finding it very , very hard to plan a... does plan a include protecting yourself.., I guess that it does.... do not really know... guess I need to reread it... my h has had contact just talking supposedly and also phone converastaion and now I have gone nutty... not even too bad...but he is punhishing me over it... ok, what a mean guy... honey

anymore plan a advice? thanks, honey

Ok, OK, I went back and reread all of this, and I feel a little better... I see more where I am messing up... but it is still really really hard for me... I mean really hard... and I am trying... I guess no more relationship talk or ow talk, what about therapy sessions, do we only do it there? What if there is contact, I just don't get to know, what about the policy of honesty... I feel better knowing, but then it send s me into total tailspin when there is contact, I get strong and then he knocks me down... it is awful...<p>So, anyway... i am just disguisted... sp? <p>I am going to take care of me for the next day and see what it feels like, I need to be home tonight and do not even want to go out with him... let him play darts till the cows come home, it that is what he really wants. RIGHT?<p>Hugs, HONEY

Help guys, can I step back, and plan a? I guess that is more my answer, as I have not proved my new me yet... there has been alot of anger... and reaction from me over all this stuff, and I did a lot of reacting in my marriage, and was holding resentments when this hjappened, and now I am starting to feel resentful and angry again... anyway... he is just sick of reltaitonship talk... which I know is major lb... and I am just sick of him pushing me awayu.... the doing what he wants brings him closer, but it is not the kind of life I wnt, or my kids need.<p>thanks, HONEY

more confusion... I read the bit on family.org.. and thought yea, need to let him go.. but gave him the bit about if he sees or has contact at all, no dinner, no talks, no sf... no nothing, it will be no contact with me... he starting getting really mean and telling me well I guess she and I will just get married... well she is not leavng her h! But he told me some bit about his and her feelings for each other, and because of those feelings, things will have to work out... they will just have kids and start their own family! Well, my sil, his 1/2 sister who is the d of a dad, their dadd who committed adultery and abandone dthe family and married the hooser... well, she told me- tell him all or nothing, there will be no every other weekend dad... be here 100% or go start your NEW life, and we will do fine without you! I tyold him that , and his reaction... oH you can't do that... I will always be dad... I sd, well you nd to decide 100 percent or none, becuase I will remarry and kis will have new dad who love us all! <p>Anyway, he did not like that, says he can take kids to live with him and ow... oh boy!<p>how crzy.. I guess I am lbing and losing it... I am sick of his martian behavior... also staring tot think about calling ow's spouse, or calling her parents... or having friend do it... because she wants her h, but does not want to leave... so maybe if she gets found out... her h travels all week long and is only home on weekends... so ya know it is a problem... during the week she wants my H- her h is oblivious... I called him one time, and he told me, I should not be calling there and that it was a thing of the past and it is over. OH ya!<p>
Hugs, HONEY

honey - I have to respectfully disagree with angling for the advice to NOT talk to him unless it's about working on the marraige.<p>This is Plan B, not where you're at yet.<p>If he wants to spend time with you, DO IT!! I suggest you talk about everything OTHER THAN "IT".<p>Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.<p>Demonstrate your improvements. Be the woman he fell in love with originally.

I undersatnd, and do not think my way or the highway is working here... I just can hardly stand this talking to her stuff... ow... <p>this is very very difficult, I wish I had not told him no more sf, and no more dinner, last night, but guess I can say I was upset, and stand off on the sf... <p>thanks, honey [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

honey - have you seen a doc about anti-depressants?<p>You cannot Plan A unless you get control of your emotions. Of course it's hard. Try to believe that this is not about OW. His relationship with OW is merely a symptom of the problem. There is nothing you can do to separate them. The only thing you can do is work on being the best honey you can be.<p>Will you see a doc, please?<p>WAT

