I just got off the phone with a marital counselor. This was the pre-interview before I decide whether to beign counseling with her. Those of you who know my story know that I am Plan A'ing my head off and my WW is still deeply "in love" with OM but she is also coming closer to me.<p>Well, based on a 10 minute explanation of my situation, this counselor told me I need to accept the fact that, in her opinion, my wife will not be coming back to me. That she right now is just trying to get over her guilt for what she has done, but that once she does, she will probably leave me.<p>WOW! Talk about deflation! I want to say "Who is this person, to say such a thing?" But she says this is based on her 20 yrs of experience with human behavior, that my WW has already moved on in every way except bodily, and that her professional judgement is that its easier to move the body than to bring back the heart and mind.<p>Well, I decided post-haste that this is not the counselor for me. Especially when she said that she would work with me to "survive this uncertain period, and deal with the changes ahead".<p>Someone, anyone, give me some feedback.

Run, run, run! Who the h*ll is this woman anyway? For someone to make an assumption like that, based on a short discussion, is ASTOUNDING. Probably a WS herself... Hey, she can pre-judge, so can I!!!<p>Keep looking for MC without attitude problems. They are out there!<p>Snow

Boppo57 --<p>You want some feedback?--here it is: This counselor is INSANE! You did the smart thing and walked (ran) the other way! Snow and I agree on this, and you do too! <p>As long as The Fog has rolled in, no one--repeat, no one--can predict the outcome. Your WW is still deeply immersed in The Fog and can't (isn't able to) see or feel anything clearly or sanely. <p>You mentioned a big positive: "she's also coming closer to me." None of us can know what your future holds but hope springs eternal and propels us forward and gives us purpose and a reason to go on. Hope is necessary and vital to our well-being. You made the right decision to bury that counselor and you've continued to hope and work your Plan "A" so you're doing what you can do to help things along. Time and Patience, my friend. This is hard but you can do it!<p>Ammon

A counselor who has no way to help keep someone's marriage together has to take refuge in preparing the couple for divorce. That way they won't look like a fool for being unable to help build the marriage. She's taking the easy way out, but you don't have to.<p>Rose Red

Weiner-Davis covers this in her books, Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy...<p>mainstream counselors do not usually work to keep couples together and could do more harm than good... <p>try to find a counselor that is solutions-based or has knowledge of MB...<p>Cali

Or try the phone counseling at MB. We only did 2 sessions, but I thought it was good.

bop,<p>I agree with the others. A counselor who makes that diagnosis of your marriage, after a 10 minute discussion, without ever talking to your W, isn't worth wasting your time. It would be like you telling a doctor your W has a bad cough, and him diagnosing it as inoperable lung cancer.
Call Steve Harley!<p>sad dad

I would run like everyone else stated. This counselor should of given a game plan, or attention to the matter to the extent that you know I can't guarantee anything, but we will work with you. To come right out and say she is gone, go elsewhere.<p>For the record, make sure your counselor is one that has a game plan. We were to a counselor that we walked in and he said, what do you want to talk about today. Talking to others, there is a plan for next week, homework, and a goal to reach. Make sure there is a goal, a short one to reach, and then you can make another goal. Some counselors don't have a good bedside manner, they are there for the money.

Yes, it's important not to get sucked into a bad counseling situation, because it can be hard to fix. Our MC is not BAD per se, but not GREAT either. She knows that WW and I need to try, try, try - that M is worth saving. But she doesn't seem to be giving solutions - just "listening" and trying to faciliate some discussion.<p>The thing is, now WW trusts her and her alone. When I mentioned SH and MB, she bristled. So be careful, and it sounds like you have been - good!

well she could be right, many experts can diagnose something accurately pretty quickly, that is why they are experts I suppose....however, in the arena of human behaviour, 10 minutes, and input from only one party it seems to me the diagnosis was a wee bit premature, and may be more indicative of a mindset that is not open to what is needed for possible reconcilliation, than it is a good diagnosis...I'd say shop around some more. MB counselling is good, and the best for applying the principles, but they are one-sided, and do not (and make it clear they do not) counsel re do you really fit, do you really want to reconcille...they just start at the point you are committed to trying and are not concerned about why. That is a major turnoff for many ws, who feel manipulated and brainwashed, so sometimes the MB stuff will backfire too, it is not balanced... best is IC and marital counselling that keeps it all balanced and leaves open (as a legitimate choice) divorcing, and helps the ws feel like they are important too, not just a bs thing.

Tell any counselor you are considering, "I want you to help me save this marriage. If you do not believe it is possible or worth the trouble then goodbye! You are the weakest link!" [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>MB counselling is good, and the best for applying the principles, but they are one-sided, and do not (and make it clear they do not) counsel re do you really fit, do you really want to reconcille...they just start at the point you are committed to trying and are not concerned about why.
??? So what? Are you concerned about what makes a roller coaster fun or just that when you get off you immediately say, "Let's do that again!"<p>best is IC and marital counselling that keeps it all balanced and leaves open (as a legitimate choice) divorcing, and helps the ws feel like they are important too, not just a bs thing.
If you are going to try & save a marriage then going in with the attitude that divorce is an option, then you'll probably get there."<p>Divorce is a possibility, but you don't have to leave it open as an option (if that makes sense?)<p>[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</p>

call mb counseling... the number is on the counseling section, ask for a number and reccomendations of mb counselors in your area, who use mb concepts... there are tons of counselors out there ready to help you get a divorce, they do it all the time... look at the divrce statistics... this is not what you want, and not the counslor who should ever go to... tell her you want to use mb techniques and ahve someone help you with this.. tell her goodbye.<p>Hugs to you, honey [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

I got a counslor from caling MB and they referred to a local counselor who is using techniqes, teaching my h them and helping us with a real plan on this... like the hareleys and my insurance covers it...! WOW!<p>you can find a better counselor... I am on the 4th counselor in this mess... the first few ony added to the mess. thanks... honey

Boppo:<p>Here are some excellent questions to ask a potential counselor (taken from: http://www.smartmarriages.com/hazardous.html )<p>&#8226; "Can you describe your background and training in marital therapy?" If the therapist is self-taught or workshop-trained, and can't point to a significant education in this work, then consider going elsewhere. <p>&#8226; "What is your attitude toward salvaging a trouble marriage versus helping couples break up?" If the therapist says he or she is "neutral," or "I don't try to save marriage, I try to help people" look elsewhere. (I'd also run if the therapist says he or she does not believe in divorce.) <p>&#8226; "What is your approach when one partner is seriously considering ending the marriage and the other wants to save it?" If the therapist responds by focusing only on helping each person clarify their personal feelings and decisions, consider looking elsewhere. <p>&#8226; "What percentage of your practice is marital therapy?" Avoid therapists who mostly do individual therapy. <p>&#8226; "Of the couples you treat, what percentage would you say work out enough of their problems to stay married with a reasonable amount of satisfaction with the relationship." "What percentage break up while they are seeing you?" "What percentage do not improve?" "What do you think makes the differences in these results?" If someone says "100%" stay together, I would be concerned, and if they say that staying together is not a measure of success for them, I'd be concerned.<p>Hope this helps! Peace, ~Marie