As expected, after two hours my wife got up and walked out of the room with her blanket and slept on the couch. I normally go to bed by 10 but last night I waited and waited for the kids to go to bed. Why? Because they were there in the room with my wife talking or just being there. They were surprise to see me awake that late and finally they went to bed at midnight. I then went over to the room and gave my wife a goodnight hug and lied down next to her. Like I said, two hours later, she got up, left the room, and slept on the couch (no, she didn’t go to my room even though it was empty at that time). <p>Am I disappointed? Definitely. Am I surprise? No. Of course I went over to the couch and let her know that she could have her bed back. I moved back to my room and slept there. She continued to sleep on the couch until 7 this morning and moved back to her bed right after that. How did I know? I checked. She is sleeping comfortably in her room right now as I type.<p>The question is should I give up on trying or continue to try again like they said, “fake it until make it”. To her, this is not a big deal at all about this separate sleeping arrangement. I think the action speaks louder than word. If it was my snoring, then how could it be? I was still awake through out that two hours period. I might be sleeping, but still felt her tossing and turning every 20 minutes or so. I might have dosed off, but as far as I know I was still awake. I stayed on my side and didn’t even have any of my body touching her. <p>I couldn’t believe that it became an issue and I had to make an effort to be able to sleep next to my wife. It is almost like a joke and makes me feel like I’m a stupid person, if it is not the most stupid person on earth.<p>I guess it is over in that department and I should accept it and forget about trying again.<p>[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]<p>[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

I've been waiting for your update and I'm not surprised at the outcome. Like you, though, I'm disappointed for you.<p>I don't think you should give up. I don't think you will. But beyond that, I don't know what to recommend. This is all way past my personal experience level.<p>Maybe look at the current accomplishment and not focus on the long term goal? Small steps are necessary? I know you know this, but I understand your frustration that comes with the seemingly easy goal being so elusive.<p>You are not stupid, just extrordinarily patient.<p>WAT

Same thing happened to me, left me feeling hurt and rejected and angry. I left it for awhile and went back to my bed. But then I realized that it was an adjustment for me too, so maybe it would take time. I was lucky that a friend of his was going to stay the night so we needed the guest bed, so I made my move back into our bed, and it went much better this time. I vote for saying something light about how it was different to have someone else in the bed, and how it would take a little adjusting to. <p>Good luck.
Lora

extrordinarily patient....Indeed.....I feel for you OOOO. Throughout all this whole sordid affair my wife has continued to sleep with me. Even when she moved out she would still come over and spend the night once or twice a week. Had she not done that I may have given up long ago. <p> Fake it until you make it? Very hard to do when all you want is to be loved like a man should. <p> As Wat said. Small steps. However, were I you I would have to re-evaluate this lifestyle being imposed on you, daily. Ask yourself if you accomplished enough to make it worthwile to continue. <p> You have made some progress OOOO. It wasn't long ago that you were not allowed something as simple as a hug. <p> I wish you well.<p> jd

I'd go with keeping it up, sleeping arrangements are a funny thing, on one hand it is a very intimate thing (just being there) and so is fraught with "stuff" when marriage is conflicted...yet I know people (and you hear it all the time here) who are very conflicted, do NOT want to have sex with spouse, are emotionally disconnected, lay in bed like it is two seperate worlds, and I am like...Why in the world are you sleeping together? Well, I finally figured it out....the assumption is you have to have a "good" relationship to sleep in same bed, that is wrong....everyone needs to sleep, and you get "used" to your spot...so even if you hate your spouses guts, and are divorcing them tomorrow, it is quite possible you will still sleep in the same bed...why? cause it is your spot, nothing deeper than that, just habit. Now taken in reverse, your wife is "used" to her spot....alone. And you are upsetting her "spot"...mix in the emotional stuff, and not surprising she left...why? Cause she doesn't like you? Not necessarily, maybe just cause she was uncomfortable and wants to sleep, so she went to the "designated" back up "spot" in most homes...the couch.<p>a couple of suggestions in no particular order.<p>1. If she won't go for whole night, try (and talk about it) for getting a half night...agree that you will just quietly lie down about 2am and maybe that will work.<p>2. (Don't laugh...or cry at this one).... make a bed on the floor by the bed, at least that gets you in the same room, and has a surreal component to it that may prompt her to say this is silly sleep in the bed.. if she still leaves, the understanding is it is ok to take your portable bed and go near wherever she is. Try not to make this real serious or intense, make it kinda humorous if you can...but still important.<p>3. Both of you try to sleep in a neutral spot, but together...if no other beds big enough, camp out in living room, etc.<p>4. Make sure snoring is NOT an issue, if is, start verifying and dealing with it.<p>5. erect a wall between you of enough pillows and such so she can still "feel" she has a spot (albeit smaller).<p>Try to brainstorm all this stuff with her, try to make it a team effort, acknowledge up front it is kinda strange and silly but no one wants to make it oppressive and ugly...just see if you can get her to agree to ANY method of spending the night together in some kind of proximity together...pretend the ship sunk and you are alone in a small life raft etc. etc. BE CREATIVE.<p>6. Try and fabricate a reward of somekind, something both of you get to benefit from, to encourage motivation.<p>6a. Tell her MB'ers will post a reward of $100 if you two make it one night (for nice dinner and movie, or whatever she wants)....I am sure enough of us will chip in to do that [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>good luck, don't give up just yet, and try as best you can to make this a fun silly kind of atmosphere.<p>I could comment about how sleeping together and "fitting" someone works, and how it relates to successful marriage, and what to do if it doesn't work, and all that kind of stuff, but forget it for now, I think folks are tiring of my focus on deep motivations and such [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ps couple more<p>7. Get rid of one big bed, go to two twins, just like leave it to beaver and all the other 50's shows where married people did not sleep in the same bed.<p>7a. Bunk beds might work too.<p>[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

