I am crying again at lunch- I went to an alanon meeting and realized how big my fear is of my h being with another woman and leaving our family, me and the boys... it is so crzy... I have a big fear of being left... and maybe because of it, I drive him away... I keep thinking honesty is the answer ,... I talked in the meeting about how I fear this... and I need to start embracing letting go... I call h and tell him this... he says .. he is so confused talked to ow again yesterday, and now he is wanting to be with her again... oh my g++, why! He put back on his ring the other night, says it was just for the night... because we went out... why does he choose to torture me?<p>I think I must start to decide I am too valuable to be treated this way.<p>I know I am, but this is ridiculous.. he is open to trying to work on marriage, but can't help that he feels like she is the one, now? HOW! After so much time together and 2 kids, and marriage vows! I know you all share my grief... I am sooo mad... I want to fix it... I can't I have to let him go through this, whatever it may be.. if he stupidly decides to leave, that is his stupid problem.. not mine, right?<p>OH please lord, let him love me like he did before... how can he do this? IS it just an illusion that he loved me? WHY ME GOD!<p>I am so sad, and feeling defeated.. .why does he continue to waffle, why did he talk to her, can't he see, he is messing up our lives. the tears want to flow all over the place.<p>THANKS< HONEY<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: honey ]</p>

I am shaking, and can barely concentrate... I just called my h about 7 times in a row trying to get him to talk to me about this... while I freak out saying... you can't talk to her... what about our marriage vows... we can never work this out... with her in the picture, etc. He just hung up, sd I cannot tell him what to do... he is really confused he says... I guess I better get my butt back in plan a... this is real lb behaviro... I am losing it... he sd he called her to say ... ask... sorry, if she was driving by his house - ok. Also, she has concocted some crzy story that I called her from his house, and sd a cvouple of obscene words on her voice recorder... oh boy... help!

Oh, honey,<p> I am so sorry you are going through this terrible pain! I also go to alanon and also am having a hard time detaching from our problems. I keep trying. Hang in there and do something nice for yourself today.

Honey-
Hang in there, you WILL get through this. Remember that God will only give you as much as you can handle, and just when you think you can't take anymore, something will happen to relieve you of your pain.<p>If you need some encouragement, here is what I read in your post-<p> he is so confused… Yes he is, and this is your golden opportunity to show him that YOU ARE THE ONE! Get into Plan A mode big time and really avoid any LB's, big or small. You are now in the drivers seat, you are in control of the entire situation. Use his confusion to your advantage.<p>Also, she has concocted some crzy story… Do you see this, OW is now starting to feel the effects of the A falling apart. She is starting to LB also. Use OW's LB's to your advantage, show H, through Plan A, that you are better than her, that you are so much more than that.<p>Honey, you are in charge now. Do not push H away by being needy and clingy, show him how strong you have become and all the positive changes you have made. Reality is beginning to crack the shield that surrounded the A.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

thanks, it has been a hard night... I just got total lecture... mean and cruel lecture from my mother when I asked her to watch the kids and let them spend the night so I could go to dinner with my H... she sd she does not want to... I just want to dump my kids in daycare ... so that is why she is willing to watch them, I am totally crazy if I go back with that jim... b.... oh my, my mother being so cruel to me, about what I want it driving me over the edge...<p>she says she is my mother and she has to talk some sense into me... I do not want to talk to her... can't she see she is lbing... NO< she is not that healthy... my mom needs major help, she is sooo mean to me... it is awful..<p>I need her help with kids, but will have to let it go, because she is so abusively natured... I told her on the phone to quit verbally abusing me... she says I am a bad parent.. I have to think about everyone involved here.... and make right decisions for all... oh I better not be having sex with him... she says my son told her he found panties under his bed.. my h's---- house....anyway... this is so ridiculouse... she says she shouldn't of paid for my college... I can't make good choices, they shouldn't of helped me buy a car.. more later...