Hi, I am on antidepressent effexor and do fine when no contact, I freak at conta ct... sorry I just do... NEED to find a way to deal with it, have been doing lots of thinking... probably too much, but thinking, HEY this is not OK with me... thisis wrong behavior... alot of all of this is the alcohol... and that makes it crzy crzy crzy... and I am about to go into super duper mode working all the time and that makes me mad... but hey ok, whatever... I can take care of me and kids without this crap of a man... <p>Anyway..sorry I just want him to be who I want him to be, and he is not... the ow, would not even like the truth... sad... I am afriad, oh he will treat her better, not like he did me.. he is older now, and he is just giving up becuase I went through the harder drinking yrs... and it damaged our relationship...<p>Is that what you mean wat that ow is not the issue, drinking is... or is it me pushing relationship and ow talk... or sometimes H starts the talk and I jump on it.<p>Have not heard from h today, I am thinking he may of killed himself... see, I am totally freaking out... but actually, went to church, did some errands for work, took son to piano theory test, my dad is coming by right now to fix my stuck fornt door- then I am doing more work, taking rest and then more work... getting ready for busy week... so really there will not be as much time to worry about him... <p>Thursday night is when she came over,... I was invited over then, could not becuase of kids... and soooo he called her, and she came over... what is the deal with this man... can't have me, so lets have her... at laest for emotional suport or something!<p>thanks, I am not totally wacked, just a little stressed, or a lot stressed over this. I need all opinions I can get, as I am afraid to cut him out... as that will end chance for reuniting- or maybe it will wake him up, who knows...???<p>thanks - HONEY