OOOO,<p>So you didn't give her a reason to leave?!??!? Like stinkin' up the covers? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Hm..... I spent the part of the night on the couch also..... but for that reason. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now I shared this embarressing moment with you to get you to at least crack a smile! Is it working? LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I understand the hurt. Sometimes I feel guilty like I am sleeping with a roommate or something. I told H that and for the moment he reacts with care. Almost like you have to jump start them to remind them to show some affection. <p>Where is that affection zapper?!?!?! LOL! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now here's a suggestion:<p>Later like in the middle of the day or something, ask her if you stink or something (let her check you out first) and when she asks why, say just checkin, then later come back and say I don't know what I did to make you go to the couch. <p>The secret here is when you ask her if you stink (she may not instantly relate it to the prior event and she may think you are asking about you right then and there), so she may need to get near you to take a sniff (does this sound too silly?!?! read on) and that is moment when she has to be closer to you. <p>By the way, make sure you smell nice but not to strong. Hey, this is a tried and proven test. It works!!! Just sounds silly on paper. When H said I smelled fine, I gave him a peck on the cheek and said, thanks! <p>I'll bet you all think I'crazy now..... oh well so you know some of my quirks. You already know a whole lot of other embaressing stuff anyway. LOL! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>JMHO and my crazy ideas!!! <p>L.

you know what i want to say!!!!

Hey OOOO,<p>2 Hours is better than what you had the night before! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Will you get another chance tonight? Go for three. Baby steps all the way. This is not out of the norm for her. Every bit of progress has been painfully slow. Make sure you don't LB on this.
GOOD LUCK!

Thank you all for your support.<p>worthatry
No, I will give up yet. You are right maybe I should take or look at it as baby steps, but I feel like I’m climbing Mount Everest here. I know I’m slowly getting there. <p>Lora,
It is definitely an adjustment for both of us. I understand that my wife might feel like an invasion to her domain here. After 11 years, it might take a long time to adjust to that. I know that I have to keep pushing on this issue with Lbing her. It is hard to do when she doesn’t see this as a big deal to her to just sleep separately. I hope she will realize that someday.<p>jdmac1,
Like you I might have given long ago too, if I were in your situation. But in my situation, I was OK with it for far too long that this abnormal became normal to my wife and even to my kids. It is not surprise to me if my kids see us stay in bed together as strange thing to do because as far as they have seen ever since they were born, mom and dad have never slept together in the same bed. My spot on that side of the bed was their spot for all these years.<p>Believe me JD, I’m evaluating my situation closely now and it won’t be long before I give up on it entirely. I know there were some progress so far, but the question is will I have enough patience to continue with this or not.
sad_n_lonely,
I definitely will keep it up as long as I’m still living here with her. There is nothing much to lose because I have already lost it all. It is only in a deep valley and how much lower can I get?<p>You are absolutely right about her “spot”, especially from the past two years, my wife got used to being comfortable sleeping by herself. However I don’t think she used that side of the bed at all even though she always maintains two pillows on that bed.<p>I will try your suggestions and see what happens. But lots of them are almost impossible for me to implement for now.<p>Orchid,
Part of it was that my wife was not ready to be sleeping next to me yet. I hope when the time comes it will not be an issue at all. I know as far as she is concerned, a simple hug should be enough for now. That alone, to her, she made a progress to be able to hug me back. She did tell me that she has tried, but her feeling for me has not come back yet.<p>LOL! Funny, my wife used to mention to me that I stink sometimes, especially after a long day working out side my yard. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to try your suggestion. The problem is I have certain allergic reaction to almost every perfume. Sometimes I have to hold my breathe when walking passed the cosmetic area in the department store.<p>sing,
Yep, I know what you wanted to say. Hey! Nothing is wrong with that. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Cleopatra,
That’s right two hours is better than nothing at all. Well, unfortunately I didn’t go for another chance last night. I was so exhausted after playing the snow fight with my kids and by the time my wife and my kids got ready to go to bed I was “snoring” [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] already. I intended to go to her room and sleep there next to her, but I didn’t make it. I did mention that to her in the evening that I might sneak in there and be next to her. She didn’t seem to have any negative reaction to that comment. The only thing she said was if she couldn’t sleep she would be on the couch again.<p>You are 100% right about this is not out of the norm for her. Every progress has always been an effort on her part (that’s what it seemed) because every effort is against her self-centered behavior. Somehow in her head, it is a losing battle instead of a compromised thing to do. <p>Go for the third night? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I didn’t even make it the second night. Maybe I will try again tonight since Monday is a holiday. <p>BTW, since my kids will go to their friend's birthday party tonight, my wife mentioned to me that she wanted to go see the movies for just the two of us and maybe having dinner after as well. I said to myself, wow! that's a change, but then she later said that she was afraid her siblings would call and come over for dinner like they usually do almost every Sunday evening. I guess she has enough with them too. I don't know why. I was the one who do the cooking anyway. Yeah! She ended up doing the cleaning sometimes.