Honey, lhs is right you canot be needy or clingy or you will drive him away. there is an excellent article By Dr. Dobson on Family.org that talks about letting go. The analogy is opening his cage door and set him free, once that happens they are often confused and over time realize that they don't like that feeling. Also read Love must be tough. It sounds like you need to take this stance. Be strong, take courage from all your friends here and perservere! You can do it! You are a good person as evidenced by you being here and caring for your kids. My prayers are with you!

Honey, I am sorry you are going through such pain. My mother has also been telling me not to take my H back. I know how much it hurts to hear those words, but IMHO, they see how much we are hurting and they love us and don't want us to hurt anymore. Be strong, honey, you have a lot of people here who are your friends and are rooting for you. Hang in there!
Hugs to you Honey.
BH

thanks again, I do love my kids, and I feel I need to fight for this marriage... but I must be tough... it will wear off... my h says it is like a switch was clicked over in his head... in my heart of hearts I know he will come home... I know it... but when, and how and when, when when, and OH... I am so tired of this.... stupid ow came over to talk to him again last night - he says he just wants closure... etc etc... <p>TOnight he wants to see me agian,... but not with kids... my mom will not watch them... great... she doesnt want to help me work out my marriage.. nice mom huh... says she will do nothgin to encourage us working things out... there must be something wrong with my mind.. can't I see that thisis unforgivable...some things are just unforgivable she say....s.. my mom thinks she is god. It is horrid to have such a mother...at least crzed ow wants to stay with her h... but she wants my h too, my h is trying to get her to leave.. if he could get her to leave, he would stay with her... oh please....

Honey, take a firm stand for yourself! Save your dignity and self respect. IMO, I would not see your H unless he was committed to talkking about saving your marriage. If he said "but she wants my h too, my h is trying to get her to leave.. if he could get her to leave, he would stay with her" then he is trying get some of his needs from you and others from you. Don't allow him to play you, I know you love him and want to make M work, put in this case you really need a tough love approach!

he broke it off with her last wekk... supposedly... but called this week and she came over to talk,... ugggghhhh, oh my god... what a mess.. last night he was going to go to dinner with me... I could not get a sitter... I always have to have sitter... this is so unfair... she can jst lolly on over , no kids... <p>OH so unfair... <p>and he moved to her neighborhood... i just don't think she is leaving her h, but she might break... and he keeps spending time with me, especially when she is with her h... i think i need to paln a more... I have been trying to talk sense into him, which I think is an lb...<p>HONEY

is her H aware of the affair? Don't worry about fairness. You have 2 beautiful boys and your H can still come to the house to talk, Yes its nice to get away from the kids but tell him that you are unwilling to talk unless he is willing to talk about saving the marriage. Dont allow him to have his cake and eat it too. If she is breaking it off and staying with her H and you be tough, your H will be without any woman and that is not where he wants to be as it sounds. Please just take some time to think about it and perhaps postpone any discussions until next week when you are in a better frame of mind.

angling, maybe that is what will ahppen.. I find it hard to find down dates to dinner with h... but always have to find a babysitter, and it is just not possible... he wants time alone.. no kids... I think I need a live in nanny... and may get one... anyway... we have had lots of time with NO TIME together, and we have let kids take over our lives... thanks for advice, I am going to get love must be tough... I will be a love expert by the time this is over, I hope! thanks- i am tired of frustrations.... <p>honey

Its a great and I have read 11 in the last 3 months and I dont like to read. lets be love experts together. What do you boys like to do? I have a 7 and a 11. They are so different! The 7 does little else except Nintendo, he is taking the separation very hard. I received a call from the principal last week for him strangle holding another kid and he is also relegated to the front seat of the bus. My 11 year old is a model kid although sep. has made him more withdrawn. He loves skiing, soccer (state champ last yr) and fishing and hunting. i couldn't ask for 2 better boys. My dream was always to be the father that I never had since my parents d when I was 3. I feel like I failed them if we D but I can still be a super dad. get this, my w, told my aunt that I'm an awesome dad but suck as a husband, I don't get how they can be so mutually exclusive since the skills needed are so similar. Hope you are doing better! Your in my thoughts!