Honey,<p>Just about all of us have said things like BrambleRose’s post to you over the last few weeks. Please read and reread these posts from others until it sinks in. I’m not even going to try to repeat any of it anymore. <p>You are acting like a victim. No one likes a victim, it will get you nowhere. You keep putting yourself in positions which expose you to being mistreated, then you get upset because you are mistreated. If it is not working, stop doing it. (Shaking you by the shoulder.)<p>One thing that is really helpful is to do some of your venting on tape recorder. Then, play it back a few times. You will start to ‘hear’ what we are talking about. It comes out loud and clear in you writing. I am sure it is ever clearer in your voice. <p>You need a complete make over on your approach to all of this… there is a very interesting thread that might help you….<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=014880<p>OK here goes…. Dateing your H 101…. (or a plan A with boundaries and a 180 change)<p>RE: got ANGRY because I would dare cry and ruin his $58 dollar dinner, he was treating me too, mind you, $15 of that is what I ordered at most... the rest his splurging on him...
OK, your H spent $58 and only $15 was your order. Rule of thumb, when you are out with a date, get a meal about equivalent to the one he got. Find out what he is ordering, that will set the tone for how much he can afford to spend. You don’t have to ask as date “how much is my limit”, let him set the price limit by his lead. By spending less then him you are saying…. ‘Poor little me… I’m not worth as much.”<p>When you ask him out (as you should do if you are Plan A’ing) then do the same thing. If you can only afford a hamburger, take him to a hamburger place. <p>My rule on dating, even with STL, is if he asks me out he pays. If I ask him out I pay. It’s an opportunity to treat the other. It feels good to be on either side of the date. I would never, ever date anyone who insisted on going Dutch all the time. I just think it’s petty and awkward at best.<p>Cut the whining, crying, pissing and moaning. Yes Plan A has boundaries; they are just a little looser then normal. If every time your H sees you, you are a downer. Or you are playing some game to show you win .. like the kiss in front of OW, you are a downer. Why would anyone want to be with someone who is doing this? Stop it already.<p>When you are on a date, or hanging out with him HAVE FUN, plan A your butt off. There are many things in this world to do that have nothing to do with your relationship… do them, talk about them. Make yourself interesting and mysterious. The woman he married was not the whinny Honey he is seeing now. A good marriage does not mean that a person lets it all hang out and inundates their partner with emotional rantings.<p>RE: and yes, I still need more money for me and kids... why splurge on appetizers, babystiters, and etc.. .when I am just a good time, who is not allowed to feel...<p>Oh please Honey, I know you need help with the kids. But if you have this attitude you will never get anywhere. Why splurge? Because the two of you have forgotten how to have fun together. Now and always, dates are one of the best investments that can be made in a marriage. Remember that a marriage and family are really all about the husband and wife. The children are a by-product of the marriage. <p>Learn to compartmentalize here. When you and he are on a date, enjoy it and forget your problems. Be the most charming Honey you can be. Plan A like crazy. Dress to kill. <p>Then when you have issues like child support to deal with, set a time to speak to him about the issue. The two have nothing to do with each other.<p>RE: the ow, would not even like the truth<p>What do you care what the OW likes. One thing you can do is to drop the word “OW”, her name and all thoughts of her. Do you realize that when you post here it seems that at least 50% of your discussion is about her? Take that time and energy and us it for yourself and your Plan A. If she were to drop dead today (OK I’ll be pc, if she were to drop out of the picture today.) you would still have the same problems. She is nothing to you. She is not the problem.. is incidental. A list of some of your problems:<p>1 - An alcoholic H
2 - An irresponsible H
3 - A belligerent and perhaps abusive H
4 – An H who may have a sexual addiction and is at best a serial adulterer<p>5 - Your temper and uncontrolled emotions
6 - Plan A’ing and Becoming a better Honey
7 - A failed marriage
8 - Your job situation
9 – Your children<p>Focus on the things that you have control over…. Items 1, 2 and 3 are out of your control. Let go of them. For these items set your boundary. Such as, will you take him back if he is still drinking? If he is still drinking but starts regular AA meetings? Or only if he’s been dry for 6 months? Set you boundary, let him know what the boundaries are, and keep them.<p>The others are things that you can influence, so concentrate on them.<p>RE: I am afriad, oh he will treat her better, not like he did me.. he is older now, and he is just giving up because I went through the harder drinking yrs... and it damaged our relationship...
Honey, he has made no great changes in himself. He is going to treat her the only way he knows how… that is the way he treated you. And not only that, alcoholics get worse with age.. the image of a happy drunk it a fallacy. He’s going to get sick early in life, he’s going to suffer many of the emotional and physical problems that go along with the decease. It may be hard to believe, but unless he stops drinking you have seen the BEST years of his life.<p>RE: Have not heard from h today, I am thinking he may of killed himself... see, I am totally freaking out... <p>And more melodramatics. Please stop it. This is not doing you any good.

Ok, sorry if I am a drag... I am only posting to try to figure out what to do.... I am sorry I am trying to do the right thing, and being in a marraiage to an alcoholic is very very difficutl.... and has been on me for a long time. I have gotten a better job and I can now support me and my kids without him, I start tomorrow... in fact I will now be making close to what he did...for a short time... he had a 6 month good job... that I hoped would last... but hurt that I have to be away from kids so much...<p>But we will live... I am exercising, I am calling him less. I am doig better... I am just confused on plan a with boundaries... it seems too loose for me... i guess.. the back and forth part is killing me... like the ok, lets date, ok lets see ow again... ya know?<p>OK, sorry to sound victimized, do not mean to.<p>I appreciate everyones help here... I really really do... not trying to be a whiner... I am trying to get it out here before I go crzy esleswhere... I guess I need to jsut vent in a diary and look at it, or to a taperecoreder.. I am rereading your posts.. everyone... I appreciate the help... it is just taking me time to come out of this... and yes, I am going back for more abuise... not on purpose.. I am going to see him, and then he does the contact... and tells me... I have asked for the truth... I am sick of lies... I do not want him to share... that is not a marriage to me.<p>thank you, honey [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]

honey,<p>This is the place to whine and get it out. <p>Maybe I was too harsh on you. My remarks were that if you are saying these things to your H, he will not react well to them. You can see that this is happening.<p>In addition I was trying to give you a kick in the right direction... Sorry if it was too harsh.