This calls for drastic action, take the phone off the hook NOW, so they can't call....and leave EARLY go shopping or something then dinner and the movies, just get GONE so the relatives can't find you!!!! Or heaven forbid, if they do call, tell em you have plans tonight. (and make sure you and wife know you are the only one answering phones today).

Well? Did you make it out of the house?
By all means, take every opportunity that you get to "practice" the new sleeping arrangment.
Practice makes perfect!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Gosh OOOO,
I'm really sad to read this because I had high hopes and expectations for you since you got invited back to "her" bed...<p>The kinda sort of bright side is that she didn't kick you out, she left instead, right? Yikes...<p>Now, this is what I think you did wrong that you could have done differently. I know, coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't solve anything, but just some food for thought, okay?<p>When you noticed that she got up, why didn't you yell, HEY! Where are you going?!? What's WRONG?! Did I snore? Did I touch you? What? Come back, don't leave!!<p>OOOO, you gotta TALK!!! ASK QUESTIONS!!? Instead of just lying there and thinking and assuming and wondering and feeling rejected? If she left because you snored, I don't think you should feel rejected because you couldn't help it! If she left because she didn't want to sleep with you, find out exactly why? Maybe SHE has bad gas or something? It couldn't have been because you are taking up too much room since the couch has much less room than one side of a bed!<p>Okay, so you are probably right that you dozed off for a second and snored. What is the harm in her wearing some earplugs? I mean after all, it's going to take some adjusting on both your parts, but I think it's doable... Don't give up yet tho. Keep trying! & MAKE YOURSELF TALK!!!!

sad_n_lonely,
Unfortunately, it was a little too late to get away from her side of family. Her siblings didn’t come over for dinner, but her parents called and asked us to go and have dinner with them at their house. I was somewhere with my son buying birthday gift and when we returned my wife said that we were going to dinner at her parents’ house. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The good part about it was that the kids left to the party at around 4:00pm and my wife played the dancing videotape that she borrowed from the library and we practiced together. They were swing and ballroom dancing tapes and she needed partner to practice with.<p>We had a good time dancing around for two hours. At one moment we felt really connected and we seemed to make it right together with all those swinging moves. Of course we went to her parents’ house after that.<p>I guess this was her way of trying to be connected with me in term of physical so far besides, the hugging before I go to bed.<p>Cleopatra,
Like I said to SNL, Yes I did get out of the house but only ended up at her parents’ house. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well, I didn’t make to her room the third night either. I did mention to her I’d like to try again last night, but she said once a week should be enough for now and we should try it again next week. (This reminds of our sex life before d-day, the once a week thing). [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] You know I would take the once a week thing with her if it were sex. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] That’s a light year away anyway.<p>BINthereDUNthat,
Yeah! It was sad for me too, but I knew that already. Yep, she left and slept on the couch for 4-5 hours. I shouldn’t have left her room, but then again she would sleep during the day anyway. My wife loves to sleep. If she wasn’t hungry, she could sleep all day.<p>Well, I did say something to her right after she got to the couch. I said, “you couldn’t sleep, huh!” She nodded her head and I said she could have her bed back and left to go to my room.
Well, I might have dozed off for a second or two and snored. That’s how she claimed. But the main thing was that I don’t think she was ready to have me next to her yet. I have not mentioned the earplugs yet. I don’t think she would buy that. Anything that is inconvenient to her becomes a negative thing for now, especially if it has something to do with me (conveniently me).
I will keep trying until the cows come home. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hmmmmm - can you manage the sleepover in her room on a night after you have had dance practice??? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by cleopatra:
<strong>Hmmmmm - can you manage the sleepover in her room on a night after you have had dance practice??? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>great advice<p>also nag, nag, nag, nag,<p>Plus,think about where you were a yr ago, even 6 months ago, I know you are tired but look how far you have come.<p>have a goo wk