Honey ~ you can't MAKE your H do anything. You also can't fix this. You can only fix you.<p>Step 1 is about powerlessness...remember?<p>You are focused on your H, the OW, your mom...anyone but yourself.<p>I don't want to tell you I told you so, but I know that I told you several times that your H had no intention of breaking it off with the OW. He's simply appeasing you to keep you in the sick comfortable dance that satisfies his disease. He knows that if he simply SAYS that he left the OW, that you'll hang on, you won't file for divorce, you'll keep having sex with him, you'll do all those things that allow him to remain comfortable with his unacceptable behavior.<p>You are NOT dealing with recovery here at all. You aren't even CLOSE.<p>You don't draw boundaries, you refuse to accept reality, and you prefer to come online and complain that its "unfair". <p>YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM. So stop whining already. You are simply experiencing the consequences of your OWN choices.<p>The tone of your posts are always frantic. I can see how out of control your life is. What do you think your behavior is doing to your children?<p>I can understand why your mom is on your case. Is it her business? No, its not. But I can completely understand her frustration as she watches YOU make choices and take actions that cause your own difficulties.

Honey,<p>I am gonna throw in a loud I second everything bramblerose posted...<p>and it's not to be harsh..it's to hopefully wake you up...<p>Slow down...re-focus...
please take care of yourself...please.
ARK

Honey, Listen to Bramble...slow down. Don't accept his throwaways. If you aren't the one and only, step back. Please. Do if for yourself AND your children. <p>Your posts to me were so strong earlier in the week. Don't lose that incredible strength that helped me get through. LOOK FORWARD only...before you know, he'll be running behind you without you having to check.<p>My prayers are with you. Keep posting.

I did go to dinner, and it started out nice, as long as I ignored reality... then I got sad ... and silently the tears fell... my lovely sweet h, that I "claim" to love... got ANGRY because I would dare cry and ruin his $58 dollar dinner, he was treating me too, mind you, $15 of that is what I ordered at most... the rest his splurging on him... and yes, I still need more money for me and kids... why splurge on appetizers, babystiters, and etc.. .when I am just a good time, who is not allowed to feel... <p>I guess and know crying is not in plan a... I was not at all mean... I looked at him and started to cry... I am so heartbroken that he is not who I once though t he was... RIGHt guys, he chased me down and begged me to marry him... he asked me to marry him at least 500 times before I sd yes... I wa s unsure... now I am sooo sure... he is not at all concerned... whty not chase doewn the ow, he likes a challenge... guess I better be one.. Huh... sleepy me now.. I am tired.. had ok dinner, sad that my h does not care when I am sad...<p>Any thoughts... I know crying (althought silently) during dinenr, must be a major lb... I just could not helpl it... I am sooo sad... about this.<p>He will just have to come to me, won't he? I must be stronger, and be willing to lose, to win... right???????<p>thanks again for all the great input, you gyus are my lifeline.<p>HONEY [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Honey--I'll give you Guido's perspective on all of this, for what it's worth. First, let me give a ditto to what BrambleRose said. It's brutally honest.<p>We all have moments where we cry, sob, wail and generally toss thoughts to God why, oh why. At some point you MUST BE THE ONE TO SET THE STAGE. <p>It's funny, WW is coming over Sunday and we are supposed to be cooking dinner together, going over questionaires, etc, and she is supposed to move back in in two weeks. But you know what--if she asks for more time, or anything like that, she's getting the Plan B letter, which is already typed up, sealed and ready. I can't take getting dumped on any more and neither should you.<p>Go to the gym--hit a punching bag, play racquetball or something where you can vent some frustrations. You have a high level of compassion but need to love yourself first. You sound like a great, wonderful person.<p>Your H is being an as*hole, "Fog-impaired", individual. Stop chasing him. Let him chase you. You are the hottie, right?? C'mon, now, you have the uppper hand.<p>Don't cave in--be strong. Stop being frantic. I know how HARD IT IS. Please. IF you want to email, please do--myself or Orchid, Redhat or anyone will give you the strength. You are a fighter, I can tell, but you've got to be Ali, not Tommy Morrison.<p>"Winners never quit and quitters never win"<p>God bless!!!<p>Guido