Honey ~ the best thing you can do right now for yourself and for your kids is to stick close to Al-Anon.<p>You don't describe a man worthy of your love. In fact, your posts describing your H make my hair stand on end. <p>So why do you "love" him?<p>Is it love? Or is it emotional dependency based on fear? What benefit do you get out of this relationship? Is your self love and self esteem and self respect so empty that you need THIS man to fill it up for you?<p>What is it that you fear?<p>Being alone? Not being good enough?<p>My H treated his OW far better than he ever treated me .... in some ways. He bought her expensive gifts, took her on vacations...stuff that he'd never done for me in 10 years of marriage.<p>But you know what? She never really knew him the way I know him because he is a compulsive liar. He lied about everything about himself. She thought he was something that he wasn't. <p>I know him as he is, good and bad, and I still find many many things to value in him. She never had that chance.<p>The fact of the matter is that you don't value yourself. And as a result, you are obsessed with him.<p>How do I know?<p>Because Honey - I've been there, done that, and lived to talk about it.<p>You believe your H's lies...because you want to. You don't want to face reality - so as long as his lies keep you comfortable in your own denial, you go along with it.<p>Your own behavior in this is incredibly disrespecting to yourself.<p>I was appalled at your post that bragged about kissing in front of the OW. <p>In recovery, ANY contact with the OW puts the WH back at square one. So why are you surprised that he contacted her after seeing her?<p>But besides that...your actions did nothing but enable your H. I mean seriously...do you really think the A has ever stopped? I doubt it.<p>What you did was simply play into his manipulation of you and his OW.<p>He was appeasing you...to keep you involved in his comfort zone...and he was sending a message to his OW...."Toe the line lady, or I'll go back to my wife"<p>Not only that...but don't you think it helped to pump up his ego having two women competeting for him?<p>So what do you fear? Write them out, because in your head, they look scary. Out on paper, in black and white, those fears lose their power. Talk back to your fears.<p>Honestly Honey ~ your H is a serious alcoholic. No amount of marriage counseling is going to fix this. Unless he chooses to get help for himself, this will probably continue.<p>I'm not going to advise you to dump him. No one can make that decision for you. But what you really need to do is fix HONEY.<p>I'm going to continue to be hard on you. Not because I'm mean, or trying to be mean. But because to do otherwise would enable your own illness that you are so clearly displaying online.<p>Go back to Al-Anon Honey, and get a sponsor and start to work that program as hard as you can. That's your hope for happiness.

thanks again, the kissing... well, the ow did not even see me at the bar, so I guess that was good, actually I was rather quiet and sat there while my h walked around asking about dart league sign up... wow, am I impressed.<p>Actually, I have since, yesterday, told him... and a few other times... I do not approve of hanging in bars, thisis awful for him , me and our kids... and his drinking issues... and the darts is a bad thing for him... because of it being in bars.... well, I am not going again, I am living my life...<p>I have lived my life before... and been strong... but I felt that this drove us apart, actually h got more responsible and better through it... better alanon.. but I have regressed since the affair. I have not been this weak forever... the affair has been my major downfall- I started to think, well if he wants to party, so be it, if that is what it takes to get him home... then we can dwindle the partying... <p>Well, I can't be a nothing, it is too much, and that is why my posting is so full of whining pain... I had to get it out... <p>Ifeel better, I appreciate you guys being hard on me, I have been to 3 alanon meetings this week, no sponsor yet, but working on it...<p>I have to get off to my new job this am, but will ck in if I can today or tongiht... I will be working hard now... no time for his antics anyway... and I am sick of them.. I need a spnosor, but am trying to choose carefully so I am attending lots of meetings first to see who I like...;<p>Anyway, thanks for the advice, yes... the alcohoilsm is rampant.. and I am sick of it.<p>HONEY [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]