would never marry a former WS. That truth said, had I known my husband would cheat or had cheated I would not have continued a relationship with him. The pain and lack of trust is far to great for winning attrbutes to compensate for this lack.<p>Run, run, run some more. Get out while there are few complications.<p>Best wishes,<p>Shaz

Would you marry an exWS?<p>I'm beginning to think I did.

Katrina, I tell you this as I would tell my sister, or a daughter: Don't do this.<p>When I was dating my husband, there was one night when he went out with friends, drank way too much and wound up in bed with a strange woman. He called me immediately the next day, telling me exactly what happened and begging me to forgive him. I was young and thought that this was just a terrible, one-time mistake. After all, he was completely honest with me immediately afterwards. Plus, he was in a very difficult situation--had recently lost his first wife (very young) to cancer. He made me feel like I was his ticket back to a happy life, and I wanted to trust him. We got engaged within the month.<p>He hasn't turned out to be a sex addict (that I know of), and we are still in love. But since I learned of his affair(s), I have regretted over and over that I didn't drop him all those years ago. I saw which way the wind was blowing, and I ignored it. Foolish. Now I have two children who need married parents and their father, but some days I feel my life has been completely ruined.<p>Katrina, love yourself, and drop this guy. Try for one minute to imagine yourself 10 years from now, 35 years old with a couple of small children and a cheating husband. Don't set yourself up for this heartbreak.<p>Rose Red

I'm with fairydust. I would NEVER have married my H if he had a history of adultery. The ONLY reason I'm giving him a second chance is because I have young children from this union. If the decision only affected me, I would be single, long gone to another state and enjoying my grandchildren right now because I would have filed at the first SMELL of adultery--wouldn't have hesitated for even one second. And there would never have been any discussion nor would I have ever spoken another word to him in my life.<p>Once you have a child with someone, you are stuck with that person for the rest of your life, so you have to weigh that into the equation. I have learned to my sorrow that a difficult M may be slightly more bearable than what a vindictive ex can do to you. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>