Honey, <p>I would like to "third" everything Bramblerose wrote. Listen and learn, darlin! I know this sucks, I know you're hurting, but believe me - you are NOT in Plan A if you are freaking out and ringing him 7 times in a row. <p>Things I've learned here are -<p>*I can't force my H to do or feel anything. It's entirely up to him.
*The more "needy" I appear, the more he backs away.
*The more I try to force relationship/OW talk, the more he shuts down.
*The more independent, happy and fun I am, the more he likes it.
*Plan A is about YOU, Honey. It's about making improvements on yourself without EXPECTING your WH to notice. It's a bonus if he does, but don't expect a damn thing from him. No expectations = fewer disappointments.
*Did I mention "NO EXPECTATIONS"?<p>Now, you have complimented me on my Plan A and said I'm doing a great job. Well, believe me sweetie, it's not brain surgery and you can do it, too! Calling him 7 times in a row when you're in a panic will acheive nothing. He even hung up on you - doesn't that tell you that the way you're doing it doesn't work?<p>Be strong, girl! You have to! For you and for your kids. It will, first and foremost, help you feel better. And the added bonus is that your WH will notice. <p>In fact, here's a little something that Bramblerose once wrote to me, which I printed out and carry around in my wallet. When I'm having a "needy moment" and feel like ringing my H and screaming down the phone in a flood of LB's, I pull this out and read it over and over until that feeling passes. <p>"I think I have posted you before about this...you are doing a great Plan A except that you need to stop discussing your marriage or his affair. I think several of us have told you that, and now your H is telling you that. Relationship talks at this stage are pointless and in addition are a drain on the Love Bank. Let him go, love him when he lets you, and simply get on with living. If he is going to come back, it will only be after he's comfortable with experiencing the new you. Think about when you were dating. Did any of us gals ever hang on to ANY guy if we started pressing them about commitments and relationships and wanted long relationship talks? No. We learned how to play with them, be their friend and just enjoy them, living in the moment. Date your H. Be his pal and let the rest be. If he wants to come home, he'll let you know, in his time and in his own way. All these questions are simply a fearful effort to get control of the situation. And the fact of the matter is that you can't control it. So just enjoy what you have and let the rest go."<p>Wow. Powerful stuff. And SO true!!!!<p>Print it out, Honey. Learn it, know it and live it. We're all here for you!<p>Love,
VE

thnks again, evrytime he tells me he has talked to HER... it has sent me in a tailspin... and this is where I was earlier today. well yesterday, thank goodness now... I do not want to hear about her...anymore...and at dinenr last night... I do not even know what the talk was... I thuink I sd something like you don't care about me- and it was in relation to the kids. and something he sd... that would be impossible for me, but in his fog... he doesn't really have 2 kids you see...??? BUt I always will, and his answer when I say... do you see how much it is to be a single mom- uis OK, I will take the kids... nonon o nonon no no no no... anyway...<p>I know I was tired and frustrated, and my h basically when he got back to his house...sd I could not come in, what a man, huh, and I was upset, so I had to get in my car and go, he was sooo mean to me, it was pathetuc, and yes, at this point, I acannot accept anymore contact with the ow... I have had it, we are in counseling and the counselor sd it had to end, or no work on marriage... and my h sd he would, and now waffle again, we go to counseling on tuesday... so oh well, guess I will attempt to be cheerful now...<p>my tears were silent and just rlling down my face, my horrible mean h, got angry and practically threw a fit at me for being sad and crying, I wasn't even talking, but somehow last night, when I looked at him... it just btroke my heart, and I knew my marriage has been such a lie... he has cheated quit a few times, 7, and it is starting to heit me, he claims none of them meant anything until the latest...
O H boy, I guess I should not bother seeing him , unless I feel more happy, and I just don't with him right now... does that mean I am a plan a flunkie, I do not think it is time for plan b, but guess i need to only spend times withhim when I feel ok in the ignore reality mode... right? sorry that is what it seems to me... I know...